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Noctua NH-D14 Horrible Performance Beaten By Cogage True Spirit Need Help 56K Warning - Page 2

post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbalt89;12490427 
So, let me get this straight. You lapped your cpu and old Cogage True Spirit at the same time to use together, which works. Now you want to use a lapped cpu with an unlapped NH-D14 that was micro-contoured to the shape of stock, non-lapped cpus. Amiright?

If so it's not the heatsinks fault. You can't lap one without the other. Also unless that's unflattering light it doesn't look like you did a great job lapping the cpu to begin with. Could just be me though.

Also NT-H1 is better than AS5 and doesn't have a curing time.

I'm the first to agree that the lapping is not spectacular. I went for more of a form follows function lap. I went for flatter over shinier. Don't get me wrong though, I spent many, many hours on it.

corei7lapped.jpg

I did a recent revision on it to lower the middle as I had some rounded over edges, but I haven't uploaded pictures of that yet. It's maybe a little flatter now, but not as shiny.

I was hoping to get away with not lapping the Noctua. When I sat the cpu on top of the base of the Noctua to check for compatibility, it looked much better than when I did the same with Cogage. You can only see light shining through right at the edges. The Cogage and CPU basically met in the middle and you could see lots of light on either side. You could slightly rock the cpu from side to side on the heatsink. The Cogage is still convex and I'm surprised it worked as well as it did comparitively. The Noctua base is much flatter than the cogage, but it's also textured, which is kind of a letdown. I was really hoping to avoid lapping more. It's really not fun and I'm definitely not going to do it until the return period is up.
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post #12 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the constructive criticism and ideas guys. I appreciate it. I'm hoping when I remount, I'll see that I did a crappy job this time and I'll do better next time.
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post #13 of 23
Well you see how you said you can see light in certain places around the edges on the NH-D14? That's because the CPU IHS is not entirely flat in itself from the factory so Noctua took that into consideration and tried to make the surface plate match as well as they could to the curvature of the IHS. But now that you have altered the surface that it was meant to mate to you have metaphorically put a stick in the spokes.

I wouldn't suggest trying to wait out the warranty period on the NH-D14 as it's 6 years I believe. Lol.

Also Noctua claims that the base of the NH-D14 is not mirror finish because micro-grooves allow for better spreading of the TIM as to minimize air pockets upon installation. Or something to that effect.
Quote:
Why doesn't the bottom of the NH-U coolers have a polished, mirror like finish?
Bearing in mind that the majority of today's PC enthusiasts uses high-viscosity thermal compounds, the bottom-surface of the NH-U coolers is optimised for the use with this type of thermal pastes. The micro-grooves on the surface of the NH-U coolers' base ensure that high-viscosity thermal compounds are dispersed to a uniform thin layer across the whole contact area and that no air pockets remain between the cooler and the CPU. With a polished, mirror like surface, the risk of uneven dispersion is much higher. As too thick layers of thermal paste and air pockets drastically deteriorate heat transmission, the micro-grooves are is of vital importance to the overall cooling performance of the NH-U coolers when used with today's high-viscosity thermal pastes.
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post #14 of 23
Wait wait wait...
I'm not trying to insult anyone here, but these supposed comments concerning the Noctua leave me slightly baffled.
Almost all HS are somewhat concave/convex, and lapping is supposed to remove that for maximum contact with the CPU. Yet when it's noted that the same is true of the Noctua, it's apparently because it fits the CPU better?
Same with the "microgrooves". On other heatsinks it's an indication of a shoddy factory lap, yet it's somehow beneficial on the Noctua?
These all may be real, truthful points from Noctua, but I get the feeling they might just as well be a bunch of hogwash excuses for Noctua's being roughly the same as other HS in the manufacturing process.
I mean, why is the base of my H50 "badly lapped", while the Noctua has magical "microgrooves" that supposedly make things work better?
Once again, I'm not trying to insult anyone's opinions, but it seems like a mighty big coincidence that Noctuas intended features so closely mimic other manufacturers poor processes.
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post #15 of 23
1. lapped CPU vs non lapped heatsink
2. even you said that lapping is more to one side (so lapping ist entirely flat)
3. cover whole CPU with TIM - that almost you see CPU through TIM

but what can be biggest issue->
CPU is little bit smaller after lapping, noctua doenst have push pins and you can screw noctua just that much that screws allow you to - so there is maybe not that good contact between CPU and noctua
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post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeeyee;12496032 
but what can be biggest issue->
CPU is little bit smaller after lapping, noctua doenst have push pins and you can screw noctua just that much that screws allow you to - so there is maybe not that good contact between CPU and noctua

I think you're onto something here. I was wondering if I was getting good enough pressure as it's not really hard to cinch down. I reseated the heatsink tonight. When I pulled it off, it actually looked like I did a good job last time. The TIM was in a nice even circular pattern that reached almost to each edge of the heatspreader. I had some small rubber O-rings that I put between the screws with the large heads and the back of the X-bracket (retention plate?). This effectively lowered the Noctua mounting brackets closer to the motherboard resulting in more pressure. I tried a line pattern of NH-1 TIM this time. I may have actually put a little more than last time. I'm through 8 runs of IBT at 3.8 GHZ right now and the maximum core temp so far is 67 C with an ambient temp of 22.4 C. Max for each core is 67 65 65 63 for an average of 65. It's definitely an improvement.

+ Rep for everyone!biggrin.gif
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post #17 of 23
I have no issue with NH D14 since 2010..
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post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by breenemeister;12503838 
I think you're onto something here. I was wondering if I was getting good enough pressure as it's not really hard to cinch down. I reseated the heatsink tonight. When I pulled it off, it actually looked like I did a good job last time. The TIM was in a nice even circular pattern that reached almost to each edge of the heatspreader. I had some small rubber O-rings that I put between the screws with the large heads and the back of the X-bracket (retention plate?). This effectively lowered the Noctua mounting brackets closer to the motherboard resulting in more pressure. I tried a line pattern of NH-1 TIM this time. I may have actually put a little more than last time. I'm through 8 runs of IBT at 3.8 GHZ right now and the maximum core temp so far is 67 C with an ambient temp of 22.4 C. Max for each core is 67 65 65 63 for an average of 65. It's definitely an improvement.

+ Rep for everyone!biggrin.gif

glad to hear that...so now you have non lapped heatsink runnning on lower RPM? with better temps than lapped heatsink

i would say good job smile.gif
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post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 
I ran Prime 95 small FFTs overnight and all day today (over 17 hours). Ambient temps ranged from 20.3C to 23.6 C. Max temps on all cores were 70 68 68 68 for an average of 68.5. That 70 is still a little higher than I'd like to see. That core represents a delta of 46.4 C above ambient. Average across all cores is a delta of 44.9. I dug through some of my prior cogage results and found that on February 15th, I ran Prime 95 small FFTs at ambients from 22.1 to 26.6. Max on all cores were 72 69 70 69 for an average of 70. That's a delta of 45.4 on the hottest core and a delta of 43.4 across all cores.

So, in terms of Prime 95, I still did better with the Cogage with high CFM fans. It looks like I've paid $90.00 for slightly worse performance with slightly quieter operation. The Gentle typhoon case fans have always been the loudest part of the computer. I know I can get better temps with louder higher cfm fans, but for $90.00, I really wanted to have my cake and eat it too. I may monkey with it one more time. Is slightly quieter operation worth $90.00 and a slight hit on temps? I guess everyone has their own answer on that one. I bought this stuff in hopes of clocking to 4.0 GHz plus, but I think the temps are going to be out of my comfort zone. I know lots of people think that the 70s are fine, but I really want to stay in the 60s.

I'm getting frustrated with this PC because everyone else seems to get much better performance out of everything in terms of temps....especially with this $90.00 cooler.doh.gif
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post #20 of 23
still: lapped CPU vs non laped heatsink..that's your problem.
you saw what have made rubber O rings, so maybe there is still no good contact.

and different temps that other user have could be because they have different cases etc.
I had zalman gs1000 with 3x12cm outtakes,1x12cm intake and 1055T@3965 wih D14-> 3fans setup@800RPM->57-58C

now I have raven 2 evolution (3x18cm intake,1x12cm outtake) and 1055T@3965
with D14->2fans setup@800RPM->51C


and as you wrote you have changed high CFM fans for lower CFM fans and still you have now better temps...and it is logical, put high CFM fans on D14 and you will go down to 65C
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