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[CVG]Killzone 3 doesn't max out PS3 - Guerrilla - Page 11

post #101 of 118
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Originally Posted by scyy View Post
My bad too, I kinda got pissed off when you said "*sigh* you misunderstood me completely. Why do I even bother with people on here anymore? Waste of time." And I just went from there without really rereading your posts. Now that I have reread through everything I get what you were saying.
People love to be quick to respond to my posts, and miss the point - alot of them get super hostile too. Reason being I said that to you about nothing bothering was because I just got out of another thread about multiplayer graphics where similar occurred: they misunderstood a key point to my argument. It's funny because I look back now and they disregarded it still even after everything, so thanks for at least even trying. I take back anything negative I said toward you
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post #102 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
People love to be quick to respond to my posts, and miss the point - alot of them get super hostile too. Reason being I said that to you about nothing bothering was because I just got out of another thread about multiplayer graphics where similar occurred: they misunderstood a key point to my argument. It's funny because I look back now and they disregarded it still even after everything, so thanks for at least even trying. I take back anything negative I said toward you


lol, it's all good, I can get myself really worked up sometimes when posting and realize later it was completely uncalled for.
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post #103 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
And I pretty much proved that in every way possible, especially with the case of MMOs.
You proved absolutely nothing (this referring to what we have talked about in the other thread), but I'll concede since it's like arguing with a mule.
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post #104 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
You proved absolutely nothing (this applying to what we have talked about in the other thread), but I'll concede since it's like arguing with a mule.
What you just said in that thread is about 20 times worse than what scyy did. At least scyy had a legit reason for misunderstanding what I said. I kinda mumbled two topics into one and it made my main point unclear to him.

You just made up something as if all my posts were based off of something I said at the beginning of the entire thing, which is completely untrue. This is hilarious.
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post #105 of 118
I know you're ultra-reply was to a bunch of ppl and I'm gunna mainly just concentrate on ur reply to me but, also gotta throw in a couple other stuff re: replies to some other ppl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
Sorry for the late response.
Anyways - resolution matters. I never said it didn't. But if the assets don't back it up, then it doesn't make that big of a difference as you people make it out to be. That's my point.

Like I said before - Dead Space 2 can be rendered in a resolution as big as the side of a house and it's still Dead Space 2 with Xbox 360 graphics no matter how you twist your words. I said this before word for word. You can have your baby butt smooth lines all you want to - it doesnt change how the game looks overall period.
I disagree. It does change it. The textures while not much better are better in that DS2 comparo u showed. Some1 else mentioned you could read the name badge on the PC for instance. Part of how a game looks is also how it moves. If it has a silky smooth frame rate that looks more natural & better than if it's struggling or has chugging during action. There are also draw distance, lighting, AA/AF & resolution. These are all improvements even if the textures are exactly the same.

Quote:
AA and higher resolution do matter. I never said they don't, but you guys make them out to be so much more then what they are. Developers see this and go "oh they don't need higher resolution textures or special effects or DX11, they're happy with they can just play the game and have their AA."
I'm glad you're at least acknowledging that it matters & does make it look better. You just have a difference of opinion on how much better, which I can respect even if i disagree with it.

Quote:
I might have overexaggerated when I said they do little to nothing, I don't mean they don't do anything at all. But they just dont change how a game looks. Ok it's better, but how much better? You might reason a ton better in your opinion but that just means you don't know what better really CAN BE.
Yes, there are games that could look a lot better on PC, but the developers didn't put the effort into it for one reason or another. My guess, budget. Publisher says we expect to sell this many on console, put effort in that. Not all games are like that though.


Quote:
Don't get me wrong, Dead Space 2 and Mass Effect 2 are good looking game. But they don't look anywhere near as they COULD BE. Having 16xAA and higher resolution is not bringing the game to it's potential. It might make the game look "nicer" but it's how significant is what I'm questioning. You guys make a big deal out of it, Im saying that it isn't and there is a whole lot more room for improvement and not showing or saying that is what keeps developers from standing back/not putting their best foot forward.
Yes, again it's a problem with the industry. Maybe you're right & PC gamers should be more vocal about expecting more from their games; but like you said they're not ugly games for the most part. & it's not all PC games which that happens to, just some. For instance, Fable 3 was announced for PC recently; sure it's coming out way after the 360 version but I'm just happy it's coming out. Because if it didn't come to PC i probably never would buy it. If it's a horrible port though I just won't buy it; it's not like there's a shortage of PC games this year. I vote with my wallet.

BulletStorm
Dragon Age 2
Homefront
Darkspore
Crysis 2
Assasin's Creed: Brotherhood
Shift 2
Portal 2
Duke Nukem Forever
The Witcher 2
Brink
F.E.A.R. 3
Dungeon Siege III
Hunted: Demon's Forge
Red Faction: Armageddon
Alice: Madness Returns
MAX PAYNE 3
Spec Ops: The Line
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
Tropico 4
Rage
Ghost Recon Future Soldier
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Batman: Arkham City
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Mass Effect 3
Bioshock Infinite
Tomb Raider
Deus Ex Human Revolution
Diablo III
Guild Wars 2
Battlefield 3
Warhammer 40k: Space Marine


Quote:
AA does matter to an extent. Having smoother edges is great, dont get me wrong. But it just doesnt make a game look any better necessarily in my eyes. Im not going to choose a game between PC and 360/PS3 over just AA. What really gets me going are the people who sit there and say,"Oh well this game looks better on the PC because of AA and resolution. PC FTW - it kicks console butt."
NO - no it doesn't! What really kicks console butt is when you have better textures, shaders, DX10/11 effects like tesselation, better level design, solid multiplayer, and about a dozen other things. AA and resolution are like.... standard. They're the bare bones minimum and dont make a game look a ton better. It's like bragging that you run a race with .1 or .01 seconds photo finish.
No1's saying it looks a million times better. Just better. Which it does, always; even on the games which are bad ports. On games which get good PC treatment you get more visual effects, better textures, better frame rate, better draw distance, higher resolution, more geometric & texture filtering, etc... Which add up to a much better looking game. How you can have better level design I'm not sure what you're refing, if it's the same game it should have the same levels.

Quote:
Thank you because I've yet to see a single person agree to that in the entire forums whenever I bring up ME2 on the PC. They ignore the one thing that is the WORST about the game. I mean, I garuntee Bioware has a massive resolution raw videos in their datacenter somewhere that would take 5-10 minutes each to convert into decently compressed but super nice looking videos. I mean, I know Xbox 360 data storage was small but even the 360 they could've done it not even counting the PC. I would know, I've been playing with video codecs since I was like 10. It's just unthinkable why BO couldn't do it, even on the PS3 version they didn't even bother. That just makes me depressed lol
I agree 100% with this. BINK is a cancer on video game video, no idea why they still use it. KZ3 even uses it, when sony's own h.264 would have been free & looked a lot better. Makes no sense.

Quote:
Nor do I deny that raising the resolution improve aliasing. What I'm trying to say is that aliasing isn't everything and in the end - even with 18xSSAA or w/e the only thing you're changing are the edges of models and with some types of AA for the worst. You're not really changing the way the game looks at all.
But I would argue that it does change the way the game looks. It makes it look sharper, no upscaling. So the mipmaps aren't all super high resolution in the game you happen to be singling out; some are higher. Look at this screenshot. Arm is ugly sure, but look at the gun. Look at the smoothness of the head, no jaggies. Look at the sharpness of the buildings in the background.
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc5tn1p.jpg

And this one, look at the rock textures. doesn't look all super horrible
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc4nut7.jpg
Quote:
Right there in BIG AND BOLD AND UNDERLINED do I more or less say that increasing resolution does not "enhance" textures like you keep claiming I'm saying. IE - making stuff up.
It makes them less blurry because there's no image buffer scaling. Sure the game is scaling them, but that looks a lot better than having a frame buffer scaled.

Quote:
Exactly my point, because those two games are RAVED about by people for being great looking games on PC. This entire forum absolutely loves ME2 and every conversation about PC vs console uses ME2 as an example, and it's so far from true it's not even funny. I'm just used to saying it all the time, and this convo happens alot (not about the same thing though). It's not because Im wrong about ME2 being a console port either, because people think ME2 looks so good they have a hard time believe the consoles put out similar if not exactly the same as their amazing PCs. Sans AA and resolution. They refuse to believe the textures being the same resolution, and they love ignoring the cutscenes.
I dunno, I thought ME2 looked good. Yea, it could have looked better but it didn't bother me. I've never heard people raving about it like it was Crysis but that's beside the point. It seems like it's just a red herring to detract from the simple fact that no matter what developers do to "push the limit" on console it's never going to approach what a good PC game can accomplish visually. Even crappy PC ports still look better, as marginal as some are it's still better. That was my whole point.

Anyway, here are some more ME2 pics from PC. Still think there's no diff between console?

http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc20mia.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc29szg.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc38pio.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc5qq5s.jpg

and since yous said BC2 looked the same on PC & console too here are some of that
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8167/bfbc22.jpg
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8420/bfbc2s.jpg

Here, lets look at a game with textures for a change.
the requisite crysis
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6179/cry3.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...151986/4-5.jpg

How about these. Can you tell any difference between the console version?
Fallout New Vegas
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/7...lloutnvpc2.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1...lloutnvpc4.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1...lloutnvpc5.jpg

GTA4 on PC at 720p
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8417/95155467.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1391/88438705.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1904/73843766.jpg
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9490/33511883.jpg

NFS:S
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2451/shiftpc10.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2561/shiftpc11.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5964/shiftpc2.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2046/shiftpc3.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4219/shiftpc5.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/134/shiftpc12.jpg

Mafia 2
http://www.abload.de/img/mafia22010-08-2916-38-mjif.jpg
http://h-7.abload.de/img/mafia22010-08-2815-41-82kd.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/mafia22010-08-2815-17-h335.jpg
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1263/mafia2pc2.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4112/mafia2pc6.jpg
http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=m...16-39-nmvm.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/mafia22010-08-3002-40-yw7k.jpg

Transformers: War for Cybertron
http://www.abload.de/img/twfc2010-09-0401-01-09ssmh.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/twfc2010-09-0400-56-01zr9x.jpg

Quote:
Not true at all.
It might be heavily developed for consoles, but it doesn't mean they are designed good graphically for consoles.
Same thing with Halo 3 and ODST. Those two games were developed by Bungie specifically for the Xbox 360, and they looks TERRIBLE graphically. It took Bungie how long to finally get to the 720p resolution and actually make a decently good looking Halo game with Reach. Even when Halo 3 came out, I could think of a dozen different games even on the 360 itself that blew its ass out of the water in every aspect.
Same with CoD4 and BO. They both look "nice" on the console (well Black Ops only on the 360 for no reason at all) but they don't look as good as they should when you compare it to other games. Why does BC2 look amazing on the 360 and PC and it runs at 720p when Black Ops barely runs at 640p or w/e in the 600 range it is? It makes no sense at all [even with the FPS difference], BC2 looks YEARS ahead of Black Ops and it runs at HD resolution with no problem.
Well, the guys at Digital Foundry disagree with you and they're pretty knowledgeable on console tech (RSX/Cell Xenos/Xenon ups & downs/tech tradeoffs & capabilities). Very active over at Beyond3D as well. I agree halo wasn't exactly super impressive, but from my understanding the reason is because they made the game for draw distance, frame rate, & HDR lighting. The console can only do so much because of the eDRAM size limitation, no matter how fast the eDRAM is. & yes BC2 does look great; DICE is great. BF3 will look good im sure as well, but it will look light years better on PC as well as have 64 player and dedicated servers (P2P is garbage).


Quote:
KZ3 looks miles ahead of BO, especially on the PS3 (for reasons that explain itself). Why under achieve for 50FPS on a game that could, and should really, at 30FPS and look worlds better though? Many bring up the FPS argument, but that's for PC not on the console.

Though, I will admit I did forget the FPS difference in my previous post. Mainly because on the 360, I remember alot of FPS drops and tearing in singleplayer. That would indeed explain the sub resolution.
I don't understand how you can think KZ3 looks "miles ahead" of BO on console but say that PC versions of console games look almost the same. the diff between PC versions and console versions are, for the most part, WAY LARGER than KZ3 & BO on console. See my previous links for proof. KZ3 looks good for the PS3, there's no denying that. But again, consoles are limited by their tech & that's why I initially said people bickering over it are like bums fighting over whats better jack daniels or jim beam, while i'm sipping on Johnny Walker blue label. Not to sound like an elitist dick or anything lol


Quote:
But it can look alot better on the consoles had they just run it at 720p and raised some effects, score for 30FPS instead of 50 like every other game. There isn't any reason for it to be so damn crappy looking on the consoles.
The reason is because of the console's hardware limitations. If it were 30FPS it wouldnt be the same game. the whole point is the higher frame rate, the multiplayer in CoD doesnt work otherwise. It's twitch gaming (if you can even call it that w/ a control pad *shrug*).
    
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post #106 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by pale_neon View Post
I lol'd.
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post #107 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by pale_neon View Post
I know you're ultra-reply was to a bunch of ppl and I'm gunna mainly just concentrate on ur reply to me but, also gotta throw in a couple other stuff re: replies to some other ppl.
I disagree. It does change it. The textures while not much better are better in that DS2 comparo u showed. Some1 else mentioned you could read the name badge on the PC for instance. Part of how a game looks is also how it moves. If it has a silky smooth frame rate that looks more natural & better than if it's struggling or has chugging during action. There are also draw distance, lighting, AA/AF & resolution. These are all improvements even if the textures are exactly the same.
There are no draw distance or lighting improvements in DS2. The shadows are ~somewhat improved due to AA but even that is a stretch if you look at alot of the screenshots. The quality seems to vary from scene to scene.

Quote:
I'm glad you're at least acknowledging that it matters & does make it look better. You just have a difference of opinion on how much better, which I can respect even if i disagree with it.

Yes, there are games that could look a lot better on PC, but the developers didn't put the effort into it for one reason or another. My guess, budget. Publisher says we expect to sell this many on console, put effort in that. Not all games are like that though.
But the problem is that most of this has nothing to do with budget. 30 more minutes to recompress 3 different cutscenes shouldnt cut into budget.
Perhaps taking the time out to make sure higher quality textures would - but that's the problem. When people make a big deal out of AA and resolution, then devs dont think textures matter. When they do. I only concentrate on textures because they're the easiest things to point out. You also have shaders, graphical effects (resolutions and their sizes), draw distances, animation complexities, and so on.


Quote:
Yes, again it's a problem with the industry. Maybe you're right & PC gamers should be more vocal about expecting more from their games; but like you said they're not ugly games for the most part. & it's not all PC games which that happens to, just some. For instance, Fable 3 was announced for PC recently; sure it's coming out way after the 360 version but I'm just happy it's coming out. Because if it didn't come to PC i probably never would buy it. If it's a horrible port though I just won't buy it; it's not like there's a shortage of PC games this year. I vote with my wallet.
Sure, they're not ugly. And we should appreciate that they're even on PC for PC gamers to even experience. I HIGHLY agree. You have no idea because I hate it when PC gamers complain about the tinniest things when they're forgetting they can even play such great games on the PC.

But when I see threads like this where people have to bring up how games on the PC have better AA and resolution, and they act as if it makes the games look totally different - thats when I have to throw my posts at them or even if they're not posting that but the thread is heading that way: it needs to be said in my opinion. Having better AA and resolution is standard. It comes with the PC territory and it's nothing to brag about.

Quote:
BulletStorm
Dragon Age 2
Homefront
Darkspore
Crysis 2
Assasin's Creed: Brotherhood
Shift 2
Portal 2
Duke Nukem Forever
The Witcher 2
Brink
F.E.A.R. 3
Dungeon Siege III
Hunted: Demon's Forge
Red Faction: Armageddon
Alice: Madness Returns
MAX PAYNE 3
Spec Ops: The Line
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
Tropico 4
Rage
Ghost Recon Future Soldier
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Batman: Arkham City
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Mass Effect 3
Bioshock Infinite
Tomb Raider
Deus Ex Human Revolution
Diablo III
Guild Wars 2
Battlefield 3
Warhammer 40k: Space Marine
There are a good number of PC games coming out, especially ones that look amazing. I never really denied this. But no one is to say how they pair up to their console (if applicable) counterparts.

Quote:
No1's saying it looks a million times better. Just better. Which it does, always; even on the games which are bad ports. On games which get good PC treatment you get more visual effects, better textures, better frame rate, better draw distance, higher resolution, more geometric & texture filtering, etc... Which add up to a much better looking game. How you can have better level design I'm not sure what you're refing, if it's the same game it should have the same levels.
Well - I meant singleplayer and multiplayer wise and things like that by level design. Sometimes games, like Crysis 2 for example, seem to be developed with the console limitations in mind and not with the capabilities of the PC also in mind.
And trust me, there are people that will and have gloated about games like ME2 being a fantastic PC game graphically and it proves that consoles suck blah blah blah when there is nothing to brag about. They act like it's a million times better and believe it too.

Quote:
I agree 100% with this. BINK is a cancer on video game video, no idea why they still use it. KZ3 even uses it, when sony's own h.264 would have been free & looked a lot better. Makes no sense.
Bingo. Although, KZ3 does a better job at doing it then ME2 thats for sure. Then again, they only used like 40GB of space. The hell?

Quote:
But I would argue that it does change the way the game looks. It makes it look sharper, no upscaling. So the mipmaps aren't all super high resolution in the game you happen to be singling out; some are higher. Look at this screenshot. Arm is ugly sure, but look at the gun. Look at the smoothness of the head, no jaggies. Look at the sharpness of the buildings in the background.
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc5tn1p.jpg

And this one, look at the rock textures. doesn't look all super horrible
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc4nut7.jpg
It makes them less blurry because there's no image buffer scaling. Sure the game is scaling them, but that looks a lot better than having a frame buffer scaled.
But the same textures as the rock ones you're showing can be found on the consoles in the exact same quality. That's my point. And those tattoos on the her arm is exactly the kind of problem I mean when we talk about low resolution textures and having a higher resolution being rendered. They look pretty darn blurry/pixely compared to everything else.

Im also pretty sure if I went onto my 360, and went to that same point in the game - I'd be able to see those same buildings in the background with the same quality as everything else in the game is. Minus the jagged edges which we've covered.

Quote:
I dunno, I thought ME2 looked good. Yea, it could have looked better but it didn't bother me. I've never heard people raving about it like it was Crysis but that's beside the point. It seems like it's just a red herring to detract from the simple fact that no matter what developers do to "push the limit" on console it's never going to approach what a good PC game can accomplish visually. Even crappy PC ports still look better, as marginal as some are it's still better. That was my whole point.

Anyway, here are some more ME2 pics from PC. Still think there's no diff between console?

http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc20mia.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc29szg.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc38pio.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/me2pc5qq5s.jpg
I cant comment on the DLC pictures as I've never played it on any platform but this picture in particular:
http://h-4.abload.de/img/me2pc5qq5s.jpg
Looks strikingly similar to the same clarity you can find on the 360, sans AA. And even then, without as much AA, it isn't TOO bad as compared to having none at all.

Quote:
and since yous said BC2 looked the same on PC & console too here are some of that
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8167/bfbc22.jpg
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8420/bfbc2s.jpg
[/quote]

Not quire sure what's trying to be shown here.
BC2 has some extra cool effects on the PC though, especially the radiosity SSAO or w/e it's called. My point was that the textures for example are the same as the 360. In fact, even the AA method deployed is the same where it gives a fence effect on the edges of models especially trees.

Open world games are the single, utmost, and biggest exception to where PC gaming will always come out on top and is a big deal. There is a reason why none of this has been mentioned before, especially in a Killzone 3 thread none the less.

Without the proper RAM - Fallout nor GTA can even be remotely compared to the consoles. It's just no argument to be had. That, and the fact that Fallout in particular is poorly designed on the consoles as well. If EA's Assasin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood can be pulled off on the 360, and ESPECIALLY the PS3 where it looks super close to 360 even though it has less reading speeds on the drive and less RAM, then why can't Fallout? I dont even want to delve into the multiple problems I have with Fallout even being talked about. GTA4 is truly a game that can only be played on the PC, yet alone any open world game.

Never played so I cant comment really.
Although, I highly recommend playing some GT5 to compare with those. And I dont mean the crappy block model cars in the beginning of the game

Open world.
Played it on the PC but not consoles, but judging from the Eurogamer comparison and what I recall - the only problem with this game on the consoles is the draw distance on the 360. The PS3 has less or lower textures too, which is understandable considering it has even less RAM and read speeds again.

I wouldn't know that game either.

Quote:
Well, the guys at Digital Foundry disagree with you and they're pretty knowledgeable on console tech (RSX/Cell Xenos/Xenon ups & downs/tech tradeoffs & capabilities). Very active over at Beyond3D as well. I agree halo wasn't exactly super impressive, but from my understanding the reason is because they made the game for draw distance, frame rate, & HDR lighting. The console can only do so much because of the eDRAM size limitation, no matter how fast the eDRAM is. & yes BC2 does look great; DICE is great. BF3 will look good im sure as well, but it will look light years better on PC as well as have 64 player and dedicated servers (P2P is garbage).
I'm a fan of both DF and Beyond3D incase you havent read most of my news posts around here on OCN. I dont actually post on either but Im big big readers of both.
But DF doesnt disagree with me on alot of stuff, particularly the fact that games like DS2 aren't anything too spectacular port wise. Even the BC2 comparison, they said PC looked better but they questioned alot of the porting especially the AA hex fence effect on the 360 and PC but not PS3.

Quote:
I don't understand how you can think KZ3 looks "miles ahead" of BO on console but say that PC versions of console games look almost the same.
I never said the PC version of BO looks the same. It's infinitely better in almost every regard. BUT my problem with it is that it's graphically poor on the consoles when there are so many other games that have so much more going for it.

[qupte]
the diff between PC versions and console versions are, for the most part, WAY LARGER than KZ3 & BO on console. See my previous links for proof. KZ3 looks good for the PS3, there's no denying that. But again, consoles are limited by their tech & that's why I initially said people bickering over it are like bums fighting over whats better jack daniels or jim beam, while i'm sipping on Johnny Walker blue label. Not to sound like an elitist dick or anything lol
[/quote]

You NEVER get anything as amazing as this in Black Ops on both PC and consoles.


That's not the only scene in KZ3 that looks mind blowingly good either, especially when you have it in a single screenshot rather than in motion. I saw alot of scenes in that game in my straight 8-9 hours of gameplay that made me go "Woah - they did that while I'm actually playing in a non-cutscene?"
Quite alot of destruction physics in the game as well you'd be surprised. Sadly, most of BO is completely and utterly static and boring graphics wise. Literally throughout the game - you get nothing new or amazing. The only part of BO that was graphically impressive was the ending of it with all the water. The reflections of the water were pretty darn awesome look when running through the stage (even though the water doesn't react to anything even slightly). But even that brings the FPS down to like less then 20 on the 360 when it shouldn't. Designed right, like Uncharted 2 for example with even better water, it wouldn't have done that at all.

Quote:
The reason is because of the console's hardware limitations. If it were 30FPS it wouldnt be the same game. the whole point is the higher frame rate, the multiplayer in CoD doesnt work otherwise. It's twitch gaming (if you can even call it that w/ a control pad *shrug*).
Hm - I dont think CoD at 30FPS would make a difference in the slightest to be honest. There are plenty of twitch games, Killzone 2 and 3 even has some twitchiness to them if you play mostly guerilla deathmatch. I never really thought of CoD though like that and how it might change till you brought it up like that. Maybe, but I personally doubt it. No one sits there and says - oh it's 3 frames to shoot like it is to punch in say Street Fighter.
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post #108 of 118
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Originally Posted by pale_neon View Post

i wish pc my pc ran flawlessly but it so happens that it goes through many, many problems.
post #109 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
There are no draw distance or lighting improvements in DS2. The shadows are ~somewhat improved due to AA but even that is a stretch if you look at alot of the screenshots. The quality seems to vary from scene to scene.
I wasn't referring to DS2. The only thing i was reffing in DS2 was that some1 pointed out you could actually read the nametag on PC, but console was all blurred. The rest of everything i said was applying to PC games in general.

Quote:
But the problem is that most of this has nothing to do with budget. 30 more minutes to recompress 3 different cutscenes shouldnt cut into budget.
Perhaps taking the time out to make sure higher quality textures would - but that's the problem. When people make a big deal out of AA and resolution, then devs dont think textures matter. When they do. I only concentrate on textures because they're the easiest things to point out. You also have shaders, graphical effects (resolutions and their sizes), draw distances, animation complexities, and so on.
It could have to do with the game's engine for all we know. Which would have a lot to do w/ the budget, they're not going to redesign the game's engine. Streaming in textures is the big thing on consoles because of their amazingly crappy amount of RAM. Also using cut scenes to load the next level of games is also becoming common, maybe that's why they use BINK because it uses less CPU cycles & they want those cycles to load whatever in the background. I'm not sure, but it's possible.


Quote:
Sure, they're not ugly. And we should appreciate that they're even on PC for PC gamers to even experience. I HIGHLY agree. You have no idea because I hate it when PC gamers complain about the tinniest things when they're forgetting they can even play such great games on the PC.

But when I see threads like this where people have to bring up how games on the PC have better AA and resolution, and they act as if it makes the games look totally different - thats when I have to throw my posts at them or even if they're not posting that but the thread is heading that way: it needs to be said in my opinion. Having better AA and resolution is standard. It comes with the PC territory and it's nothing to brag about.
It does look totally different for a lot of games. Night & day different. Remember how you were just complaining that you didn't think BO looked good enough on console? Well, it looks better than most console games. See my point?

You seem to be focusing on a couple PC games which got bad ports from console and the couple console games which were designed exceptionally for the hardware. It appears as if you're attempting to skew & not being objective.

Try looking at all games that come to console & PC. I listed a bunch of examples & you seem to be trying to make excuses, like it's because it's open world or some such. As if it's irrelevant because it doesn't fit into your argument.

Quote:
There are a good number of PC games coming out, especially ones that look amazing. I never really denied this. But no one is to say how they pair up to their console (if applicable) counterparts.
For the most part, they always look better. It's pretty much the rule, again my point. Just because you have found a couple which have some stickling points doesn't change the fact.

Quote:
Well - I meant singleplayer and multiplayer wise and things like that by level design. Sometimes games, like Crysis 2 for example, seem to be developed with the console limitations in mind and not with the capabilities of the PC also in mind.
Crysis 2 isn't even out yet. What are you on about?

Quote:
And trust me, there are people that will and have gloated about games like ME2 being a fantastic PC game graphically and it proves that consoles suck blah blah blah when there is nothing to brag about. They act like it's a million times better and believe it too.
Well, again that's beside the point. If you're trying to use that as some justification as to why you decided to make ME2 your focus; disregarding other games which clearly look much better on PC that's a pretty convenient reason.

Quote:
But the same textures as the rock ones you're showing can be found on the consoles in the exact same quality. That's my point. And those tattoos on the her arm is exactly the kind of problem I mean when we talk about low resolution textures and having a higher resolution being rendered. They look pretty darn blurry/pixely compared to everything else.

Im also pretty sure if I went onto my 360, and went to that same point in the game - I'd be able to see those same buildings in the background with the same quality as everything else in the game is. Minus the jagged edges which we've covered.
1) no the textures wont be the same (even if they're exactly the same files), if you're looking at a 1080p TV because the upscaling will blur them slightly, always. & 2) you wouldnt get as smooth geometry on 360 because it simply cant draw that many pixels.

Quote:
I cant comment on the DLC pictures as I've never played it on any platform but this picture in particular:
http://h-4.abload.de/img/me2pc5qq5s.jpg
Looks strikingly similar to the same clarity you can find on the 360, sans AA. And even then, without as much AA, it isn't TOO bad as compared to having none at all.
if you were to display that exact image on ur 1080p TV w/ the 360 for example, fine detail like the stitching on the headset probably wouldn't even show up because of the blur introduced by the scaling. You keep concentrating on the ugly unproportional textures like their arm tattoos & ignoring the textures which look sharper because they're not stretched over such a large area. Whatever, i'm giving up on the ME2 argument anyway; the more attention I give it the more you feel free to argue it's the rule and not the exception.

Quote:
Not quire sure what's trying to be shown here.
BC2 has some extra cool effects on the PC though, especially the radiosity SSAO or w/e it's called. My point was that the textures for example are the same as the 360. In fact, even the AA method deployed is the same where it gives a fence effect on the edges of models especially trees.
What's being shown is clarity of the image. Look at it, it's sharp, smooth, clear, refreshing to the eyes. compare it, yes BC2 looks good for a console game. But that doesn't mean it looks the same as on PC. Keep in mind also that when the image gets scaled for the console it will blur it, so it will look worse than the 1:1 that you're looking at on your monitor right now, whereas the PC version will look just as sharp & clear.





Quote:
Open world games are the single, utmost, and biggest exception to where PC gaming will always come out on top and is a big deal. There is a reason why none of this has been mentioned before, especially in a Killzone 3 thread none the less.
Because it doesn't have to do w/ ME2 textures & that's all you seem to care about? lol i kid i kid. But, saying that open world games are the "exception" as if other games are the rule is ridonkulous. It's just part of the rule in general.

Look. Here's BulletStorm. It's not an open world game.
PC
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/...letstorm-5.jpg
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/...letstorm-1.jpg
http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/...letstorm-3.jpg

I can't find any actual screengrabs from console just bs promo shots, but I think it's safe to say it's not going to be able to match it no matter how good it's optimized.

Quote:
Without the proper RAM - Fallout nor GTA can even be remotely compared to the consoles. It's just no argument to be had. That, and the fact that Fallout in particular is poorly designed on the consoles as well. If EA's Assasin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood can be pulled off on the 360, and ESPECIALLY the PS3 where it looks super close to 360 even though it has less reading speeds on the drive and less RAM, then why can't Fallout? I dont even want to delve into the multiple problems I have with Fallout even being talked about. GTA4 is truly a game that can only be played on the PC, yet alone any open world game.
"Without the proper RAM" Therein lies the truth; consoles are dated. They don't have the "proper RAM" anymore & there's nothing that can be done about it. Which is why they seem so old & busted in my eyes.

Quote:
Never played so I cant comment really.
Although, I highly recommend playing some GT5 to compare with those. And I dont mean the crappy block model cars in the beginning of the game
I've had GT5 since launch day. & I bought the Driving Force wheel when it came out a year before that. But I havent even taken the game out of the shrinkwrap yet. It's kinda depressing to think about. That's how disinterested I've become.

Quote:
Open world.
Played it on the PC but not consoles, but judging from the Eurogamer comparison and what I recall - the only problem with this game on the consoles is the draw distance on the 360. The PS3 has less or lower textures too, which is understandable considering it has even less RAM and read speeds again.
you say Open world almost dismissively, as if it made the example irrelevant. So many games are open world now, most of them are. The only thing I can think of that's not are sports, racing & fps. But even FPS is open world to some extent now, as far as your reasoning goes (large environments).

Quote:
I wouldn't know that game either.
Don't have to know it, just look at the screenshots; it's fairly obvious it's WAY more detailed than a console could ever hope to achieve. & it was released on consoles as well.

Quote:
I'm a fan of both DF and Beyond3D incase you havent read most of my news posts around here on OCN. I dont actually post on either but Im big big readers of both.
But DF doesnt disagree with me on alot of stuff, particularly the fact that games like DS2 aren't anything too spectacular port wise. Even the BC2 comparison, they said PC looked better but they questioned alot of the porting especially the AA hex fence effect on the 360 and PC but not PS3.
They also said BO was a great job on console & that if the 360 version didn't exist the PS3 version would be critically acclaimed as an exclusive. You obv dont agree w/ that. As well as the PC version blows them both out of the water. & you seem to ignore just how much better BC2 looks on PC because it's not perfect, the AA. DF said the MSAA in KZ3 looks good in the organic environments but causes pixel crawling on long edges; I dont see you pointing that out anywhere & you only post the organic environment SS from the article but not the one next to it where they compared the pixel crawl.
Quote:
It's fair to say that there is both good and bad. On the jungle campaign stage, the results are absolutely phenomenal: uncannily good in fact, with virtually no edge-aliasing issues. The MLAA post-processing works beautifully in adding to the organic feel of the level. However, on the more industrial stages, the hard edges and something akin to a specular sheen produces a pixel-crawling effect that is not ideal.
It just seems like you have a pattern of nitpicking small things & trying to make them big when it suits your pov but ignoring the same small details when it doesnt.

Quote:
I never said the PC version of BO looks the same. It's infinitely better in almost every regard. BUT my problem with it is that it's graphically poor on the consoles when there are so many other games that have so much more going for it.
again, like i said; here's somewhere else you disagree w/ DF. I already quoted them so I'll just leave it be & again point out that most console games look not so great. BO looks better than most.

Quote:
You NEVER get anything as amazing as this in Black Ops on both PC and consoles.
Well I haven't even started KZ3 yet so I have no idea what that's a screenshot of. Looks weird to me though, I'm not even sure what I'm looking at. Maybe you could enlighten me, what part of that pic is supposed to look better? The lighting? The textures? The FoV? The draw distance? I'm not sure i get it.

Quote:
That's not the only scene in KZ3 that looks mind blowingly good either, especially when you have it in a single screenshot rather than in motion. I saw alot of scenes in that game in my straight 8-9 hours of gameplay that made me go "Woah - they did that while I'm actually playing in a non-cutscene?"
Quite alot of destruction physics in the game as well you'd be surprised. Sadly, most of BO is completely and utterly static and boring graphics wise. Literally throughout the game - you get nothing new or amazing. The only part of BO that was graphically impressive was the ending of it with all the water. The reflections of the water were pretty darn awesome look when running through the stage (even though the water doesn't react to anything even slightly). But even that brings the FPS down to like less then 20 on the 360 when it shouldn't. Designed right, like Uncharted 2 for example with even better water, it wouldn't have done that at all.
Well a lot of people actually thought Uncharted/Uncharted 2 rendered amazing at some parts but it was really video that was made using in game assets. All the non-playable scenes were. I'm not saying the game doesnt look good, it along w/ GoW3 & KZ3 (im assuming I still havent started it) are the best looking PS3 games out; again this furthers my point you're comparing the absolute best a console game can look to the absolute worst a PC port can look. Not really being objective there.

Quote:
Hm - I dont think CoD at 30FPS would make a difference in the slightest to be honest. There are plenty of twitch games, Killzone 2 and 3 even has some twitchiness to them if you play mostly guerilla deathmatch. I never really thought of CoD though like that and how it might change till you brought it up like that. Maybe, but I personally doubt it. No one sits there and says - oh it's 3 frames to shoot like it is to punch in say Street Fighter.
Well i can tell you w/ 1,000,000% certainty that 30fps for CoD games would be a game changer. It may not seem like a lot, but 30 to 60 fps does show. For me 60 is necessary, i aim to have that my min frame rate in games. & when Acer finally releases the GN245HQ I'll be building my next rig w/ the goal of 120fps, which coincidentally is the cap on packets per second in BO.
    
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post #110 of 118
Bottom line:
Games made to work for Console have lower texture resolution all from the beginning.
Resolution will only remove jaggies but the textures are still low/mid-end graphic wise.

The only way to fix this is to mod the game (Like Oblivion for instance).
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