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[Youtube] Battlefield 3 Premiere Gameplay Trailer - Page 28

post #271 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
Those .5 second clips of distorted gameplay look pretty nice.

This isn't a "gameplay" trailer.
I agree. This is a cinematic trailer, not a gameplay trailer.
post #272 of 325
My GOD.
    
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post #273 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyboyd View Post
I agree. This is a cinematic trailer, not a gameplay trailer.
It's not cinematic. That is in-game footage. Yes, it looks that good.
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post #274 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Microsis View Post
It's not cinematic. That is in-game footage. Yes, it looks that good.
But it only highlights cinematic moments, not core gameplay ideas.

I'm not hating, but it is 90% ooooh ahhhh and 10% gameplay.
Edited by _02 - 2/24/11 at 8:44am
    
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post #275 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
But it only highlights cinematic moments, not core gameplay ideas.

I'm not hating, but it is 90% ooooh ahhhh and 10% gameplay.
this. we want some solid gameplay video NAO
post #276 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgins View Post


Seriously though, with 12 core server processors and the amount of ram we can cram into a single box i hardly think that games like BC2 and BF3 are pushing the limits. Maybe if you tried to run a certain number of CS:S servers on one box, and compared it to another box running the same number of BC2 servers there would be a difference. That said, BC2 and CS:S server loads may be very different but that doesn't mean that BC2 servers are "too much to handle" for server providers.

I'd actually give you some slack if we were back in 2005 and they released BC2 instead of BF2, but this is 2011 and we have more than 2 core servers to play around with.
Clearly someone has zero, none, nadda experience hosting or even renting your own server. Get back to me when you do, then call me a troll. Do you even know what a troll is? Clearly not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAHOP240 View Post
No, its not graphics. How do you determine that to be graphics? It's not graphics because no matter what resolution or shader setting or AA setting you set your game to, the water is still going to react. Even if there was some setting in your video control panel to say "turn water effects off", the engine will still register that your bullet hit that part of the texture map, it just simply wouldn't display an animation for that registration.

Graphics has to deal with rendering. Physics calculations are completely separate from that.
You've got to be kidding me.
Graphics are not just AA or shaders or textures. It's everything that encompasses visuals. Physics that are related to visuals are graphics. Realistic water effects are graphics no matter how you twist it. It's being rendered, even though it's being calculated by your CPU.

If I use your logic, then magically the effects we're talking about only becomes "graphics" with something like PhysX simply because we're changing the means of it being processed. Your logic is broken fundamentally from the start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
These destruction sequences are predetermined. They are not random. You blow a hole in the wall at the same place, the hole will look identical to the last time you blew a hole there unless there is some kind of randomization of different looking holes. All that gets communicated between the clients is that there is now a hole in the wall. The debris spraying outward from that hole being created is purely superficial. It doesn't knock people in the head and kill them. There's absolutely no point in communicating it's location. A sequence is triggered client-side from "x" event happening, and it just happens.

If something consequential happens, like a part of the wall turning into some kind of ramp leading into a building, this is still prescripted and isn't "figured out" or calculated real time. Same with buildings collapsing.

All of what you're saying just goes against common sense here.
[/quote]

That's not true for all buildings. Parts of the building do get strewn from it when, say, you blow it up with a bomb plant. I've been stopped before by a rock that has tumbled from it in MP.
You also just proved my point. The destruction physics in MP are toned down compared to SP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriplePlay View Post
If it is the SAME installation of the SAME game running on the SAME system (not just a system with the same specs, but literally the exact same computer)? Yeah, they should perform the same. As in Battlefield 3campaign/single-player vs. Battlefield 3 multiplayer.

Then go play Crysis online and offline. It proves you wrong right then and there.

Quote:
I don't think lighting would be handled by the server. It shouldn't have to synch up with all the players. Basically, the map has all the light sources in it. Then it tells everyone where they are. Which is NOT difficult or stressful, that's no more than sending the coordinates of an object and then a bit of data saying what the object is. Then, every PC will render that the same, because the light is coming from the same source. The game just has to have previously told (and continue telling) where objects are, and then the game adjusts light particles going into and around other objects. If they actually code it such that the server handles all the light paths, then that's poor coding. It only has to send the locations of the light sources, and then send info on the locations of other objects (which it will be sending data for all of those objects regardless of dynamic lighting or not).
If there is dynamic lighting, like for example - in Crysis there is a time of day value, as that value changes - the server has to communicate that to all players at all times. Otherwise, everyone will see something different. No one here said that the server would be actually rendering the light for players like you seem to think I said lol


Quote:
No, never thought that. Don't know where you got that from.

60 man CS:S servers? The hell? Haha. I mean I'm aware that they are out there, but I never actually see them.
How not? We used to do TDM, Warcraft, zombies, breakrooms, and tons of other game modes with 60 man. They were the bomb Gets hard to moderate when not playing though. Do yourself a favor and never become a clan leader or founder unless you have some IRL friends to do the managing.

Quote:
That said, that's not my point. I understand that games are stressful on servers. My point is that I don't think increased graphics in a game will INCREASE that stress all that noticeably much on the server.
Ok - lets look at MMOs then for a second. Notice how there has not been a single MMO that actually looks super nice graphically? They all either have a cartoony look or if they go for realism there are major drawbacks graphically to them. The nicest MMOs to date are FFXIV and Age of Conan and Ayon. All 3 of those games don't even compare to regular games. They don't look anywhere near as nice. It's not because they're open world games either. FFXIV is quite small for an MMO, it's not even finished.

Why is that? Why isn't there an amazing looking MMO if graphics don't increase stress noticeably on a server? Obviously it does.

If you played FFXIV on launch, you'd know that it's clear that graphics have an amazing impact on the server. Increased graphical effects and things like draw distance throws more values at a server that the server has to relay back. Multiply those values by 30 to 60 to 100 to 1,000 players like in MMOs and you've got more information than your server can handle no matter how big and bad it might be.

Lets look at FPS games that have online co-op. Why don't those games look nice when you can co-op online? They look way worse then the singleplayer or if they don't, then the singleplayer itself looks bad (ie every Halo game). There has to be a reason for it. It can't possibly be anything but graphics.

Killzone 3 is another example. Online multiplayer co-op is considerably worse looking than singleplayer. The animations are much tighter and smaller, the details on everything is taken back, and FPS rates are down to the low 20s most of the time. Why? Because it's online sharing information with one another and the servers.

Quote:
This discussion was about the multiplayer graphics being worse than single-player graphics. As in the game not looking as good in multiplayer as it normally would in single-player. As in quality of textures, models, lighting, particle effects, draw distance, and things of that nature.
But I never specifically said something like textures.
And draw distance is a good one. Thanks for bringing that back up again. Have you not noticed that in almost every single game that goes online to date that the draw distance is SUPER taken down as compared to singleplayer? Every single game to date that goes online - draw distance is absolutely terrible when you go online. Things pop in and out all the time over super long distances (another noticeable thing in Crysis). Because, the server can't communicate everything thats happening to every single player at every single time, especially players.

Smoke is a typical effect for multiplayer that covers up long distances that normally wouldnt be in the single player portion game. Hazes as well.


Quote:
I'm not saying that those things don't affect it, but I'm saying that could the servers not handle it if there wasn't some sort of problem? There's no doubt that map size, number of players, and destruction physics will cause stress (not sure what you mean by model size, but that might too).
For the tank exploding, that's true to an extent I'm sure, depending on how realistic and detailed they want to calculate physics. What pieces they want to blow off, if you can even blow pieces off.
By model size - if you look at games like BF2142, Killzone 3, or FEAR 2 where mechs are involved in gameplay: there is a significant lag to them. Especially the Titans in BF2142, which is why every commander should only move the Titan once and only once in a game because it tends to lag the entire server is some way. There is a reason for that. The server has to move that entire model to a certain spot and anything in it. Which is why when you board the Titan, the commander can no longer move it. The server couldnt possibly move the Titan and any players in it correctly. Everyone would fall out or clip in, server wouldnt be able to move everyone in realtime.

Back to the mechs - these gigantic models are being moved around and they tend to be jerky or laggy. The server has more information to provide to all the players in the game rather than just a tiny little person. These mechs take up more space, therefore more location data. They also tend to have different moving parts, so their hit box isn't just a gigantic block thats moving. The server has to track them as well.

And reloading animations and things like that shouldn't be stressful at all, as it just sends info that says "hey, this guy's reloading, use animation 2" and then your PC plays reloading animation 2.


[quote]
Quote:
Or if it's just an explosion animation and then it gives damage based on how close you are to the explosion, then that's not going to be stressful at all, as it would just tell your computer "hey, that tank exploded" then your computer would show that.
you're underestimating the actual "tell your computer". You make it sound simple, but you're forgetting you need to multiply that by 30 or 60 players. Then it becomes pretty darn complex once you factor in the account that the same exact thing is happening with every little thing that's happening in the game. You reload your gun, server needs to tell everyone he's reloading and reloading which gun so they can display that animation.

Have you ever had it where someone goes to switch their gun and then kills you even though you didn't expect it because on your screen he was just swapping his gun? Because the server couldn't keep up with you and send the connection faster then he could locally switch his gun and shoot you. Happens all the damn time, pisses me off to no end. The server isn't fast enough to keep up with a simple switching weapon animation yet alone everything else in the game.


Quote:
No doubt that more interactive and dynamic objects are more calculations, but that's quantity, not quality. Adding more objects is not increasing the graphics quality if you ask me.
Quantity always effects quality my friend. Always.

Quote:
Character model animations is a good one, that would probably be a bit to process. But I'm not sure what they could change in the quality of that between single-player and multiplayer. Then again, I don't know how they handle things like that. If they handle it with pivot points from joints like elbows and hips and knees and thatnot, then trace lines between the points and then surround it with filler for the "body" region around that frame, then it might just be constantly sending coordinates anyway, regardless of complex or simple animations. But it could be something else entirely, I do not know.
Well, notice how games are alone just getting things like sliding or rolling options in games. Even then, when in motion in multiplayer, it tends to lead to either a delayed or laggy experience when you see someone do it.


Quote:
I hope that's not the case. But we'll find out, I have it pre-ordered as of today (well, yesterday since it's almost 2AM where I am now...)

I do see where you're coming from, and it doesn't seem implausible, I just think it won't be quite as bad as you make it out to be. And a lot of it just has to do with how the data is handled, which I have no idea how it is, I can just speculate as to what seems most logical to me.
I'm waiting for STEAM to let me preorder. I gotta get it, as a heavy BF2 and BF2142 addict, it's my required effort to preorder lol

Gameservers are alot more complex then what we're describing. I mean, I didn't design these things so I can't explain exactly what they're doing but it isn't just communicating values to other players. Most games, when you host then on a server, require the entire game and all of its assests to exist on the server. It isn't just running some cmd and saying the game is being hosted - the server loads up all of the game's textures, maps, models, ect to some extent.
We'll just have to wait and see. I just highly doubt what we see in these tiny little 5 second clips are anything to judge multiplayer by.
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post #277 of 325
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Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
That's not true for all buildings. Parts of the building do get strewn from it when, say, you blow it up with a bomb plant. I've been stopped before by a rock that has tumbled from it in MP.
You also just proved my point. The destruction physics in MP are toned down compared to SP.
I didn't prove anything you said. What I said applies to both single and multiplayer.

You're thinking that every little thing that happens on a person's screen in multiplayer is communicated and synced with all clients. That simply isn't true. Only things that matter are communicated. Whatever rock or rubble you are walking over (ie. any rock that actually has collision), was predetermined to go there before the explosion or destruction ever happened. That animation of sorts is triggered by an event.

Then, apart from debris that actually has collision when you walk over it (makes you go up), pretty much everything else is superficial. These things do not knock people in the head as they fly through the air. They have no collision. Communicating their point in space is entirely useless. And most of it actually disappears after a predetermined amount of time. All of this takes place solely with the client.

Whether or not anyone has their detail settings maxed out or turned all the way down makes no difference in what gets communicated between clients through the server. That is your entire point, and it is just wrong.
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post #278 of 325
Looks amazing :|

Cant wait
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post #279 of 325

Not sure if this has been posted yet.
post #280 of 325
Damn! I'm blown away! Not only that DICE even said they refused to do a console port. This is a BUY for me!
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