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[Youtube] Battlefield 3 Premiere Gameplay Trailer - Page 30

post #291 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
n00b, more like. Why bother with those people? Gasp, could it be someone is wrong on the internet?!
Blastphemy! Omega is never wrong!
    
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post #292 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
You've got to be kidding me.
Graphics are not just AA or shaders or textures. It's everything that encompasses visuals. Physics that are related to visuals are graphics. Realistic water effects are graphics no matter how you twist it. It's being rendered, even though it's being calculated by your CPU.

If I use your logic, then magically the effects we're talking about only becomes "graphics" with something like PhysX simply because we're changing the means of it being processed. Your logic is broken fundamentally from the start.
Wow. My logic is flawed? It seems that you aren't able to distinguish the difference between physics and graphics. Let me see if I can break it down for you. Lets take a look at another game: Batman AA

UE3 is a GRAPHICS engine. PhysX is a PHYSICS engine. UE3 determines how objects on a screen will be rendered and PhysX determines how these objects will interact. If you're telling me that the graphics of that game are BETTER when PhysX is turned on, then you're understanding of what graphics are is fundamentally flawed.

Realistic water affects have two parts, how the water interacts with its environment and how that water looks while its interacting.

For example. If you have a cup on a desk and its being rendered using Ray tracing and dynamic lighting and shadows, it will LOOK outstanding. If I were to shoot that cup and it simply falls off and behind the desk, the physics of that cup aren't real good. However if I shoot that same cup and it shatters into 10 peices and each peice falls and bounces around the desk and shatters into more pieces, the physics of that cup are done really well.


Frostbite is a graphics engine with built in algorithms to handle physics. Therefore it will be impossible for DICE to "tone down" the physics in MP since they're using the same exact engine. The ONLY thing they can do is use less destructible surfaces but the GRAPHICS of both the SP and MP will be the same.

Several members and myself have tried to explain this to you but it seems that you are being stubborn or you simply can't grasp the idea that graphics and physics are two totally different aspects of a game.
post #293 of 325

I prefer this video:

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post #294 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
I didn't prove anything you said. What I said applies to both single and multiplayer.

You're thinking that every little thing that happens on a person's screen in multiplayer is communicated and synced with all clients. That simply isn't true. Only things that matter are communicated. Whatever rock or rubble you are walking over (ie. any rock that actually has collision), was predetermined to go there before the explosion or destruction ever happened. That animation of sorts is triggered by an event.
Actually, the majority of what happens on a person's screen is communicated and synced with all clients at all times and with practically everyone. You reload a gun, that animation action start is then sent to the server then to everyone else playing, so that the other people can see that on their screens too! The same concept is applied to practically everything. Take all of that, multiply it by 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60 times (might depend on who's in range as well), you've got a loaded server!

Quote:
Then, apart from debris that actually has collision when you walk over it (makes you go up), pretty much everything else is superficial. These things do not knock people in the head as they fly through the air. They have no collision. Communicating their point in space is entirely useless. And most of it actually disappears after a predetermined amount of time. All of this takes place solely with the client.

Whether or not anyone has their detail settings maxed out or turned all the way down makes no difference in what gets communicated between clients through the server. That is your entire point, and it is just wrong.
I know not all of it is actually tracked and communicated by the server. I never said this, but when pieces do go flying that aren't superficial as you claim - then its tracked by the server. If you don't think anything does, then you're wrong.
The same thing is applied to any interactive objects in a game. Their models and its position is tracked by the server. In CS:S - you shoot that garbage can or chair, the server tracks its reaction, movement, and final resting place and communicates it with all people in the game all in realtime. Otherwise - you wouldnt see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microsis View Post
I hear you. Remember this is the first glimpse of actual gameplay they have released - of course it's going to be a tease.

I assure you they will do what they did with BC2 with the "battlefield moments" videos - closer to launch. In fact I would be surprised if they didn't.
Exactly. It's not going to look as good. Not saying it won't look good, but not as amazing as they make it out to be - both SP and MP. Especially MP. It NEVER is. Ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
n00b, more like. Why bother with those people? Gasp, could it be someone is wrong on the internet?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgins View Post
Blastphemy! Omega is never wrong!
I've been proven wrong with a bunch of things before, but only unless I'm proven wrong do I actually accept it. No one here has proven anything other than speculate rather than actual experience with servers in the past, and gave any tangible form of proof. Yet, none of them have apparently tried Crysis online it seems or any other PC game that isn't just multiplayer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAHOP240 View Post
Wow. My logic is flawed? It seems that you aren't able to distinguish the difference between physics and graphics. Let me see if I can break it down for you. Lets take a look at another game: Batman AA

UE3 is a GRAPHICS engine. PhysX is a PHYSICS engine. UE3 determines how objects on a screen will be rendered and PhysX determines how these objects will interact. If you're telling me that the graphics of that game are BETTER when PhysX is turned on, then you're understanding of what graphics are is fundamentally flawed.
I was using PhysX in my post because someone said that just because the data is handled through the CPU that leads to the display of the graphics makes it not graphics. PhysX handles the same information (the physics) through the GPU - therefore making it graphics in his broken logic.

Quote:
Realistic water affects have two parts, how the water interacts with its environment and how that water looks while its interacting.

For example. If you have a cup on a desk and its being rendered using Ray tracing and dynamic lighting and shadows, it will LOOK outstanding. If I were to shoot that cup and it simply falls off and behind the desk, the physics of that cup aren't real good. However if I shoot that same cup and it shatters into 10 peices and each peice falls and bounces around the desk and shatters into more pieces, the physics of that cup are done really well.
And therefore it LOOKS BETTER because there is a realistic reaction by shooting the cup. The visuals are not only realistic (an adjective commonly used with visuals or graphics), but amazing as well. They're graphics.

It's like in Dead Space 2 - physics are being calculated regarding gravity or the loss of it during times of the game. Sure, they're being calculated through the CPU - but as a result you're getting a visual display of objects or enemies or even the player in zero gravity. They're graphics no matter how you want to twist or turn it. Hell - physics even can be gameplay mechanics as well if you're like Valve who wants to take weighted blocks and turn them into puzzles. Physics can be applied to alot of things, included visuals which therefore would make them too apart of the graphics in that case (ie BC2).

Quote:
Frostbite is a graphics engine with built in algorithms to handle physics. Therefore it will be impossible for DICE to "tone down" the physics in MP since they're using the same exact engine. The ONLY thing they can do is use less destructible surfaces but the GRAPHICS of both the SP and MP will be the same.
Wait a second - you honestly don't think there are values that can be feed to the graphics engine to tone down physics and such? XD that's GOLD. You can easily tell a game engine to do different forms of physics, tone it down and such. Especially in a game like Crysis for example - there are a ton of mods and configs that mess with the physics of explosions and water. Hell, I think there was even an explosions physics mod on the freakin front page of OCN earlier today LOL

You need to seriously tinker or read with game engines more before responding. Go play with Crysis or CS:S configs or even just the command lines of them, even if it's offline, before talking more about this subject.

And again - you keep saying the graphics of SP and MP being the same. Do yourself a favor and play a game like Crysis online. No one of stopping you - I told you what to do, and you ignore it yet continue to argue. It's funny.

At this point: I don't care what else you try to argue. I've more or less repeated myself about a dozen times over, just rewording stuff now. You can respond all you want to - wait for the game to come out and get back to me. Hold me to it if you want to - if I'm wrong and the MP looks as good as this SP and/or the video, I'm not going to pretend we never had the convo.
I've gotten bored with the back and fourth of the same information 12x over and over - with nothing being progressed so far. We're still at square zero, just now we're fighting about physics not being graphics which is beyond me at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
lol freakin hilarious
I saw a similar one for Dead Space 2's trailer, think its the same guy.
Edited by OmegaNemesis28 - 2/24/11 at 11:20pm
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post #295 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
Actually, the majority of what happens on a person's screen is communicated and synced with all clients at all times and with practically everyone. You reload a gun, that animation action start is then sent to the server then to everyone else playing, so that the other people can see that on their screens too! The same concept is applied to practically everything. Take all of that, multiply it by 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60 times (might depend on who's in range as well), you've got a loaded server!
I know a reload is synced between clients. Reloads have never been mentioned.

We were specifically referring to graphical entities that are not present until you start to increase the graphical detail. A magazine clip or the action of reloading is not one of these things. Let's not take this into left field here.

Your entire point is that people who turn graphical detail up cause server lag because things that are now on their screen has to now be synced between clients through the server.

My entire point is that this is false. There's no point in reposting what I've said up to now if it wasn't understand the first time.
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post #296 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
I know a reload is synced between clients. Reloads have never been mentioned.
You're kidding right? Refer back to my past posts please - I've mentioned it like 3 to 4 times. You respond to me, act like I'm out of my mind, yet didnt even read them clearly. It's too much.

Quote:
Your entire point is that people who turn graphical detail up cause server lag because things that are now on their screen has to now be synced between clients through the server.
NEVER was that my point. NEVER. Don't you dare make this a repeat of what I just went through in the Killzone thread. No freakin way.

You go back to my posts and point out me saying that. Do it. I dare you.

I never EVER said that if I have my PC at maximum graphical details - that causes the server to lag more than the guy with minimum graphical details. Oh my good lord you're just too much man. LOL This just gets better and better with every post.
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post #297 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
You're kidding right? Refer back to my past posts please - I've mentioned it like 3 to 4 times. You respond to me, act like I'm out of my mind, yet didnt even read them clearly. It's too much.



NEVER was that my point. NEVER. Don't you dare make this a repeat of what I just went through in the Killzone thread. No freakin way.

You go back to my posts and point out me saying that. Do it. I dare you.

I never EVER said that if I have my PC at maximum graphical details - that causes the server to lag more than the guy with minimum graphical details. Oh my good lord you're just too much man. LOL This just gets better and better with every post.
I will. One moment.
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post #298 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
I will. One moment.
take your time - I'll stay up to see this one happen.

EDIT:
Well gee - 12 minutes later and it still says you're simply reading the thread. *shrugs*
Misunderstanding what I said it one thing, but to go through 10 pages and make it sound like I'm supporting such a ridiculous claim is sooooo.... I can't even think of a word for it.

EDIT2: 24 minutes
Either your post is a brief research essay on stuff I supposedly said or weird and dead wrong interpretations on the things I actually said. Either way, I've re-read everything Ive said thus far and none of it supports your claim of what you supposedly though of what I actually said. I can't wait to see your post.
Edited by OmegaNemesis28 - 2/25/11 at 12:05am
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post #299 of 325
In all seriousness, who the frick cares?

I'm pretty sure the guys at DICE know a bit more than any of us sitting on an internet message board debating server loads, no matter how big our OCN e-peen is.
    
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post #300 of 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgins View Post
In all seriousness, who the frick cares?

I'm pretty sure the guys at DICE know a bit more than any of us sitting on an internet message board debating server loads, no matter how big our OCN e-peen is.
Obviously, we're not the ones making the game. But it doesnt change the fact that someone wants to make up stuff and shove words in my mouth, acting as if I'm trying to support a totally false and ridiculous claim.

You can easily look back at previous games and make predictions on games that are coming out. Nothing wrong with speculation, but speculation is nothing if you have nothing to back it up.
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Dell U2311H 1920x1080 IPS Dell U2311H 1920x1080 IPS Ducky Blue Overclock.net Themed Mechanical Keyb... Corsair Silver 1kw  
CaseMouseAudio
Case Labs TH10 Logitech G502 Logitech 5.1 speakers w/ Onkyo Receiver 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Xeon W3520 i7 4.0ghz EVGA X58 Classified Visiontek 6990 GSkill 6GB DDR3 Pi 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x OCZ Vertex 60GB SSD ; 2x 1TB ; 2x 2TB Samsung BluRay Burner Windows 7 Ultimate 64x 3x Dell U2311H 23" 1080p IPS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard SilverStone Strider 1000w Modular Power Supply Lian Li V2000 Plus Logitech G9 Gaming Laser Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Cyba Sniper Tracer (Acrylic Glass) 
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