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[IGN] Sony Forming Anti-Piracy Program - Page 16

post #151 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrazeau1115 View Post
Haha, please show me where its in a persons 'psychology'...

Though, I guess I shouldnt be expecting much when you said earlier, companies dont care about $1.25B once they have made $1B, cause you know, losing out on 20% profit isnt a big deal. Assuming a person averages $50,000, how about we take off 20% and only pay them $40,000... no biggie right?
That is a valid point, but I'd only say that would be the case if the company was in the red. This projected income (not my example, but the real projected income) is done after all expenses are paid and purely on profit. Not to mention all these numbers are based off the idea that the entire 4M pirates are US pirates. That alone is biased, so immediately without even taking the number down you can say the projected number of 245M lost is wrong. The only reason those pirating figures are so high is that the numbers are always done in the USD, why do you think that is?

IMO If the company has to cut 20% salary or cut a person I don't see a problem. There are plenty of jobs with risks, while some of those risks shouldn't be there the people go into it knowing what could happen. This is life and not a Utopia, you get a salary cut then there is probably a good reason for it. This is still a different topic than projected sales. If were in that position (and I've been in similar) that would just motivate me to do a better job. I see it this way, the better game sells no matter what percent is pirated. You push out that better game, you make money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugu View Post
I may have gotten over 50 ps3 games for under 20$ on ebay/other sites but you don't have to use mean names.

As far as piracy goes, I think it's a circumstantial thing and a hoarding thing mostly. When we were young we couldn't afford to buy games, even renting them (remember when you could do that in your hometown? Can't even rent movies here now) ended up costing a lot. So as any tech savvy kid raised with the rise of the internet you went online and grabbed EVERYTHING indiscriminately saturating your modem with traffic simply because it was there.

IMO most of us grew out of that, or at least branched out into the paying consumer market, as we got incomes. Once we could afford to buy a item there was no longer the need to go through the hassle of piracy. I'm not saying this explains all piracy or anything or that it should be thought of as normal or right.

Point being, undoubtedly there are die hard pirates who will never buy anything but I believe the majority grow out of it.



*Goes back to waiting on Steam sales (on games without crappy DRM!) and watching ebay*
The hoarding is a good point, I never looked at it like that. Though that assumes all pirates hoard, which probably isn't the case. I do think music/media pirates hoard, you'll see a lot of them with 1TB or 2TB of space dedicated to media.

The "penny pincher" isn't a mean term... =P I could say super saver, whatever the crap, but you know what I mean.

[not directly to this quote] People who are willing to do what it takes to save (or gain that) extra bit will do it at all costs. Hoarders hoard, no matter how they have to go about it. It's all a pattern we fill, and that was what I am saying. If a pirate believes he can get it for free and either doesn't want to buy it or doesn't care enough to buy it he will wait for it to get cracked and released. Point and case, how many people on hacked 360's own games now that they wouldn't have. Sure, they would rent it for 3 days and say "meh it was ok". When they could then get it for free they said "oh yeah, I'll play that occasionally". It's how we work as individuals, we will get into these patterns or trains of thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petran79 View Post
Problem is that while for them it is a tough job, for us it is silly entertainment and not taken seriously.
My aunt works in a tv station that has the worst and trashiest content , yet she gets exhausted everyday. While i hate that station, i appreciate the effort of the lower ranking staff.

In other countries wages are lower yet new software prices remain the same as in Europe and America.
So how do you expect your product not to be pirated with such a steep price and advertising? Lowering the price is not an option because it will have an effect in the sales worldwide.
It is a vicious circle.

But i am suspicious of rankings and statistics that favour factors found in the country of origin of the research, yet ignoring others. Eg the best universities are in the US or Scandinavia is the best place to live. Not that it isnt valid, it just excludes other important factors of what makes a good education or living or even piracy.
Even if, lets say we were 30% we still aren't the top dog. There are a lot more countries that have piracy due to it being somewhat legal. Lets say you borrow a game and use a crack to play it, give the game back to your friend. Have you committed piracy? Yes, because you gave the disc back yet you can still play it. That's legal (gray area) in some countries. Not to mention DVDs, CDs, software and media are sold in Asia for like .50USD. I've had friends bring me back Asian VCDs, in fact I can take a picture of one to prove it. THAT is what they are talking about, how the industry pirates in other countries and does it openly. This isn't just software, when talking about piracy it's the entire picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixednuts View Post
I understand what you're trying to say but hard work is still hard work, whether anyone appreciates the end product or not. I think a huge issue with the majority of these "noble pirates" is they are barely out of their training wheels and the only hard work they put in on a regular basis is moving the family lawn once a week (assuming their parents can even get them to do that). If you've never had to work a real job to pay the bills then you can't appreciate what work is. If you don't like something or don't want to pay the asking price for it then you don't get it. I would love to have a nice sports car and get back into track racing (god I miss willow springs/streets of willow raceway) but I'm not going to go out and steal a new 458 Italia to do it.


True, it may be more expensive to buy another countries product but when it comes to luxuries like video games, if you don't have the money for it then don't buy it. No one is putting a gun to your head and saying you have to obtain it by any means necessary. You want it so you have to pay for it. The problem here is you have legions of kiddies that want it but don't want to wipe out their allowance to get it so they pirate it.

Yeah I'm going to have to go with you one that. A statistic that originated in Russia and said that 98% of all Russians can crap lighting on command would be suspect. Admittedly thats a hugely overblown example but you get my meaning.
So pirates are kids? Money has to do with the entire reason a country pirates, it probably doesn't have to do with the idea that some of these countries may not even have outlets for these games to be sold? And yes, statistics are wrong we know this.
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post #152 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixednuts View Post
The problem with that is with most games now days 10 hours is more than enough to beat the game with time to spare.

Personally, I'm against piracy period. I don't care if people think they are justified because they are just trying it out and they swear "they'll buy it if they like it". Its still stealing. A product is a product is a product and you are stealing someones hard work.
The length of time could be entirely altered, like for games, they could have a fully functional demo that would let you try one or two levels.

I can entirely see a case for piracy though, because people who purchase software are not afforded the warranty protections that hardware would generally come with. Nothing is worse than buying software that is a dud. I know I have been burned a few times. But then, I find that games generally work as they should, are better tested, and the game makers generally provide proper updates if there is a problem. However, with other software, it's a real gamble for people. I have seen numerous times when demo versions work adequately, but the full version is borked in some way, and quite often, the developer simply will not fix the problems. Or they fix the problems, but have migrated to some new platform so the software will no longer work on your hardware.

I think Sony needs to address piracy - and the first step is to end their attack on GeoHot, and instead, concentrate on piracy. As other user's have mentioned, piracy is entirely rampant in some countries. Like in Asia, where one can go to a market and buy a few thousand dollars of cracked software for like 50 cents. Even here, if you know the right places and don't look like cop, one can scoop up a giant DVD on the cheap. It's not only software, but movies, music, tv shows, books, etc.

I don't think they can ever stop piracy - but some steps include making software that is affordable (which is something game makers have been better at than other segments), having demos that are more accurate when it comes to the experience one might get with the full package, perhaps even a greater attention span, where they stick with a version level for more than a few months before adding more bloat. Perhaps even a warranty, where one can get cash back if the software is dreadful, or broken - and with inexpensive upgrade paths which don't break the bank.
post #153 of 168
Lol I guess they got freakin mad at the PS3 crack They ain't gonna win tho lol
post #154 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

IMO If the company has to cut 20% salary or cut a person I don't see a problem. There are plenty of jobs with risks, while some of those risks shouldn't be there the people go into it knowing what could happen. This is life and not a Utopia, you get a salary cut then there is probably a good reason for it. This is still a different topic than projected sales. If were in that position (and I've been in similar) that would just motivate me to do a better job. I see it this way, the better game sells no matter what percent is pirated. You push out that better game, you make money.
Yeah unless it's you losing the job, and then suddenly it's a problem. Game companies require a team effort. Even if one person specifically played a role in the failure of a game release, theres's no guarantee that person would be the one getting fired.

Game production requires an incredible amount of sacrifice on everyone's part. People loose there wives over a particularly tough crunch period before a game launch because they were at work so much thanks to the company that was demanding a deadline.

So after all that work and sacrifice having some jerk steal the game you worked on, that cost your best buddy his job last week, that guaranteed the companies failure a year from now thanks to budget cuts from headquarters, and that cost you most of your life's happiness, tends to make you just a little upset.

The mantra that life's not fair, have a cookie, in relation to this issue is ignorant of just what it takes to put a game out, or a movie for that matter.

People pour their lives into these things. It's not like working at 7/11 and having someone grab a bag of doritos before running out without paying.
It's more like watching while years of back breaking work on a game series go down the drain when your publisher's CEO decides that the 20% the company lost due to piracy is enough reason to shut the whole thing down.

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this, but all I can say is the people really paying the price of piracy are a lot of talented artists, programmers, and designers who deserved better from the community they create for.
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post #155 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by [\\/]Paris View Post
Yeah unless it's you losing the job, and then suddenly it's a problem. Game companies require a team effort. Even if one person specifically played a role in the failure of a game release, theres's no guarantee that person would be the one getting fired.

Game production requires an incredible amount of sacrifice on everyone's part. People loose there wives over a particularly tough crunch period before a game launch because they were at work so much thanks to the company that was demanding a deadline.

So after all that work and sacrifice having some jerk steal the game you worked on, that cost your best buddy his job last week, that guaranteed the companies failure a year from now thanks to budget cuts from headquarters, and that cost you most of your life's happiness, tends to make you just a little upset.

The mantra that life's not fair, have a cookie, in relation to this issue is ignorant of just what it takes to put a game out, or a movie for that matter.

People pour their lives into these things. It's not like working at 7/11 and having someone grab a bag of doritos before running out without paying.
It's more like watching while years of back breaking work on a game series go down the drain when your publisher's CEO decides that the 20% the company lost due to piracy is enough reason to shut the whole thing down.

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this, but all I can say is the people really paying the price of piracy are a lot of talented artists, programmers, and designers who deserved better from the community they create for.
Right, and people get killed over seas at war. I understand how sacrifice works, I've lost friends. The thing is, this is life and you go into these situations knowing what could happen. You can wine all you want about it, it's gonna happen. I don't blame the people over seas for "starting" this war, they didn't, nor do I blame our military for putting people in knowingly bad situations. When a company fires you because of loss, it's probably not completely due to pirates, there's a whole bunch of reasons.

I'm simply not going to let you say that this is the reason net loss happens, you should list all the reasons or none of them. Or you should put emphasis that this might be a reason net loss happens, as the numbers that the companies publish are wrong.
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post #156 of 168
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Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Right, and people get killed over seas at war. I understand how sacrifice works, I've lost friends. The thing is, this is life and you go into these situations knowing what could happen. You can wine all you want about it, it's gonna happen. I don't blame the people over seas for "starting" this war, they didn't, nor do I blame our military for putting people in knowingly bad situations. When a company fires you because of loss, it's probably not completely due to pirates, there's a whole bunch of reasons.

I'm simply not going to let you say that this is the reason net loss happens, you should list all the reasons or none of them. Or you should put emphasis that this might be a reason net loss happens, as the numbers that the companies publish are wrong.
Perhaps I have put too much emphasis on pirating as being "the reason" for job loss, I'll grant you my "wining" makes piracy out to be the only bad guy in the ring. My intent wasn't to put all the blame on piracy, but it looks like that's how it came out.

More than anything piracy simply represents one of a number of pressures currently placed on developers. The push towards realism and the amount of man hours projects take are another pressure. The struggle of indie teams trying to compete against massive development empires like EA & Activision/Blizzard is another. The need to meet tight deadlines while somehow managing to not compromise a product is certainly one of the many struggles. Game Design more than some of the other artforms is always an awkward balance between budget and quality. The balancing act that occurs sometimes favors the budget and sometimes favors quality.

I guess my real point is simply that piracy is a pressure point devs. shouldn't have to factor into their development process. It makes an already complex and uncertain process that much more uncertain. It also discourages experimentation in the industry, especially by the large studios, because by some peoples argument, if a game sucks they'll pirate it all the more. Sometimes experiments suck, but having the impact of that worsened by piracy doesn't help any in giving studios incentive towards changes and growth.

In the end it all comes down to money. Studios have to factor losses from theft of their product into their total projected income off of a project these days. They can't project whether a game will suck or not, at least not at first, but they can certainly guess that it'll probably get pirated fairly well because that's what's been happening. This logically results in smaller budgets for games which in some cases results in a poorer quality title in my opinion.

No piracy is not the only problem. But it is *one* of the problems, and it's (here comes the whining) not fair that developers don't know whether or not all the people enjoying their game actually paid anything for it.

Other industries don't have this problem on the scale software and digital media companies deal with. If you see someone using a GE washer for laundry you don't typically have to question whether or not they paid anything to enjoy use of said washer. The same just can't be said for movies, games, or music. These people deserve fair compensation for the work they've done, just like anyone. That's my "beef" with piracy.
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post #157 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post
I'd like companies to bring a trial service (on Steam or on their official website) where you can try the full game for 5 or 10 hours, and then upgrade to the full version if you liked it, now we could see if that reduces piracy or not. Although I'm quite sure it won't (not a lot anyway) and now people would just invent the excuse that ten hours is not enough they need infinite time just to be sure.
A similar method is being done on the PS3 for example. Full games you get to download entirely and play for an hour. Once the hour is up - you can buy it at a discounted price and continue playing without having to download anything extra.

Only problem with PC doing this is because something like that would make piracy even easier to simply root out whatever time limit is there sometimes unless an online DRM, which is still crackable, is implemented.

Having 5 or 10 hours is too generous for a trial. Some games dont last that long for one play through. You'd be playing it for free Something like an hour or two is enough time invested into a game to know whether you want to see the conclusion or not.
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post #158 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
A similar method is being done on the PS3 for example. Full games you get to download entirely and play for an hour. Once the hour is up - you can buy it at a discounted price and continue playing without having to download anything extra.

Only problem with PC doing this is because something like that would make piracy even easier to simply root out whatever time limit is there sometimes unless an online DRM, which is still crackable, is implemented.

Having 5 or 10 hours is too generous for a trial. Some games dont last that long for one play through. You'd be playing it for free Something like an hour or two is enough time invested into a game to know whether you want to see the conclusion or not.
Yeap. If you decide to buy it, you get to pick up right where you left off in the trial, and you receive all the trophies as well. It is a perk of PlayStation Plus.
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post #159 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
Yeap. If you decide to buy it, you get to pick up right where you left off in the trial, and you receive all the trophies as well. It is a perk of PlayStation Plus.
I havent actually found a game I wanted to try it with yet due to the fact I have most of them already, but I will eventually.
It's a nice system and it kills like 3 birds with one stone.
Not only do you get a best possible way to demo the game, but you also download the entire game instead of a 2GB thing of wasted time AND its essentially games on demand or STEAM type purchasing of full games.
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post #160 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
Highly unlikely.

Good on Sony. I'm glad to see a company actually getting some balls when it comes to this stuff. Pirates need to be stopped.
Indeed go Sony
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800D Silky Smooth
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 930 GA-X58A-UD3R v2 5850 CROSSFIRE Corsair Dominator CMP6GX3M3A1600C7 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD BLACK 1TB Seagate 500g LG BABY DVD Win7 64BIT SyncMaster BX2440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer Lycosa Silver Stone SST-S1000-P Corsair 800D RAZER COPPERHEAD 
Mouse Pad
RAZER 
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