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How will not using TRIM affect my SSD in the future? - Page 2

post #11 of 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thisischuck01 View Post
The OP answers his own question. .
After a little bit of clarification from you helpful people, yes. Now I can be a helpful person too.
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post #12 of 23
Correct me if I am wrong, but won't Garbage Collection restore the performance after the box sits idle for a few hours? My understanding is it is a simple version of TRIM done at the controller and works in the background when the drive is sitting in idle, so there is no need to do a Secure Erase unless you needed the performance back immediately. Granted if you do write benchmarks to it constantly for a few days then you can wear the drive out, but the average Joe would never do this. This is why you can run SSD's in RAID where TRIM is not supported and the performance is maintained, especially on newer drives which have a much more aggressive GC than the first generation drives.
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post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by utnorris View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but won't Garbage Collection restore the performance after the box sits idle for a few hours? My understanding is it is a simple version of TRIM done at the controller and works in the background when the drive is sitting in idle, so there is no need to do a Secure Erase unless you needed the performance back immediately. Granted if you do write benchmarks to it constantly for a few days then you can wear the drive out, but the average Joe would never do this. This is why you can run SSD's in RAID where TRIM is not supported and the performance is maintained, especially on newer drives which have a much more aggressive GC than the first generation drives.
You're correct. GC is an alternative to Secure Erase.
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post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisischuck01 View Post
You're correct. GC is an alternative to Secure Erase.
No, it is possible that GC fails or gets backed into a corner.

Secure Erase always works.
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post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckclc View Post
you guys are scaring me away from buying an SSD. With all this degradation talk. Im use to having HDD for 5+ years.
Don't forget the numerous "tweaking" needed and the terrible sizes. I've voiced my opinion on SSDs but everyone gets extra sensitive about it, as if no one's allowed to critique a product, especially one that's tiny in storage space and has to be used on a limited basis in order to prevent "wear"
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post #16 of 23
ssd have a long life something like 1 million hours or something. I may be wrong but windows 7 supports trim even in IDE mode
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post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
No, it is possible that GC fails or gets backed into a corner.

Secure Erase always works.
Garbage Collection IS a viable alternative to a Secure Erase. There are two situations that would prevent GC from being as effective as a Secure Erase:
  1. The drive is regularly filled with uncompressed data, and then emptied. This will be the cause of many “dirty” sectors, significantly slowing driving performance. In order for the drive to return to optimal performance, the drive will have to idle for several days, allowing GC to wipe these “dirty” sectors.
  2. The drive is regularly filled to over 80-85% of its capacity. This would cause GC to, as you stated “fail or get backed into a corner.”
Garbage Collection makes it so you don't have to wipe and format your drive every couple months to keep it at it's optimal performance. All in all, GCs pros highly outweigh its cons, making it much more practical than a Secure-Erase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post
Don't forget the numerous "tweaking" needed and the terrible sizes. I've voiced my opinion on SSDs but everyone gets extra sensitive about it, as if no one's allowed to critique a product, especially one that's tiny in storage space and has to be used on a limited basis in order to prevent "wear"
SSDs are a relatively new technology. Of course they are imperfect. HDDs are clearly imperfect as well. They have been around since the 1950’s and you still hear about drive failure all the time. It’s just that many of the pros of SSDs outweigh the cons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogwasher View Post
ssd have a long life something like 1 million hours or something. I may be wrong but windows 7 supports trim even in IDE mode
SSDs, with “normal” usage, are supposed to have a MTBF between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 hours. More specifically, flash cells in MLC SSDs can resist between 10,000 and 1,000,000 write cycles before failure.
You are incorrect about Windows 7 supporting TRIM in IDE. The SSD must be set up in AHCI for TRIM to be enabled.
Edited by thisischuck01 - 2/27/11 at 3:25pm
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post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisischuck01 View Post
Garbage Control IS a viable alternative to a Secure Erase. There are two situations that would prevent GC from being as effective as a Secure Erase:
  1. The drive is regularly filled with uncompressed data, and then emptied. This will be the cause of many “dirty†sectors, significantly slowing driving performance. In order for the drive to return to optimal performance, the drive will have to idle for several days, allowing GC to wipe these “dirty†sectors.
  2. The drive is regularly filled to over 80-85% of its capacity. This would cause GC to, as you stated “fail or get backed into a corner.â€
Garbage Control makes it so you don't have to wipe and format your drive every couple months to keep it at it's optimal performance. All in all, GCs pros highly outweigh its cons, making it much more practical than a Secure-Erase.
It is called Garbage Collection.

Yup, the users need to be aware that GC is not a perfect solution. It can get backed into a corner. In addition, it generates more write amplification than TRIM.
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post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisischuck01 View Post



SSDs, with “normal†usage, are supposed to have a MTBF between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 hours. More specifically, flash cells in MLC SSDs can resist between 10,000 and 1,000,000 write cycles before failure.
You are incorrect about Windows 7 supporting TRIM in IDE. The SSD must be set up in AHCI for TRIM to be enabled.
Oh well I had mine in ide mode and windows said trim was active, used cmd to find out.

But I don't know more then that about trim, so you are probably right.

Dont think trim is as important as we think. Been running two in raid0(no trim support in raid) for 8 months now and so no slow down
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post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
It is called Garbage Collection.

Yup, the users need to be aware that GC is not a perfect solution. It can get backed into a corner. In addition, it generates more write amplification than TRIM.
It was late, I was tired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogwasher View Post
Oh well I had mine in ide mode and windows said trim was active, used cmd to find out.

But I don't know more then that about trim, so you are probably right.

Dont think trim is as important as we think. Been running two in raid0(no trim support in raid) for 8 months now and so no slow down
To my knowledge, TRIM isn't supported in IDE, only in AHCI and RAID (but not if the drive is part of a RAID volume). Now that BGC has become much more aggressive, TRIM is no longer as necessary.
Edited by thisischuck01 - 2/27/11 at 5:15pm
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