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Help needed powering Tec setup - Page 2

post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremetechuk;12552530 
Four 50mm 331W Qmax TEC's at 21v or 68% of Umax while moving 400W.
Electricity Used = 1023W
Amperage = 47.80A
Total Heatload = 1423W
Delta = 40C
TEC Coldside = -13C
TEC Hotside = 27C
COP (Efficiency) = 0.39

TEC Coldside temperature would be -13C, providing the hotside is kept around 27C. Now a single 120.3 radiator with six san ace fans struggles to hold an i7@4Ghz at 60C, which would be around 200W. So I highly doubt three 120.3 radiators can hold a heatload of 1423W at 27C. I would choose a more efficient configuration.


Hmm, 2 small meanwells. I like. From what i saw, a gtx would be able to hold a load of 1200w at a 10C Delta. Two GTX's could hold 1100w @ a delta of 5C. I think that sounds best. I could throw a third in for good measure, Which would get me a delta of less than 5C. Assuming the room temp is 18C, I could see water going into the hot side of the tec as low as 23C.
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post #12 of 18
In all honesty, I wouldn't bother adding the 2x GPUs to the chilled loop. All they will do is increase the heat load and add extra cost to the cooling.

A 4x TEC chiller has the potential to keep a CPU well under zero - and if you want to improve cooling of your GPUs, just add a simple waterloop for them seperate to your chiller loop.

That will keep the PSU cost down, it'll reduce the radiator size (and amount) needed to keep the TEC hotside loop under control, and will allow your CPU to achieve a good sub zero overclock and your GPUs to achieve a decent overclock as well.

The CTE 331w 50mm TECs that xtremechuk suggested are great TECs for a chiller setup. You can undervolt them and improve effiency while still keeping the colside subzero with a 200w heat load, which is not as easy as it sounds and is not easily done with any other TEC atm without running higher volts/amps, using more power and costing you more.

My only addition to xtremechuk's suggestion is if you are going to run a chiller in your daily PC, then you might want to try and keep total power usage down - so sacrifice a few degrees of cooling and run the TECs at 13.5v instead of ~21v.

Not only will running the TECs at 13.5v reduce overall power usage, it'll also drop the PSU costs down as C.O.P will increase and less overall power will be consumed by the TECs.


ie. 4x 50mm 331W Qmax TEC's at 13.23v or 42% of Umax while moving 200W.
Electricity Used = 354W
Amperage = 26.67A
Total Heatload = 554W
Delta = 34.15C
TEC Coldside = -7.16C
TEC Hotside = 27C
COP (Efficiency) = 0.565


The overall power usage would be almost a third of what it would be if the TECs were run at 21v, and you could then buy a 500w Meanwell (eg. PSP-500-12) for half the price of a suitable 21v PSU. It also means less radiator is needed to cool the TEC hotside heat, which would be 554w instead of 1400w smile.gif

The only downside is the TEC coldside temp, it would be -7C instead of -13C, but as mentioned, if it is in a daily used rig, then the costs savings from lower power usage alone would make it worth it, and -7C is still sub zero and still bloody cold tongue.gif
Edited by un-nefer - 3/1/11 at 3:56am
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post #13 of 18
+1

I couldn't agree more, I think your under-estimating the amount of heat that needs to be dissipated. All of the figures that I and un-nefer have suggested were rated at TEC hotside of 27C. This will be difficult to achieve, and I think you will agree after researching temperatures on watercooled overclocked i7's.
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-nefer;12566832 
In all honesty, I wouldn't bother adding the 2x GPUs to the chilled loop. All they will do is increase the heat load and add extra cost to the cooling.

A 4x TEC chiller has the potential to keep a CPU well under zero - and if you want to improve cooling of your GPUs, just add a simple waterloop for them seperate to your chiller loop.

That will keep the PSU cost down, it'll reduce the radiator size (and amount) needed to keep the TEC hotside loop under control, and will allow your CPU to achieve a good sub zero overclock and your GPUs to achieve a decent overclock as well.

The CTE 331w 50mm TECs that xtremechuk suggested are great TECs for a chiller setup. You can undervolt them and improve effiency while still keeping the colside subzero with a 200w heat load, which is not as easy as it sounds and is not easily done with any other TEC atm without running higher volts/amps, using more power and costing you more.

My only addition to xtremechuk's suggestion is if you are going to run a chiller in your daily PC, then you might want to try and keep total power usage down - so sacrifice a few degrees of cooling and run the TECs at 13.5v instead of ~21v.

Not only will running the TECs at 13.5v reduce overall power usage, it'll also drop the PSU costs down as C.O.P will increase and less overall power will be consumed by the TECs.


ie. 4x 50mm 331W Qmax TEC's at 13.23v or 42% of Umax while moving 200W.
Electricity Used = 354W
Amperage = 26.67A
Total Heatload = 554W
Delta = 34.15C
TEC Coldside = -7.16C
TEC Hotside = 27C
COP (Efficiency) = 0.565


The overall power usage would be almost a third of what it would be if the TECs were run at 21v, and you could then buy a 500w Meanwell (eg. PSP-500-12) for half the price of a suitable 21v PSU. It also means less radiator is needed to cool the TEC hotside heat, which would be 554w instead of 1400w smile.gif

The only downside is the TEC coldside temp, it would be -7C instead of -13C, but as mentioned, if it is in a daily used rig, then the costs savings from lower power usage alone would make it worth it, and -7C is still sub zero and still bloody cold tongue.gif

Your probably right. I guess this i will do. I do like to overclock my gpu's tho, but i guess now i dont need to worry about condensation on 3 or 4 $400 cards lol, and I can go back to a normal tower case with 2 triple GTS's.
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post #15 of 18
You'll be able to achieve a decent overclock with your GPUs just watercooled. My 5850's temps dropped from 70C to 35C (under load) just buy adding a universal swiftech waterblock. So don't be worried about the GPUs smile.gif

And as xtremechuk said above, our coldside temps will only be possible if you can keep the hotside at 27C, and to get anywhere near that, you'll want to keep the hotside heatload down as low as possible.

More then likely, your hotside heatload would be closer to 40C - but the final temp will depend on how well you can keep them cool, so the better hotside cooling, the colder the coldside will be smile.gif
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post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
I keep my room cold... so the air going into the rads should be like 20c
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post #17 of 18
I'm starting to give up on TEC's, most of the advantages that TEC's once had have now gone. There no longer small when you take into account of all the radiators required, and refrigeration chillers are actually smaller. Refrigeration chillers are also far more efficient and will outperform a TEC chiller, and their actually cheaper aswell.

Ultrasonics TEC 4*50mm chiller costs $350 and four 50mm TEC's will cost another $200. You will also need to purchase radiators which could easily exceed another $300. So the total cost so far would be $850.

One of the main reasons why users used direct die setups 3-4 years ago, was because triple 120 radiators could handle the heatload and still have more potential. However today a triple 120 radiator can't cope with an overclocked i7. So how can a triple 120 radiator handle the additional heatload from a TEC, when it can't cope with the current CPU heatload. Meaning the TEC will require additional radiators, and even then the hotside temperature could reach 60C-70C at which point a TEC chiller would become pointless.

Please don't mistake this as trolling, I'm merely expressing my views on TEC's.
post #18 of 18
aww don't give up on them man frown.gif


If designed right, a TEC chiller can be very efficient and can even be much cheaper then those regfrigeration chillers.

New vs new, a TEC chiller will be the cheapest option for sub zero if done right. You could DIY a quality 4x TEC chiller for under $500 (including the TECs, copper blocks and PSU) and it would be able to keep a 200w load at sub zero quite easily if done right.

But saying that, it is really hard to beat a airconditioner slushbox if you are on a tight budget- both for cost and performance. You can pick up a used airon unit for under $100 and an esky for under $30. Gut and mod the aircon unit and make a slushbox with it and you can easily achieve sub zero cooling for well inder $200.

But that takes up a lot of space, can be very noisy, and looks like dog balls (ugly to look at tongue.gif).

You can also go with the cheap ebay 250w TECs too, which would cut the cost down a lot. You could run them from a cheap PC PSU and build the TEC chiller out of aluminium instead of copper to keep costs down and it should come in under $200 all up as well.

And although it won't chill as well as an aircon slushbox, it'll still easily go below ambient, and has the potential for sub zero, with the -8C TEC coldside, if the chiller block and design is efficient enough. Plus it can be designed to be almost silent (apart from the PC PSU fan) and can be designed to sit inside the PC case and out of sight smile.gif
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