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Question about 2 MCP35x pumps in the same loop.

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Are there any problems, immediate or potential, with having 2 of these pumps in a series loop, but often running at different speeds?


My planned layout for the loop will be res1 -> pump1 -> rad1 ->CPU block -> RAM block -> res2 -> pump2 -> GPUblock -> rad2 -> res1

The res is a Koolance RP402x2 that will have 2 MCP35x pumps mounted on it, and configured so that each pump has its own res chamber.

What I would like to do is use the PWM signal for the CPU fan to control the speed of pump 1, and the PWM signal for the GPU fan to control the speed of pump 2.

Either pump by itself is capable of moving more than enough water through the loop, but I'd like to have the redundancy of 2 pumps in a series loop.

Since nothing I do causes a high CPU and GPU load at the same time, always one or the other, I want the cooling system to be able to respond to either one.

I also want the system to be as quiet as possible when idle, without turning it off, so I don't want to run the pumps at full speed all of the time.

My pumps and fans will all be PWM controlled by the motherboard and graphics card, so the entire cooling system will be automatic.
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post #2 of 10
If I were to use these pumps in series I wouldn't use the PWM function
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post #3 of 10
If you haven't bought those pumps have you? If not don't buy 2, you really don't need it.
post #4 of 10
Running them at differennt speed is not a problem for the pumbs, but you might prefer the noise quality of each running at the same rpm better. I find that mixing of pump or fan speed can occasionally lead to an unexpected undulating harmonic which can be annoying.

With that much power, you'll likely have more than enough flow turned down manually to 30 or 40%PWM.
    
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post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
Running them at differennt speed is not a problem for the pumbs, but you might prefer the noise quality of each running at the same rpm better. I find that mixing of pump or fan speed can occasionally lead to an unexpected undulating harmonic which can be annoying.

With that much power, you'll likely have more than enough flow turned down manually to 30 or 40%PWM.
Thank you for your reply.
I've been leaning pretty heavily on your testing of the Koolance reservoir and the MCP35x pumps.

I'll go ahead with my control plan and see how it sounds. If i don't like it, it will be pretty easy to reconfigure, since it will only take moving some wires around.
I just wanted to make sure that running the pumps at different speeds wouldn't actually break anything.

My motherboard lets me set the minimum and maximum duty cycles for the PWM CPU_Fan header, and the low and high temperature. From my testing with a PWM fan, it has a pretty smooth ramp up from minimum to maximum speed within the temperature range I set.
The graphics card gives me a choice between its stock PWM fan curve, or I can manually input up to 8 temp/PWM% control points for it to follow.

It should be fun setting it up.


Thank you for your efforts. These products are pretty new, so there isn't much info out there yet. We are fortunate that you have done such high quality reviewins of the products.

I've been hoping you would do a test with 2x MCP35x pumps on a RP402x2 reservoir under PWM control, but I understand the difficulty of actually testing such a beast on your test setup.

I'm curious if the pumps will be quieter when slowed down via PWM control than by voltage control.
I have 4 different PWM controlled fans, and all 4 of them are quieter and cooler at 50% of their max speed under PWM control than under voltage control. My hope is that the pumps will have similar behavior.

I'll be using 2 Akasa Viper fans on each radiator, 1 viper for the rear exhaust, and 2 Akasa Apache Black fans for spot cooling of the motherboard and drive bay area.

The 2 fans on each radiator will share the PWM signal for the pump for that part of the loop, and the 3 case fans will share the PWM signal for the system fan.
All 7 fans will get their 12v power directly from the PSU, the motherboard will just supply the PWM signal, and the tach return from the 2 pumps and the rear exhaust fan.

"IF" it all works the way I have it planned, the system should be pretty quiet at idle, but able to automatically ramp up to easily handle whatever load I throw at it, even if I add another graphics card, etc., and a pump failure won't put the system immediately out of commission.

Oh, and this is my first custom WC setup, lol.
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post #6 of 10
the more I see those koolance res the more i want to buy another mcp 35x and the res just for the hell of it
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post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 
All of the parts for the build:

Reservoir: Koolance RP-402x2
Pumps: (2) Swiftech MCP35x
Radiator1: Swiftech MCR220-QP
Radiator2: Phobya Xtreme200
CPU block: EK Supreme HF full nickle
GPU block: Aquacomputer Aquagraphix 470 nickle plated
Ram Block: EK-RPM-DOM-ACNC (I know it is not needed, but i like how it looks!)
Fittings: Koolance 1/2" barbs
Tubing: Tygon 1/2id x 3/4od clear
Fans: 5x Akasa Viper PWM, 2x Akasa Apache Black PWM
TIM: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver
MSC: Silver kill coil, 3x Akasa PWM splitter cables, worm drive hose clamps

Most of it should get to me over the next week or so, though I'm not overly optimistic on how long it will take to get the nickle plated Aquagtaphix 470 and Phobya radiator from Aquatuning...

I can't find a PWM controlled 180 or 200mm fan, so I'm going to make a custom plenum chamber to mount two 120mm fans on the Phobya radiator.
Edited by Caleal - 2/27/11 at 10:17pm
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post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
The pumps, reservoir and one of the radiators were delivered today.

The outlet on one of the pump tops doesn't have any threads cut in it for a fitting!
Good thing I wasn't planning on using the stock top...
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post #9 of 10
I do know that PWM control on th 35X provides it with a lower RPM minimum that it can reach over voltage control which is quieter. I also only have one 35X pump so I couldn't test two in series. The 35x is a stronger pump motor though (higher rpm at high flows), so it should do well. I have also now installed the 402 res in my sons case for daily work duties using one pmp-400.
I'm really happy with the noise in single pump mode at full speed, the slow speed yates and other fans in his case easily mask what little pump noise there is. Testing left me a little unsure, but actual experience with it in daily operation with at least a single pump has satisfied any doubts. All I hear are case fans running in his rig, I really can't hear or notice any pump noise. I've got slow speed yates running in that one.

I was pretty skeptical about pump noise in these bay reservoirs since they essetially hard mount, but I think the large chunk of acetal and water in the res does a great job in controlling vibration. It is about 5 lbs when loaded.

Anyhow, sorry to hear about the 35X top...surprised they missed that
Edited by Martinm210 - 3/1/11 at 5:31am
    
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post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
I've been playing with the reservoir and pump combo on my bench, aka kitchen counter, and am impressed with how quiet they are at full speed.

I haven't mounted it in a case yet, but just sitting straight on the counter, unsecured, there is some noticeable vibration, but with more rigid contact, it goes away.
I haven't tried it with PWM control yet because I'm using the system this stuff is going in, and don't want to mess with it until I'm ready to tear it down to install the WC components.
I have a PWM controller I use for my work, but it has a 24V output, so I'm not taking it anywhere near my 12V pumps!

The CPU and GPU blocks, and Phobya 200 radiator should be to me from Aquatuning on the 7th, so I'll be able to do my minor case mod, and build the fan plenum for the radiator next week.
If all goes reasonably as planned, my system will be off this H70 and under real water cooling by next weekend.
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