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Q6600 Bottleneck A GTX 580? - Page 10

post #91 of 120
The total lanes is of course an issue, but more importantly it's how they divided and the overall architecture.

You don't want to run any current high-end GPU on an x4 lane, but an x4 is perfectly fine for say a RevoDrive, and an x1 for a sound card.

but I'm not aware of anyone 'smart' putting in on water or doing what has been done to the SR-2. In either case, the SR-2 is 'not' an ideal gaming rig, nor is any dual CPU MOBO. If you put it on water you can squeeze in: RAID, PhysX, Sound, etc. Again, it's not a 'good' gaming solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prznar1;12569322 
the nf200/plx and lucid chips are quite strange things. those lines might be called faked but tbh those chips are doing something realy funny and good. they are compressing the power impulses, they are giving more data bandwidth per lane. however i dont know how the north bridge is reacting to them. one thing is sure, ocing the nb can give a big gain.
    
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post #92 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by LethalRise750;12569268 
Not really sure how 3.0 will improve performance considering a 580 doesn't seem to even max 2.0 x16 or x8?

its not about maximising, its futureproof tech, and lower the possibility of bottleneck in crucial situations.

try to run a 6970/580 sli/cf on a pcie 1.0 8x/8x... its about same as 4x of 2.0 and this is already killing current cards. 5970 can suffer from running on 8x, so imagine the upcomming dual gpus. we are at end of 2.0 of pci-e. one or two gens and even a mainstream cards will suffer from it.
post #93 of 120
Things like this are not explicitly documented so it is difficult to find information about it unless you ask someone who already knows. It's really difficult to formulate appropriately


The PCIe 3.0 sure looks impressive as it appears to be able to offer twice the bandwidth but I'm still sceptical about it. Even though PCIe 3 is going to replace PCIe 2 there will be a considerable amount of PCIe 2 hardware circulating for quite some time to come. So the question is what happens to a PCIe 3 slot when say a PCIe 2 x8 card is inserted: Will the motherboard allocate 4 PCIe 3 lanes multiplexed into 8 PCIe 2 lanes or will it allocate 8 lanes at the reduced PCIe2 bandwidth? If the latter will happen then it is not so impressive and may lead to problems due to lane limitations.

The SR-2 has a tacky el cheapo JMicron controller to give additional SATA ports It even sports an LSI 2008 SAS/SATA controller giving 8 additional SAS/SATA
Quote:
Originally Posted by prznar1;12569367 
its not about maximising, its futureproof tech, and lower the possibility of bottleneck in crucial situations.

try to run a 6970/580 sli/cf on a pcie 1.0 8x/8x... its about same as 4x of 2.0 and this is already killing current cards. 5970 can suffer from running on 8x, so imagine the upcomming dual gpus. we are at end of 2.0 of pci-e. one or two gens and even a mainstream cards will suffer from it.

Edited by Yoko Littner - 3/1/11 at 9:01am
    
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post #94 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Littner;12569350 
The total lanes is of course an issue, but more importantly it's how they divided and the overall architecture.

You don't want to run any current high-end GPU on an x4 lane, but an x4 is perfectly fine for say a RevoDrive, and an x1 for a sound card.

but I'm not aware of anyone 'smart' putting in on water or doing what has been done to the SR-2. In either case, the SR-2 is 'not' an ideal gaming rig, nor is any dual CPU MOBO. If you put it on water you can squeeze in: RAID, PhysX, Sound, etc. Again, it's not a 'good' gaming solution.

sure its not. it will never be. to many chips, to big latency, to much stuff, that will made problems, to run smooooth. simple is always better wink.gif but giving more lanes is not best to. we could end in a day when we had 100x pci-e slots. how to manage the data run? where put what? we already seen this problem in hd5k, to much shaders, and it failed to mach hd 4k single shader performace wink.gif and it should improve it XD
post #95 of 120
The AMD 890FX for example does not outperform the X58, and typically once you go 4-WAY you're looking at x8/x8/x8/x8 and even the 2-WAY GTX 5XX running on x8/x8 will not saturate until you hit larger format 2560 X 1600 or multiple HD 1920 X 1080 monitors. Next is the architecture, the fact is the Intel is the better choice in gaming, and in the vast majority of 'computing' situations.

The problem is that even though the Board features say 7 full-length PCIe slots they all don't necessarily have full-x16 lane bandwidth. As I understand it correctly this may not be a big problem as most expansion cards will accept fewer lanes than they are designed for (even though the may not operate at full capacity).
Quote:
Originally Posted by prznar1;12569412 
sure its not. it will never be. to many chips, to big latency, to much stuff, that will made problems, to run smooooth. simple is always better wink.gif but giving more lanes is not best to. we could end in a day when we had 100x pci-e slots. how to manage the data run? where put what? we already seen this problem in hd5k, to much shaders, and it failed to mach hd 4k single shader performace wink.gif and it should improve it XD
    
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post #96 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Littner;12569382 
Things like this are not explicitly documented so it is difficult to find information about it unless you ask someone who already knows. It's really difficult to formulate appropriately


The PCIe 3.0 sure looks impressive as it appears to be able to offer twice the bandwidth but I'm still sceptical about it. Even though PCIe 3 is going to replace PCIe 2 there will be a considerable amount of PCIe 2 hardware circulating for quite some time to come. So the question is what happens to a PCIe 3 slot when say a PCIe 2 x8 card is inserted: Will the motherboard allocate 4 PCIe 3 lanes multiplexed into 8 PCIe 2 lanes or will it allocate 8 lanes at the reduced PCIe2 bandwidth? If the latter will happen then it is not so impressive and may lead to problems due to lane limitations.

The SR-2 has a tacky el cheapo JMicron controller to give additional SATA ports It even sports an LSI 2008 SAS/SATA controller giving 8 additional SAS/SATA

the performance bump on pci-e 3.0 is not from dubling the lanes. it still got 16 lanes (at max). the performance gain is from the speed of pci-e itself. the biggest problem of pci-e is that data is running slowly on it (its wide but slow river) now it will be twice faster, but same wide. MHz improvement wink.gif and that was the problem for compatibility. the code running from the 2.0 card plugged on 3.0 pci-e were getting between every single 1 or 0, a faked 0 (not that lane was adding something, the chipset didnt knew that it should pass every second mark (that should be 0) so it was messing all binary code.
post #97 of 120
If the motherboard was a little bit smarter it would instead reserve the bandwidth for each slot from a pool of lanes such that each and every lane is capable of utilizing x1-x16 depending on what the expansion card demands and how many lanes that are available. But maybe that would give rise to higher latency.
    
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post #98 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Littner;12569529 
If the motherboard was a little bit smarter it would instead reserve the bandwidth for each slot from a pool of lanes such that each and every lane is capable of utilizing x1-x16 depending on what the expansion card demands and how many lanes that are available. But maybe that would give rise to higher latency.

nah, dont think so. bigger problem is to match the timing that bits are comming in, you cannot put straight line biggrin.gif this could made a problem that one bit of data could come before the other. this is why the mini itx mobos are not so cheap, its way harder to design them, then a standard atx mobo wink.gif

well, nice OT XD
post #99 of 120
Yea.. what happned?


Quote:
Originally Posted by prznar1;12569709 
nah, dont think so. bigger problem is to match the timing that bits are comming in, you cannot put straight line biggrin.gif this could made a problem that one bit of data could come before the other. this is why the mini itx mobos are not so cheap, its way harder to design them, then a standard atx mobo wink.gif

well, nice OT XD
    
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post #100 of 120
Awesome. This thread went from how a Q6600 would pair with a 580 to discussions on NF200, Lucid, SR-2, P67 performance.
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