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[EG]New COD engine "counter-productive" - Page 24

post #231 of 258
LOL ID does make some bomb diggity engines, a lot of stuff gets based off it. Though those screenshots are misleading. Just because it's based off it doesn't mean it isn't heavily modified, to compare Q3 to the modern day COD isn't right. Those engines are as similar as we are to a chimp, which is actually quite a bit but the differences are outstanding.
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post #232 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
oh this shows how little you know...quake 3 engine is the id tech 3 engine...

urban terror uses gpl'ed id tech 3...COD uses IW engine (which is based off of the idT3 engine)...

idT3 is often refered to as the quake 3 engine...maybe the misunderstanding?
So you basically proved my comment correct: "Infinity Ward" engine is an outdated failure. I suspected it to be based on Doom 3 engine, but didn't know they actually use pretty much the same engine with some extra effects. Even Wikipedia states:

The most notable usage of the free source code is the IW engine, which is used in the Call of Duty series.

So I don't see where I was wrong and you were correct. They both use "free" source code, except IW engine being based off Doom 3 and UT being based on Quake 3 engine and source code. Difference between the two are the better animation techniques, shaders, better shadows etc but technically built on similar code I guess.

So taking a COD game, disabling shaders, shadows and some other rendering features in it with the fancy motion-captured animations, and you get Q3A...

If Urban Terror was based on Doom 3s idT3 engine and not Q3As ioquake3, they'd make it look as good as if not better than the COD games.

Good god...It all makes sense now. Black Ops = Q3A with gazillion extensions making it look "up to date", hence why it runs like crap.


Edited by Am* - 3/11/11 at 11:58am
    
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post #233 of 258
LOL @ all these game companies just flat out talking like their customers are idiots. This is almost as good as Treyarch saying game progression is being halted by "mean gamers" or whatever it was. There's probably already 24 pages in this thread calling Robert Bowling a dumb ass but yea, he's a dumb ass. *** does he actually do aside from jerking off the CoD franchise on twitter? I was a CoD fanboy up until they tried to turn it into xbox live on the PC. Now I do my part in pushing back against these POS companies.
post #234 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
I didn't know Infinity Ward made Quake 3 Arena?

And that last screenshot proves how crap the COD engine is now, if it wasn't for some of the vegetation/weather and lighting effects, it looks barely better than Q3A engine based based Urban Terror.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
So you basically proved my comment correct: "Infinity Ward" engine is an outdated failure. I suspected it to be based on Doom 3 engine, but didn't know they actually use pretty much the same engine with some extra effects. Even Wikipedia states:

The most notable usage of the free source code is the IW engine, which is used in the Call of Duty series.

So I don't see where I was wrong and you were correct. They both use "free" source code.

So taking a COD game, disabling shaders, shadows and some other rendering features in it with the fancy motion-captured animations, and you get Q3A...

If Urban Terror was based on Doom 3s idT3 engine and not Q3As ioquake3, they'd make it look as good as if not better than the COD games.

Good god...
since you obviously can't read, i will point it out.

all that in red, is incorrect.

quake 3, arena, first call of duty, all used id tech 3.

ioquake, urban terror, other OSS games, use the gpl'ed licensed version of id tech 3.

doom 3 uses id tech 4.

call of duty 2 and onward use IW engine...

iw engine IS NOT BASED ON THE OPEN SOURCE, GPL'ED VERSION OF ID TECH 3 if it was, then infinity ward would be legally obligated to push all advancments and changes back to the source code with accordance to gpl! iw engine is in fact based on a fork of the id tech 3 proprietary license, it doesn't mean it is still the same damn engine!

wiki articles are notorious for their lack of fact checking...why any respectable school doesn't allow them to be sourced in school papers! you can not vet' anonymous!

the iw engine has been upgraded and modernized, they obviously had to rework the id tech 3 engine as it used opengl...and as everyone points out COD is a xbox 360 franchise...which doesn't have opengl......i leave you to ponder your delusion and misinformation...and then attempt again to try to make me look like i some how am wrong..
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post #235 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
since you obviously can't read, i will point it out.

all that in red, is incorrect.

quake 3, arena, first call of duty, all used id tech 3.

ioquake, urban terror, other OSS games, use the gpl'ed licensed version of id tech 3.

doom 3 uses id tech 4.

call of duty 2 and onward use IW engine...

iw engine IS NOT BASED ON THE OPEN SOURCE, GPL'ED VERSION OF ID TECH 3 if it was, then infinity ward would be legally obligated to push all advancments and changes back to the source code with accordance to gpl! iw engine is in fact based on a fork of the id tech 3 proprietary license, it doesn't mean it is still the same damn engine!

wiki articles are notorious for their lack of fact checking...why any respectable school doesn't allow them to be sourced in school papers! you can not vet' anonymous!

the iw engine has been upgraded and modernized, they obviously had to rework the id tech 3 engine as it used opengl...and as everyone points out COD is a xbox 360 franchise...which doesn't have opengl......i leave you to ponder your delusion and misinformation...and then attempt again to try to make me look like i some how am wrong..
You're the one who can't read.

COD2 engine was considered "middleware" because it was just a heavily modified version of the first one, in other words, even with a whole bunch of in-house made IW's proprietary effects, it's still idT3 based.

And whether it's OpenGL or not is irrelevant, it can still be changed enough to run on DirectX/Direct3D.

And you're kidding yourself if you think IW didn't pay id one way or another for using their engine. If they can afford to use it in a downloadable portover (COD Classic), with enough money, they can pay id to change it enough for them to call it their "own proprietary engine" (which I'm willing to bet, they did).

OK, if it's such a "brand new up to date and different" engine as you say, how the hell did they get ports of it to run on the Wii??? Because it IS idT3 minus most of the effects they added.

And next time, post your reply in a sensible manner instead of making an inflammatory response.
Edited by Am* - 3/11/11 at 12:37pm
    
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post #236 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
You're the one who can't read.

COD2 engine was considered "middleware" because it was just a heavily modified version of the first one, in other words, even with a whole bunch of in-house made IW's proprietary effects, it's still idT3 based.

And whether it's OpenGL or not is irrelevant, it can still be changed enough to run on DirectX/Direct3D.

And you're kidding yourself if you think IW didn't pay id one way or another for using their engine. If they can afford to use it in a downloadable portover (COD Classic), with enough money, they can pay id to change it enough for them to call it their "own proprietary engine" (which I'm willing to bet, they did).

OK, if it's such a "brand new up to date and different" engine as you say, how the hell did they get ports of it to run on the Wii??? Because it IS idT3 minus most of the effects they added.
wow...you just don't get it do you?

ALL ENGINES ARE CONSIDERED MIDDLEWARE!

idt3 being openGL is relevant cause it just isn't a simple if/else to switch to using dx if it wasn't designed for dx9, which means somewhere along the lines they had to ADD DIRECT3D/DX9 support to it, cause id software doesn't do this.

when did i say they never paid for a proprietary use license from id? i never said that...i just said they don't use the GPL version, maybe you don't know what gpl is?

older versions

latest version

if you are willing to pay enough money, you can license just about any proprietary software to get the source code to it, and modify it as you please with the developer company's blessing...

you have no evidence that they ever paid id to have id ITSELF alter the engine, they did license it to alter it themselves...to continue to use...so i don't know why you think they paid id software ITSELF to alter the engine...and the engine only recently got a name...and at best IW engine is its unofficial name...they don't hide the fact it is based on id tech 3...but they have modernized it...

okay so ppl hate COD, cause it mainly made for consoles, i get this, its not as pretty and "realistic" as Battlefield series, i get this...COD is a cookie cutter franchise that offers no innovation in any of its series, i get this...but you are all missing one critical fact here...COD sales like ice cream at a fat camp...so i just throw this out there...is it hated cause of its success or are there really all these "problems" with it that make it not fun to play?



i honestly don't know much about the wii other than it is a great baby sitter assistant...as for what hardware and software it uses, i can't say, if it uses opengl, still not a 100% proof that it is still idt3 as one of the many functions of a engine, is to port a game to alternative platforms...
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post #237 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
wow...you just don't get it do you?

ALL ENGINES ARE CONSIDERED MIDDLEWARE!

idt3 being openGL is relevant cause it just isn't a simple if/else to switch to using dx if it wasn't designed for dx9, which means somewhere along the lines they had to ADD DIRECT3D/DX9 support to it, cause id software doesn't do this.

when did i say they never paid for a proprietary use license from id? i never said that...i just said they don't use the GPL version, maybe you don't know what gpl is?

older versions

latest version

if you are willing to pay enough money, you can license just about any proprietary software to get the source code to it, and modify it as you please with the developer company's blessing...

you have no evidence that they ever paid id to have id ITSELF alter the engine, they did license it to alter it themselves...to continue to use...so i don't know why you think they paid id software ITSELF to alter the engine...and the engine only recently got a name...and at best IW engine is its unofficial name...they don't hide the fact it is based on id tech 3...but they have modernized it...

okay so ppl hate COD, cause it mainly made for consoles, i get this, its not as pretty and "realistic" as Battlefield series, i get this...COD is a cookie cutter franchise that offers no innovation in any of its series, i get this...but you are all missing one critical fact here...COD sales like ice cream at a fat camp...so i just throw this out there...is it hated cause of its success or are there really all these "problems" with it that make it not fun to play?



i honestly don't know much about the wii other than it is a great baby sitter assistant...as for what hardware and software it uses, i can't say, if it uses opengl, still not a 100% proof that it is still idt3 as one of the many functions of a engine, is to port a game to alternative platforms...
Where the hell did I mention it used the GPL code? I said it used some "free" code, that's it. Couldn't care less about the rest, other than the fact that it's not their engine. End of story. Battlefield owns COD because the game runs well, takes advantage of new hardware and DICE are trying to innovate with great graphics, physics; the works. If the so-called "IW engine" was one made from scratch, doing a Wii portover would be going arse-backwards since they would've had to build a whole new one from the beginning just for that console: idT3 is one of the few engines that will allow this, the updated (Doom 3 based) idT3 engine would NEVER run on a Wii since it is an overclocked Gamecube at best, and id themselves said PS2/Gamecube couldn't run Doom 3 (without looking like crap). Original Xbox (that 10-ish year old dinosaur) still kicks Wii's behind hardware-wise and it ran games the Gamecube/PS2 would never be able to run, so the Wii would have NO CHANCE running IW engine if it was built from scratch (which it isn't, id can take the credit for this).
    
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post #238 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madman340 View Post
It's a good engine, why do you have such a big problem with it? If they'd just remake CoD4 with endgame kill-cams and better hit-boxes I'd be the happiest guy alive.
Yes! so much this!
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post #239 of 258
I thought EVERY Call of Duty game used the Quake engine.
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post #240 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
Where the hell did I mention it used the GPL code? I said it used some "free" code,
GPL protects that "some free code" you pointed out, and i was pointing out that if IW only used the GPL'ed source code, then they would be bound by law, to release their modifications...that is how gpl works, you can use our stuff, but we want your stuff in return...with a bit of research more than just going to wiki, you would know that the source code that was used for the IW engine, was infact released to them under a proprietary license, which allowed them to modify and use the code how they want, for as long as they wanted, without having to pushing any of their modification back to the GPL'ed code...its called dual license. so yeah it is important to discern that they didn't use it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
that's it. Couldn't care less about the rest, other than the fact that it's not their engine. End of story.
so when your argument fails, and you can't prove me wrong, the rest of the facts become irrelevant and you switch tactics?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
Battlefield owns COD because the game runs well, takes advantage of new hardware and DICE are trying to innovate with great graphics, physics; the works. If the so-called "IW engine" was one made from scratch, doing a Wii portover would be going arse-backwards since they would've had to build a whole new one from the beginning just for that console: idT3 is one of the few engines that will allow this, the updated (Doom 3 based) idT3 engine would NEVER run on a Wii since it is an overclocked Gamecube at best, and id themselves said PS2/Gamecube couldn't run Doom 3 (without looking like crap). Original Xbox (that 10-ish year old dinosaur) still kicks Wii's behind hardware-wise and it ran games the Gamecube/PS2 would never be able to run, so the Wii would have NO CHANCE running IW engine if it was built from scratch (which it isn't, id can take the credit for this).
again you seem to be confusing a lot of facts here.

a lot of game studios wont bother with creating their own engine, so they will lease a license from another company, there are actual companies out there, that all they do is create engines...and there are games developers out there that use many different types of engines inside a game...just not a single engine.

there are different levels of engines, along with type, some just do rendering, others handle physics, some do audio, video, there is even on that handles the lip syncing of rendered characters...

not sure how your logic works tbh...(example)each iteration of windows is based on the code before, so you essentially have code in windows 7, that was ported/forked/redone/remains the same as code that was in windows 2.0...windows didn't build their networking from the ground up, but chose to use BSD's as a framework...(example)

what IW does, is not abnormal or an exception to the rule, it is the rule...what DICE does, isn't always going to be the best solution...and it might even prove fatal if bf3 isn't all that it cracked up to be (it wouldn't be the first time we were mislead by pre-rendered cutscenes and "authentic gameplay" videos...) to claim greatness about an engine that no game that has be released, is using it, is not only foolish, but a poor argument maker...

again for what is red, i will retiterate for you:

doom 3's engine is not id tech 3 (i know it has to be confusing since they both have 3's in their name, but doom 3 uses id tech 4, id tech 3 was released a few years after doom 2, and released several years before doom 3.)

id tech 4 might use technology and code taken from id tech 3, but as stated before this is the rule not an exception.

and again, doom 3 uses id tech 4, probably why id said it would look like crap on a console of that era...as for why COD runs on the Wii, i'd imagine it is cause the engine is doing its job correctly, by being expanded upon for use for the wii, and its ability to port to it...again, this is a "feature" of most engines, the ability to port to several platforms using one code base...its where most gamers get the term "crappy console port" cause the game was designed for a console, and then the engine was used to port it for use on a PC...

on a side note, a personal note, an opinion, not to be confused with being a fact or stated truth...i like the COD series, i don't like BF series...frostbite 2 might be a great engine, i don't know since there are no games out that use it, and from last i heard, it will be several months (i think November) before anything that is said about it can be backed up with actual proof...

i think people get so caught up in these "engine" wars, that they miss the fundamental fact...engine's do not establish game play, they do not build story line, and they definitely don't care if you like them or not...there is a lot more to a game than what engine it uses. a lot of peoples "opinions" about this subject do not reflect the abilities of an engine...its simply ignorance of what an engine does that gets people all in a twist or have them beating the war drums for one over the other.

DICE produces their engine, but it doesn't automatically make any of their games better cause they have chosen to produce in house, over "renting" some one else's engine. we wouldn't have a lot of great games that we love, if we were really so gung ho about supporting developers that only use in house engines...

COD is a very successful franchise, millions of copies have been sold, tons of people play online, is it the ideal game, maybe not for you, but for millions who have bought it, and play, i'd imagine would disagree with your assertion it is a crappy game.

there will always people who are going to hate, and that is great cause we are allowed to develop our own opinions, but please for all things that stand for intelligence, if you are going to argue, please verify before you claim something is a fact.
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