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A Bunch of Questions about Upgrades and OCing

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Hello everyone, im new in this forum as i just discovered and found this place really interesting and helpfull, so i decided to join here to share my questions and answers with all this community and learn something out of it.
So straight to the point, my pc has an Intel Q8200 Quad Core CPU @ 2,3 GHz not overclocked with its stock cooler, that i want to overclock. So my questions are:
1)How much can i overclock this CPU with its stock cooler?(I dont know if this CPU is good in overclocking or not) And How? Would greatly appreciate if you could share links with guides/tutorials or tell me step by step how to do the whole process, as this is my first time overclocking and i no nothing about this subject......YEA IM A NEWBIE!!
2)If i buy a Cooler for my CPU like Coolermaster V8, Noctua DH-14 or even watercool it will i get a big difference in the overclock results in comparison to the stock cooler overclocking? Will that difference be worth buying the cooler? If yes which cooler would u suggest for LGA775?
3)My motherboard is a Gigabyte EP35-DS3L, i know its kinda low-class and i dont know how this affects the overcloking results or even if it limits my results..Shall i upgrade it? If yes shall i buy the best ones for a socket that is almost dead with DDR3 that will make me upgrade my RAM too or buy a budget mobo that has good overclocking capabilities and also comes with good performance and good price?
4)My RAM is DDR2 at 667, dont know if this helps u

Im sure i confused you with all these questions, but its my first time here and i know almost nothing about this subject.
Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
Hello everyone, im new in this forum as i just discovered and found this place really interesting and helpfull, so i decided to join here to share my questions and answers with all this community and learn something out of it.
Welcome to Overclock.net!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
So straight to the point, my pc has an Intel Q8200 Quad Core CPU @ 2,3 GHz not overclocked with its stock cooler, that i want to overclock. So my questions are:
1)How much can i overclock this CPU with its stock cooler?(I dont know if this CPU is good in overclocking or not) And How? Would greatly appreciate if you could share links with guides/tutorials or tell me step by step how to do the whole process, as this is my first time overclocking and i no nothing about this subject......YEA IM A NEWBIE!!
The "how" is something I can't tackle right now, but I can say that overclocking an Intel CPU with the Intel stock cooling will present a big limitation. Worse yet, the Q8200 isn't known for its overclocking abilities. :/ At best with stock cooling and with the EP35-DS3L, I would expect a max clock speed of maybe 2.8 to 2.9 GHz (and I think it's possible that I'm being a little bit generous too). The reason why I mentioned the motherboard is because the motherboard plays a huge role in the overclockability of a CPU. But, so does the power supply (more on that in a future post though).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
2)If i buy a Cooler for my CPU like Coolermaster V8, Noctua DH-14 or even watercool it will i get a big difference in the overclock results in comparison to the stock cooler overclocking? Will that difference be worth buying the cooler? If yes which cooler would u suggest for LGA775?
Good aftermarket cooling will increase the chances of exceeding 3.0 GHz with this CPU because the temperatures would be lowered. You see, excessive heat is one cause of instability which is why Intel's stock cooling is a limiting factor on the overclock. I mean, it just can't dissipate the heat fast enough to keep the temperature low enough to avoid instability.

But generally speaking: good aftermarket cooling makes a big difference! The better the cooling is at dissipating heat, the higher the potential overclock is in comparison to the stock cooling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
3)My motherboard is a Gigabyte EP35-DS3L, i know its kinda low-class and i dont know how this affects the overcloking results or even if it limits my results..Shall i upgrade it? If yes shall i buy the best ones for a socket that is almost dead with DDR3 that will make me upgrade my RAM too or buy a budget mobo that has good overclocking capabilities and also comes with good performance and good price?
I think it depends on your budget since getting a 775 board with DDR3 slots means you have to buy new memory. I think it can also depend on how serious you want to be about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
4)My RAM is DDR2 at 667, dont know if this helps u
If I remember correctly, then this will be another limiting factor on the overclock. So maybe it would be a good idea to just get a good 775 board with DDR3 slots! And then maybe you could save up for a nice overclocking CPU such as the Q9450, or the Q9550. Or perhaps even a very nice Core2 Duo such as the E8400 (the E8600 is better, but it still has a price that's similar to the Q9450 and Q9550). Another decent Core2 Duo is the E7400. Of course, I doubt that anyone with a Quad would feel comfortable replacing it with a dual core. However, these two dual cores in particular are better overclockers than the Q8200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
Im sure i confused you with all these questions, but its my first time here and i know almost nothing about this subject.
Thanks in advance.
Be aware though that there may be many people recommending that you build an entirely new system by going straight from the Intel Core2 series to their new i-Series (like the i5 or i7). Of course, this would cost more money, and I'm about spending the least amount possible while still getting a good value.
Edited by TwoCables - 3/2/11 at 9:19pm
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post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
Welcome to Overclock.net!!


The "how" is something I can't tackle right now, but I can say that overclocking an Intel CPU with the Intel stock cooling will present a big limitation. Worse yet, the Q8200 isn't known for its overclocking abilities. :/ At best with stock cooling and with the EP35-DS3L, I would expect a max clock speed of maybe 2.8 to 2.9 GHz (and I think it's possible that I'm being a little bit generous too). The reason why I mentioned the motherboard is because the motherboard plays a huge role in the overclockability of a CPU. But, so does the power supply (more on that in a future post though).


Good aftermarket cooling will increase the chances of exceeding 3.0 GHz with this CPU because the temperatures would be lowered. You see, excessive heat is one cause of instability which is why Intel's stock cooling is a limiting factor on the overclock. I mean, it just can't dissipate the heat fast enough to keep the temperature low enough to avoid instability.

But generally speaking: good aftermarket cooling makes a big difference! The better the cooling is at dissipating heat, the higher the potential overclock is in comparison to the stock cooling.


I think it depends on your budget since getting a 775 board with DDR3 slots means you have to buy new memory. I think it can also depend on how serious you want to be about this.


If I remember correctly, then this will be another limiting factor on the overclock. So maybe it would be a good idea to just get a good 775 board with DDR3 slots! And then maybe you could save up for a nice overclocking CPU such as the Q9450, or the Q9550. Or perhaps even a very nice Core2 Duo such as the E8400 (the E8600 is better, but it still has a price that's similar to the Q9450 and Q9550). Another decent Core2 Duo is the E7400. Of course, I doubt that anyone with a Quad would feel comfortable replacing it with a dual core. However, these two dual cores in particular are better overclockers than the Q8200.


Be aware though that there may be many people recommending that you build an entirely new system by going straight from the Intel Core2 series to their new i-Series (like the i5 or i7). Of course, this would cost more money, and I'm about spending the least amount possible while still getting a good value.
first of all, thanks a lot for your instant help. Every single word is greatly appreciated. I also would like to know if its worth upgrading my mobo+ram (which i have to upgrade both, since ddr2 is dead and most memories out are ddr3) and maybe the CPU with a more overclockable for a socket that its almost done and replaced with better ones. I dont know when i will be buying a new computer system(its a decision i make in some hours before the next day i buy it ) so i dont know how long i can hold on this machine...but i believe lga775 CPUs prices went down since the new sockets came out..!!
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post #4 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
first of all, thanks a lot for your instant help. Every single word is greatly appreciated. I also would like to know if its worth upgrading my mobo+ram (which i have to upgrade both, since ddr2 is dead and most memories out are ddr3) and maybe the CPU with a more overclockable for a socket that its almost done and replaced with better ones. I dont know when i will be buying a new computer system(its a decision i make in some hours before the next day i buy it ) so i dont know how long i can hold on this machine...but i believe lga775 CPUs prices went down since the new sockets came out..!!
From what I've seen the EP35 can be a good clocker. The Q8200 is not. If you can happen on a G0 Q6600, you could have great chances of getting a 3.6GHz OC with the hardware that you already have. That would be a huge improvement over the 2.3GHz you're at, and the Q6600 is around $100-120 on ebay. If you're a smart ebayer you can get a good G0.

Otherwise you could move to AMD platform and build a 3.7-4.0GHz quad with DDR3 for pretty cheap with all new parts. The caveat is, at 3.7-3.8GHz, a Phenom II will be about as fast as the 3.6 Q6600.
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post #5 of 10
Just in case: "G0" refers to the stepping (it's a G followed by a zero, not the letter "o"). The Q6600 is a 65nm Core2 Quad while the Q8200 is a 45nm Core2 Quad. With the Q6600, there were two steppings that we are aware of: B3 and G0. The B3s are inferior overclockers in comparison to the G0s, and fortunately the G0s are much easier to find than the B3s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
first of all, thanks a lot for your instant help. Every single word is greatly appreciated.
You're very welcome! To me, it's a privilege to be able to help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
I also would like to know if its worth upgrading my mobo+ram (which i have to upgrade both, since ddr2 is dead and most memories out are ddr3) and maybe the CPU with a more overclockable for a socket that its almost done and replaced with better ones.
I suppose it can be worth it, but of course it can depend on you as well. I mean, take my sig rig for example (the system in my signature): for some people, it's weak and out-dated. But for me, it's more than I need and it will continue being more than I need for at least the next 2-4 years. I mean, I just don't do much with my computer. I only have a handful of games, and even then I don't play them very often. Although I admit that I do have a desire to at least upgrade to the Q9550, but that's it.

So some people will try to tell you that you would be better off building a completely new i7 system while I try to take more of a practical approach by asking if it's truly worth it. I mean, it's certainly a personal decision that can depend on many factors, many of which only you can determine. For some people, overclocking and keeping up with the latest technology is a way of life. For others (like me), it's far more casual. For example, my reason for overclocking is simple: I did it because I can, except I originally didn't have any interest in it - all I wanted was a modern system for the first time in my life. I mean, I didn't have any practical reason for overclocking at all; I just kinda set it, tested it, and forgot about it. And fortunately, my entire system is overkill for my needs.

So for me, it wouldn't be worth upgrading anything (except for maybe from the E8400 to the Q9550).

But I will say that I bet that it would be worth upgrading at least the CPU and memory right along with the CPU cooling because the EP35-DS3L isn't that bad actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
I dont know when i will be buying a new computer system(its a decision i make in some hours before the next day i buy it ) so i dont know how long i can hold on this machine...but i believe lga775 CPUs prices went down since the new sockets came out..!!
Here's what I meant (I know you're in Greece, so I apologize for the USD prices):

The E7400 can be had for $99-$120

The E8400 can be had for roughly $150-$170

The E8600 can be had for about $280-$290

The Q9450 can be had for $210 to about $310

The Q9550 can be had for about $260 to around $280 (it's more popular than the Q9450)

Now, out of all five of these processors, my vote goes for the E8400 for the sheer value (best bang-for-buck out of all of them). You get a fast CPU (stock of 3.0 GHz) that is loved by many gamers, great overclockability, 6 MB of cache, and a price that's much lower than the E8600, Q9450, and Q9550.

But if you want to play certain games like Grand Theft Auto IV, then a quad is a better choice because this game seems to be quite optimized for quad core CPUs (I don't own it, but I'm going by what I've read here on OCN). So this would mean the Q9450 or Q9550 would be the best choice.

Before I forget, make sure you get an "OEM" version because the Retail packages contain an Intel stock cooler which you don't need. So the only difference between OEM and Retail is what comes with the processor itself.

As for the memory, I think really good DDR2 memory (like the memory I have) can make quite a difference and it doesn't have to break the bank either. Or, you can get something like the EP45T-USB3P which is essentially the USB 3.0 and DDR3 version of the EP45-UD3P, and the EP45-UD3P is considered to be the best 775 overclocking board there is. So I mean you could get this board, an E8400, some good DDR3 memory, and a decent aftermarket cooler. This would be a very solid overclocking and gaming build while hopefully not breaking the bank!

But then I suppose some people would say that we could just go right to Intel's i-Series, however I don't know how much more money that would cost (I haven't looked around because I'd rather not tempt myself because then I'd definitely be making some unnecessary purchases. lol)

Fortunately, Overclock.net can help you pick everything out - just as long as they know you live in Greece! I mean, most people tend to post Newegg links, and Newegg doesn't ship internationally.

So on one hand, I guess it can be worth upgrading, but I also see it as a matter of what's practical to you.

Oh, and you might be noticing here that I'm only recommending Intel. My reason for that is I am under the impression that Intel CPUs are a little easier to overclock than AMD's. Plus, it's a little bit easier to find help with overclocking an Intel system than it is with an AMD system. However, a ton of money can be saved by building an AMD system, which means you get way more bang for your buck!

Sigh. Decisions, decisions.
Edited by TwoCables - 3/3/11 at 12:45pm
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post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
Just in case: "G0" refers to the stepping (it's a G followed by a zero, not the letter "o"). The Q6600 is a 65nm Core2 Quad while the Q8200 is a 45nm Core2 Quad. With the Q6600, there were two steppings that we are aware of: B3 and G0. The B3s are inferior overclockers in comparison to the G0s, and fortunately the G0s are much easier to find than the B3s.


You're very welcome! To me, it's a privilege to be able to help!


I suppose it can be worth it, but of course it can depend on you as well. I mean, take my sig rig for example (the system in my signature): for some people, it's weak and out-dated. But for me, it's more than I need and it will continue being more than I need for at least the next 2-4 years. I mean, I just don't do much with my computer. I only have a handful of games, and even then I don't play them very often. Although I admit that I do have a desire to at least upgrade to the Q9550, but that's it.

So some people will try to tell you that you would be better off building a completely new i7 system while I try to take more of a practical approach by asking if it's truly worth it. I mean, it's certainly a personal decision that can depend on many factors, many of which only you can determine. For some people, overclocking and keeping up with the latest technology is a way of life. For others (like me), it's far more casual. For example, my reason for overclocking is simple: I did it because I can, except I originally didn't have any interest in it - all I wanted was a modern system for the first time in my life. I mean, I didn't have any practical reason for overclocking at all; I just kinda set it, tested it, and forgot about it. And fortunately, my entire system is overkill for my needs.

So for me, it wouldn't be worth upgrading anything (except for maybe from the E8400 to the Q9550).

But I will say that I bet that it would be worth upgrading at least the CPU and memory right along with the CPU cooling because the EP35-DS3L isn't that bad actually.


Here's what I meant (I know you're in Greece, so I apologize for the USD prices):

The E7400 can be had for $99-$120

The E8400 can be had for roughly $150-$170

The E8600 can be had for about $280-$290

The Q9450 can be had for $210 to about $310

The Q9550 can be had for about $260 to around $280 (it's more popular than the Q9450)

Now, out of all five of these processors, my vote goes for the E8400 for the sheer value (best bang-for-buck out of all of them). You get a fast CPU (stock of 3.0 GHz) that is loved by many gamers, great overclockability, 6 MB of cache, and a price that's much lower than the E8600, Q9450, and Q9550.

But if you want to play certain games like Grand Theft Auto IV, then a quad is a better choice because this game seems to be quite optimized for quad core CPUs (I don't own it, but I'm going by what I've read here on OCN). So this would mean the Q9450 or Q9550 would be the best choice.

Before I forget, make sure you get an "OEM" version because the Retail packages contain an Intel stock cooler which you don't need. So the only difference between OEM and Retail is what comes with the processor itself.

As for the memory, I think really good DDR2 memory (like the memory I have) can make quite a difference and it doesn't have to break the bank either. Or, you can get something like the EP45T-USB3P which is essentially the USB 3.0 and DDR3 version of the EP45-UD3P, and the EP45-UD3P is considered to be the best 775 overclocking board there is. So I mean you could get this board, an E8400, some good DDR3 memory, and a decent aftermarket cooler. This would be a very solid overclocking and gaming build while hopefully not breaking the bank!

But then I suppose some people would say that we could just go right to Intel's i-Series, however I don't know how much more money that would cost (I haven't looked around because I'd rather not tempt myself because then I'd definitely be making some unnecessary purchases. lol)

Fortunately, Overclock.net can help you pick everything out - just as long as they know you live in Greece! I mean, most people tend to post Newegg links, and Newegg doesn't ship internationally.

So on one hand, I guess it can be worth upgrading, but I also see it as a matter of what's practical to you.

Oh, and you might be noticing here that I'm only recommending Intel. My reason for that is I am under the impression that Intel CPUs are a little easier to overclock than AMD's. Plus, it's a little bit easier to find help with overclocking an Intel system than it is with an AMD system. However, a ton of money can be saved by building an AMD system, which means you get way more bang for your buck!

Sigh. Decisions, decisions.
ok u just convinced me..!! are u a lawyer or something? hehehe
so, i will be buying probably a new cpu like the e8400 and a cooler for sure. maybe the USB3(also doesnt it come in X48 chipset? isnt that better than P45?) is a good idea too cause i heard too about the UD3P OC capabilities, if i get more money for the ram+mobo package..So for now until i buy those or until they are shipped could someone post a link with a guide on how can i overclock my cpu for now with its stock cooler? i dont care if it doesnt reach 2.8 GHz, im just so excited that i want to learn how to do it and test it right now!! eitherway shipping will take more than 2 weeks to reach Greece :/ its kinda far away
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post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 
i also found both E8400 and Q6600 and at the same price both...i dont know which one to buy i found an EP35-DQ6 as well for like 60€ which is like 40 USD..dont know if its worth it..!! help plz
Edited by Heartl3ss - 3/4/11 at 2:45am
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post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
anyone to give me a guide please?
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post #9 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
ok u just convinced me..!! are u a lawyer or something? hehehe
so, i will be buying probably a new cpu like the e8400 and a cooler for sure. maybe the USB3(also doesnt it come in X48 chipset? isnt that better than P45?) is a good idea too cause i heard too about the UD3P OC capabilities, if i get more money for the ram+mobo package..So for now until i buy those or until they are shipped could someone post a link with a guide on how can i overclock my cpu for now with its stock cooler? i dont care if it doesnt reach 2.8 GHz, im just so excited that i want to learn how to do it and test it right now!! eitherway shipping will take more than 2 weeks to reach Greece :/ its kinda far away
I'm just extremely passionate about this stuff, that's all.

Anyway, if we stay with 775, then I can confidently say that based on what I've seen around here on Overclock.net, the EP45T-US3BP is every bit as good as the EP45-UD3P, except the EP45-UD3P is very difficult to find brand new these days while the EP45T-US3BP might be easier to find.

In regards to X48 vs. P45: I don't know, but I can say that my experience on Overclock.net leaves me with the impression that the P45 chipset is better for overclocking than the X48. However, I don't know if this is absolutely true. Unfortunately, I only have experience with the NVIDIA 680i SLI chipset and the Intel P45. I also have extremely limited experience with the P35 chipset, but I feel that it's not enough experience to be worth anything.

Anyway, I think the guides here on OCN are ok, but would it be better if someone were to help you day to day (hopefully) in a thread? I probably wouldn't be able to do it, but I know that there are people on here who can.

I'm curious though, and this relates to overclocking: which power supply do you have? I mean, what's the brand and model?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartl3ss View Post
i also found both E8400 and Q6600 and at the same price both...i dont know which one to buy i found an EP35-DQ6 as well for like 60€ which is like 40 USD..dont know if its worth it..!! help plz
I don't know if the DQ6 is worth it either, but even if it's better, then it would mean you'd still be with the P35 chipset.

But in regards to the Q6600 vs. the E8400: I vote for the E8400 because a friend and I built a system for him that has an abit brand "P35 Pro" model motherboard with the Q6600 in it, and it felt slower than my E8400 clock-for-clock - and I made that comparison back when I had the NVIDIA 680i SLI chipset! I mean, when I overclocked his Q6600 to 3.0 GHz (the stock speed of the E8400), it still felt slower than my E8400. I mean, my E8400 feels snappier, quicker to respond, and more agile.

Anyway, if you want to get serious about overclocking, then it'll be important to invest in the best motherboard you can afford, some good memory, and even a good power supply if you don't already have one (the power supply is a much bigger factor than most people realize). Of course, it is still important to get a good cooler for the CPU, but I didn't want to say something you already knew.

However, even having said all that, I think the main concerns for noticeably better/easier overclocking are the Q8200, the memory, and possibly the power supply (and of course, the cooling again). I mean, the EP35-DS3L isn't a bad motherboard for overclocking. Sure, it's not great for overclocking, but it was still recommended fairly frequently when it was a new to the market! So you could get something like the Q9550 now and put it in the EP35-DS3L, save up for something like the EP45T-US3BP (or the EP45-UD3P if you can find one), and then you could finish up by saving for some good memory (and maybe a power supply, depending on what you have now)!

But of course, you could also see about making an i7 or i5 system too. But that would be way out of my league... But you'd be working with mainstream products which means that you might be able to get something quite a bit better without spending more. I mean, I figure that if you're going to replace the CPU, motherboard, and memory, then upgrading to an i7 or i5 system could possibly be the best option. But I am only guessing because I don't know for sure about the prices.

Finally, if you're serious about this, then I recommend making a thread in the "Intel - General" forum on here to ask for help in building a system that would be better for overclocking than what you have now without breaking the bank (while again, making sure everyone knows you're in Greece).
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post #10 of 10
P45 all the way. Look for the board in my sig rig and you'll be good to max out any of the Core 2 series.

HOWEVER:
1: You need to ditch your DDR2 667.
2: You're talking about a new board AND a new CPU.

The greatest of the 775 boards are all out of production. You have to look to Ebay (or OCN classifieds maybe) to get one. Then you have to ebay a CPU, and finally buy your RAM which you can get new, but DDR2 is MORE expensive than DDR3.

I'm a lover of all things 775, but at this point, you must consider that spending the same money on AMD could buy you all brand new parts (with return policies), with less of a gamble than buying ebay parts that may be second or third hand by now.

If I were in your position I'd probably build an AMD system.
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