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[ENG]It's Apple's 'post-PC' world -- we're all just living in it - Page 34  

post #331 of 377
"Apple's 'post-PC' world" Okay. Are they on drugs? More like Apple's BS fantasy world.

The PC is the king of the 21st century. Apple is irrelevant and just a marketing 'image'.
Edited by Ding Chavez - 3/14/11 at 7:36pm
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post #332 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ding Chavez View Post
"Apple's 'post-PC' world" Okay. Are they on drugs? More like Apple's BS fantasy world.

The PC is the king of the 21st century. Apple is irrelevant and just a marketing 'image'.
Apple is not irrelevant, they have a higher market cap than Microsoft, and while Microsoft always has a strong Q2, expect Apple to start making more money than Microsoft later this year.

In the last 10 years we've seen Google grow from nothing to arguably the most important tech company, and in the last 5 years we've seen Android, iOS, and even Microsoft Phone 7 and WebOS take significant hold in the ecosystem. New "killer apps" are all web based these days, which means they are inherently platform agnostic. Facebook, Twitter and Youtube are not locked up like Microsoft Word was.

The PC is rapidly becoming a stale commodity. It doesn't take much foresight to see that the future of computing is a rich and diverse ecosystem of (non-PC) devices from smartphones to smartcars all tied together through cross platform, web-based technology. This is what the post-PC world means.
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post #333 of 377
The consumer market is different from the business reality that the world runs on PCs.

Imagine if all PCs in the world were shut down, complete economic meltdown, business at a stand still.
Imagine if all Apple's were shut down, probably a minor inconvenience.
Edited by Ding Chavez - 3/14/11 at 8:29pm
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post #334 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild View Post
But their tendency to overcharge their sheepish customers, their constant claims of being superior to every other company as well as their hardheaded fanboys make Apple hardly a likeable company.
From a business perspective, I'll take "profitable" over "likeable" any day. Typically it is hard to be crazy profitable if you are particularly disliked, with maybe the exception of Wall Street and Big Oil. But Apple does not fall into that camp...it is disliked by a certain segment, beloved by another segment, with a whole spectrum of opinions in-between.

But what I really wanted to respond to here was the allusion you made that claiming superiority is somehow a "Bad Thing". Find me a single company whose marketing says "We know we're inferior but please buy from us anyway" and I'll be wildly surprised. That's not how business operates. Have you ever watched or read a single advertisement about any product? They all claim that they are superior than the competition...ALWAYS. At least where legal...the potential for false advertising lawsuits where specific claims enable that lead to a lot of "No competitor is better than us" type of ads (e.g. "No paper towel is more absorbent", which sounds like "We're more absorbent than everyone else" but actually does not say that.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ding Chavez View Post
The PC is the king of the 21st century. Apple is irrelevant and just a marketing 'image'.
Wrong. PC (actually desktop computing) was king of the late 20th century. It will be laregly irrelevant by 2020.

And calling the second largest market cap company in the world "irrelevant" displays a complete misunderstanding of the business world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechtech View Post
Apple is not irrelevant, they have a higher market cap than Microsoft, and while Microsoft always has a strong Q2, expect Apple to start making more money than Microsoft later this year.
Correct. And just to emphasize the point, Apple has a larger market cap than every company in the world except Exxon Mobile.

Quote:
The PC is rapidly becoming a stale commodity. It doesn't take much foresight to see that the future of computing is a rich and diverse ecosystem of (non-PC) devices from smartphones to smartcars all tied together through cross platform, web-based technology. This is what the post-PC world means.
Double correct. Rep+ for being one of the few around here who recognize the evolving technology world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ding Chavez View Post
The consumer market is different from the business reality that the world runs on PCs.
Partially correct as of today, but significantly less so than even a couple of years ago. Box PCs are still the norm because they are cheapest, not because they are the most efficient machines. With the ridiculous pace at which mobile computing (be it smartphones, tablets, or even just more powerful laptops) is evolving, the desk PC is an endangered species. I say again, I predict that by 2020 the box PC will be the exception, not the rule. Knowledge workers will be using mobile devices, and less demanding workloads will be handled on virtual desktops running on thin clients.
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post #335 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
From a business perspective, I'll take "profitable" over "likeable" any day. Typically it is hard to be crazy profitable if you are particularly disliked, with maybe the exception of Wall Street and Big Oil. But Apple does not fall into that camp...it is disliked by a certain segment, beloved by another segment, with a whole spectrum of opinions in-between.

But what I really wanted to respond to here was the allusion you made that claiming superiority is somehow a "Bad Thing". Find me a single company whose marketing says "We know we're inferior but please buy from us anyway" and I'll be wildly surprised. That's not how business operates. Have you ever watched or read a single advertisement about any product? They all claim that they are superior than the competition...ALWAYS. At least where legal...the potential for false advertising lawsuits where specific claims enable that lead to a lot of "No competitor is better than us" type of ads (e.g. "No paper towel is more absorbent", which sounds like "We're more absorbent than everyone else" but actually does not say that.)
Well here's the thing, although all companies do claim that their products are better than the competition, Apple says its products are not only the best, but will also lead humans to the promised land and are gifts directly from God.

Here's an example, when the iPad came, Apple made such a huge fuss claiming it was "revolutionary" and "magical." First of all tablet PCs existed before the iPad, and secondly, the iPad is just an iPod touch with an enlarged screen. It is nothing revolutionary. I mean other tech companies such as Intel, IBM, nVidia, AMD, Toshiba, Samsung, LG, Microsoft and Sony come up with far more revolutionary stuff and don't even make a tenth of the fuss that Apple and its fans do.

I guess it's Apple's status as a cult more than a brand that sickens me. Apple is just another major tech company, however many people think they're a holy company from the kingdom of God led by the prophet Jobs, directly shipping out items from heaven. Well, slight exaggeration, but the point remains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
Wrong. PC (actually desktop computing) was king of the late 20th century. It will be laregly irrelevant by 2020.
Actually, PCs are not going anywhere. PC sales are continually increasing both in the consumer and business realms, and also the PC has a very strong backbone in the business sector. The PC is here to stay.

If it's anything that's going it would be Apple's third Post-PC device (the iPad) which is more or less a trend item, similar to netbooks. Also important to note that iPod sales are decreasing too, but then again that's a saturated market.
Edited by born2bwild - 3/15/11 at 12:30pm
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post #336 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild View Post
Well here's the thing, although all companies do claim that their products are better than the competition, Apple simply says its the best, will lead humans to the promised land and is a gift directly from God.

Here's an example, when the iPad came, Apple made such a huge fuss claiming it was "revolutionary" and "magical."
You're not saying anything that I haven't already argued. Every company says this. "Revolutionary" is such an overused buzzword in marketing circles that only a complete moron would actually take it seriously. Apple is doing exactly what everyone else does in marketing; but somehow Apple is a deceitful devil because of it? Hate the game, not the playa.

And please don't add stupid hyperbole to Apple's marketing. Never once have they said anything about "promised land" or "gift from God". Saying they are the best is what everyone does...and that's enough hyperbole for us all.

Quote:
First of all tablet PCs existed before the iPad,
So stipulated. However, you must recognize that the iPad is the first tablet computer than was actually wanted in mass quantities. Just like the iPod was not the first music player, and the iPhone was not the first smartphone, the iPad is just the first product in its class that people actually want. That is a non-trivial distinction that people making your argument repeatedly choose to ignore.

Quote:
and secondly, the iPad is just an iPod touch with an enlarged screen.
And now you sound like an Apple hater that has never used either device.

Answer me this: If an iPad is just a big iPod Touch, what are all of these tablets trying to hard to scratch out a tiny bit of the iPad's marketshare? They sure look like copies of the iPad...which makes them copies of an iPod Touch too. Or maybe they are copies of Android phones...but how would that be better than the iPod/iPad relationship?

Quote:
It is nothing revolutionary. I mean other tech companies such as Intel, IBM, nVidia, AMD, Toshiba, Samsung, LG, Microsoft and Sony come up with far more revolutionary stuff and don't even make a tenth of the fuss that Apple and its fans do.
I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone knowledgable about computers use "Microsoft" and "revolutionary" in the same sentence. Maybe Bill Gates, I suppose, but he's a little biased.

As for the others...meh, you're comparing apples to oranges in some cases, and I wouldn't agree that some of those companies are as revolutionary as you make out. But I'm not going to get into that...if we compare Apple to every single company on the planet individually, yes, I am sure you will find plenty of examples where we would all agree Apple is the less "revolutionary" company. So what? How does that apply to the discussion at hand? Is only the one true perfect company permitted to make marketing statements?

Quote:
Actually, PCs are not going anywhere. PC sales are continually increasing both in the consumer and business realms, and also the PC has a very strong backbone in the business sector. The PC is not going anywhere.

If it's anything that's going it would be the tablet PCs which are more or less a trend item, similar to netbooks.
Oh my, the cluelessness. Learn the industry, for pete's sake.

PC sales are certainly experiencing an uptick right now due to pent up demand from the recession. They are also cheaper than laptops. And they are also easier to secure than mobile devices.

But the lines are all pointing up for the other form factors. Tablets are not going to be a trend any more than smartphones are a trend...they enable a significantly greater mobility than even a laptop does; albeit at a lower capability to run all software, but certainly the ability to run software a business person needs to get his job done. The primary things holding back an explosion of mobile devices in the enterprise are a) they are still new and "unknown" to IT, and b) the security implications have yet to be fully nailed down (a side effect of (a)).

On another front, the cost of maintaining desktop PCs remains high. You may not have an idea what it's like to maintain a fleet of PCs...don't try to compare what you do with your personal to maintaining a fleet of hundreds or thousands of endpoints, that's a horrible fallacy that would make you look silly. VDI, or whatever flavor of thin client provisioning you prefer, resolves a lot of those issues. Eventually, people with "real" PCs in the enterprise will be a small minority compared to those who have a virtual desktop provisioned to them over the wire.

And coincidentally, VDI dovetails nicely with the highly mobile workforce who want to use tablets, or whatever. They can get to their "real" work desktop as needed, provisioned over the air to their iPad or Xoom, or whatever.

This techology is obviously not science fiction, nor even rampant speculation...it is in place and working in some shops today. Its uptake will only increase over time. And so I say again, I stand by my preciction that by 2020 the desktop PC will be the abnormal case for almost everyone. Big desktops will be relegated to power users (CAD, engineers, Pixar, etc.) and PC enthusiasts.
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post #337 of 377
The desktop PC will always be the backbone of business. No one wants to type all day long on a laptop and look at a tiny screen.
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post #338 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ding Chavez View Post
The consumer market is different from the business reality that the world runs on PCs.

Imagine if all PCs in the world were shut down, complete economic meltdown, business at a stand still.
Imagine if all Apple's were shut down, probably a minor inconvenience.

I think it was Gates who declared he wanted to see a PC (running Windows, albeit) in every houeshold back in the 90's. Apple has never set such lofty goals. In fact Apple most likely never will because Steve Jobs did says it's not in their DNA to build a quality laptop for $500. Seeing a Mac in every household, dorm room, and desktop at work is like Cadillac, Porsche or BMW saying we want to see our vehicles in every driveway... just not going to happen!
Edited by HrlmWrld - 3/15/11 at 12:59pm
    
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post #339 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by strap624 View Post
The desktop PC will always be the backbone of business. No one wants to type all day long on a laptop and look at a tiny screen.
Personally I hate laptops when I do use mine it's briefly inside a restaurant or in bed, I prefer a box under the table and the visual real-estate of a 24" monitor. Then again a powerful laptop docked to a monitor is having your cake and eating it too.
    
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post #340 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
And now you sound like an Apple hater that has never used either device.

Answer me this: If an iPad is just a big iPod Touch, what are all of these tablets trying to hard to scratch out a tiny bit of the iPad's marketshare? They sure look like copies of the iPad...which makes them copies of an iPod Touch too. Or maybe they are copies of Android phones...but how would that be better than the iPod/iPad relationship?
Actually, the thinly veiled line between smartphones, tablets, and music devices is fading with time. So to answer your questions, yes the Android tablets are very similar to Android phones, and the relationship of the two remains analogous to the iPod/iPad relationship.

I'm not saying this is necessarily bad, and I'm not saying the iPad does not have its proper uses differing from the iPod. I'm simply pointing out that it is in essence an iPod touch with an enlarged screen, and hence it is not revolutionary.

Also, to clarify I have an iPod touch myself, and my sister has an iPad, so I am well familiar with both devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone knowledgable about computers use "Microsoft" and "revolutionary" in the same sentence. Maybe Bill Gates, I suppose, but he's a little biased.
No matter how much you like or dislike Microsoft, you cannot deny the immense contributions they have made to the software industry. In the period from the early 90s to the mid 2000's, most if not all of software advances were made by Microsoft.

Compare Windows XP to Windows 3.0 just to have an idea of how much innovation occurred in that timeframe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
PC sales are certainly experiencing an uptick right now due to pent up demand from the recession. They are also cheaper than laptops. And they are also easier to secure than mobile devices.

But the lines are all pointing up for the other form factors. Tablets are not going to be a trend any more than smartphones are a trend...they enable a significantly greater mobility than even a laptop does; albeit at a lower capability to run all software, but certainly the ability to run software a business person needs to get his job done. The primary things holding back an explosion of mobile devices in the enterprise are a) they are still new and "unknown" to IT, and b) the security implications have yet to be fully nailed down (a side effect of (a)).

On another front, the cost of maintaining desktop PCs remains high. You may not have an idea what it's like to maintain a fleet of PCs...don't try to compare what you do with your personal to maintaining a fleet of hundreds or thousands of endpoints, that's a horrible fallacy that would make you look silly. VDI, or whatever flavor of thin client provisioning you prefer, resolves a lot of those issues. Eventually, people with "real" PCs in the enterprise will be a small minority compared to those who have a virtual desktop provisioned to them over the wire.

And coincidentally, VDI dovetails nicely with the highly mobile workforce who want to use tablets, or whatever. They can get to their "real" work desktop as needed, provisioned over the air to their iPad or Xoom, or whatever.

This techology is obviously not science fiction, nor even rampant speculation...it is in place and working in some shops today. Its uptake will only increase over time. And so I say again, I stand by my preciction that by 2020 the desktop PC will be the abnormal case for almost everyone. Big desktops will be relegated to power users (CAD, engineers, Pixar, etc.) and PC enthusiasts.
Well first of all, I'd like to clarify something, laptops are PCs. Apple also agrees on that definition (classifying its iPod, iPhone and iPad as Post-PC devices but not its laptops).

So while clunky desktops will eventually disappear in the consumer segments since mobility is a very important factor (and technological advances continue to allow us to have great mobility with better performance), laptops, however, will remain largely dominant especially in the consumer sector.

Also, this VDI technology you mention is fairly common and available in most companies. But you see, corporates have a large amount of confidential information, and as you know what is encrypted can be decrypted. So many remain unwilling to share so much of their sensitive information to their workers outside of their own facilities, and that is why desktop PCs will remain there.

And finally, I would appreciate if you could keep the conversation about Apple, or any related tech discussions we're having, and not on my personal faults of being "clueless" or anything similar you might think I am.
Edited by born2bwild - 3/15/11 at 1:23pm
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LG BD Combo Corsair H70 Windows 8 64-bit HP ZR30W (2560*1600) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech 920-000914 OCZ ZX 1250W CM 690 II Advanced Logitech G500 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Razer Goliathus Audez'e LCD-2 Schiit Lyr + NuForce HD DAC Blue Yeti Microphone 
AudioAudioOtherOther
Logitech G35 Altec Lansing 2.0 7 Scythe Ultra Kaze fans @ 3000rpm Scythe Kaze Fan controller 
Other
Logitech C900 Webcam 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5-6360U 1536MB Iris Graphics 540 8GB RAM 256GB SSD 
OSMonitor
Mac OS X 2560-by-1600 resolution IPS display 
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iMac 5k Late 2015
(11 items)
 
The Overlord
(25 items)
 
 
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i7 6700K Custom Apple Motherboard AMD Radeon R9 M395X 4GB 16GB 1867Mhz DDR3 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
3TB Apple Fusion Drive 4TB WD Elements External Drive Mac OS X 5120‑by‑2880, 10-bit IPS 
KeyboardMouseAudio
Apple Magic Keyboard Apple Magic Trackpad 2, Razer Deathadder 2013 Bose Companion 2 Series iii 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 970 @ 4.4 Ghz Asus P6X58D-E EVGA GTX 680 SLI @ 1200Mhz 12GB Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 Pro SSD 2 * 1TB WD Black 5 * 2TB Hitachi LaCie 1TB External HDD 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG BD Combo Corsair H70 Windows 8 64-bit HP ZR30W (2560*1600) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech 920-000914 OCZ ZX 1250W CM 690 II Advanced Logitech G500 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Razer Goliathus Audez'e LCD-2 Schiit Lyr + NuForce HD DAC Blue Yeti Microphone 
AudioAudioOtherOther
Logitech G35 Altec Lansing 2.0 7 Scythe Ultra Kaze fans @ 3000rpm Scythe Kaze Fan controller 
Other
Logitech C900 Webcam 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5-6360U 1536MB Iris Graphics 540 8GB RAM 256GB SSD 
OSMonitor
Mac OS X 2560-by-1600 resolution IPS display 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [ENG]It's Apple's 'post-PC' world -- we're all just living in it