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[ENG]It's Apple's 'post-PC' world -- we're all just living in it - Page 37  

post #361 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by scyy;12782158 
anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Statistically speaking apple is still far, far in the minority everywhere but the tablet market(who would have guessed with no competition up till now) and is becoming more and more of the minority in the smartphone market.


Statistically what percentage does Apple have of:

Consumer satisfaction ratings?
The laptop market?
Mp3 Players? 76%
Smartphones?
Design Professional market?
Digital music sales?
Digital app sales?
Downloadable video?

Most importantly what are there margins? I posted a $399 PC, that is OS, 22" monitor, E5700 etc. How many of those does Dell need to sell to profit the same as a one iMac sale? A mac mini is not really faster except for video, and it costs 699, no monitor, no mouse, no keyboard.

It's silly to think any one manufacturer will have more than 50% of the smartphone market, even if they did singlehandedly revolutionize it. They are the largest single manufacturer and how many phones did they sell in 2006? uhh zero? yeah zero. Eventually by attacking the cheapest price points Apple should be able to be dethroned to 40% of the market for tablets. But look where the Zune is now.

Turns out, through May, Apple's iPod had 76% of the U.S. MP3 player market, while the Zune had 1%, according to NPD Group analyst Ross Rubin.
post #362 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellonwheelz View Post
Statistically what percentage does Apple have of:

Consumer satisfaction ratings?
The laptop market?
Mp3 Players? 76%
Smartphones?
Design Professional market?
Digital music sales?
Digital app sales?
Downloadable video?

Most importantly what are there margins? I posted a $399 PC, that is OS, 22" monitor, E5700 etc. How many of those does Dell need to sell to profit the same as a one iMac sale? A mac mini is not really faster except for video, and it costs 699, no monitor, no mouse, no keyboard.

It's silly to think any one manufacturer will have more than 50% of the smartphone market, even if they did singlehandedly revolutionize it. They are the largest single manufacturer and how many phones did they sell in 2006? uhh zero? yeah zero. Eventually by attacking the cheapest price points Apple should be able to be dethroned to 40% of the market for tablets. But look where the Zune is now.

Turns out, through May, Apple's iPod had 76% of the U.S. MP3 player market, while the Zune had 1%, according to NPD Group analyst Ross Rubin.
Opps, how did I forget about the ipod?! I also want to say I was more talking about the computer market where OSX only has a 6%(I think it's 6%) worldwide market share and a 10% market share in the USA. I also realize it could be viewed as unfair to compare the entire android OS to the iphone but I do not believe that is so. If that were the case by that logic it is also unfair to compare windows as a whole to mac OSX because apple is only one manufacturer.
Edited by scyy - 3/18/11 at 9:11pm
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post #363 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Taking a puritanical point of view, no one has ever built a computer, since they have all been assembled from parts made by others. When one talks about a build - it refers to assembling a customed machine to fit some need or want, rather than buying an off the shelf prebuilt.
I've built a computer. It had 4 processors, 3 running at 8MHz and one at 80MHz. Me and three others did board layout, schematic, wrote a (simple) kernel and drivers. It had 10Mbps ethernet, and six RS232 ports, and 32 relay outputs (I plan on controlling some christmas lights with that sucker later)!!! Of course I still leveraged other's IC designs, so yeah you never do everything. Just had to brag.

And yeah for the record saying Apple is a ****ty company doesn't hold water. I abstain from their gear, I disagree with their design philosophy, and yes I refuse to be one of the "cool kids". But as an electrical engineer, I can say many of their products are amazing examples of what engineering should look like. Macbook air is a masterpiece, Mac Mini has shockingly low power consumption, iPhone is solid if no masterpiece.

But where they truly excel is in "Industrial Engineering". This means something a little different in many companies, but I'm talking about the usability, functional aesthetics, and user interface. They understood that computers weren't for geeks anymore and pounced on it.

Also, I work for a major semiconductor company and one of my devices is in the iPhones. They, more than anybody, know how to make their suppliers' lives hell.
Edited by arcticTaco - 3/18/11 at 10:19pm
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post #364 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticTaco View Post
I've built a computer. It had 4 processors, 3 running at 8MHz and one at 80MHz. Me and three others did board layout, schematic, wrote a (simple) kernel and drivers. It had 10Mbps ethernet, and six RS232 ports, and 32 relay outputs (I plan on controlling some christmas lights with that sucker later)!!! Of course I still leveraged other's IC designs, so yeah you never do everything. Just had to brag.

And yeah for the record saying Apple is a ****ty company doesn't hold water. I abstain from their gear, I disagree with their design philosophy, and yes I refuse to be one of the "cool kids". But as an electrical engineer, I can say many of their products are amazing examples of what engineering should look like. Macbook air is a masterpiece, Mac Mini has shockingly low power consumption, iPhone is solid if no masterpiece.


But where they truly excel is in "Industrial Engineering". This means something a little different in many companies, but I'm talking about the usability, functional aesthetics, and user interface. They understood that computers weren't for geeks anymore and pounced on it.

Also, I work for a major semiconductor company and one of my devices is in the iPhones. They, more than anybody, know how to make their suppliers' lives hell.
So much this, I may dislike the company and their approach at times but I will admit they make some good products.(albeit overpriced at times.)
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post #365 of 377
See you built a computer and have got some serious history, so you must know that if Apple has a vision, perhaps only really short sighted people bet against it.

Agree on the industrial engineering, but that's totally only a means to a end. Apple has historically navigated almost every personal computing leap singlehandedly well compared to everyone else.

1st mass produced personal computer (to sell in volume)
Created the mouse as we know it.
1st successful windowing system
hard drive music players...
os 9 to a dead end never finished os to a next based unix desktop.
PPC to Intel

Tricky transitons, not really a revolutionary leap, but hey MS can't even launch an os upgrade for a phone os they released 3 months ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticTaco View Post
But as an electrical engineer, I can say many of their products are amazing examples of what engineering should look like. Macbook air is a masterpiece, Mac Mini has shockingly low power consumption, iPhone is solid if no masterpiece.

But where they truly excel is in "Industrial Engineering". This means something a little different in many companies, but I'm talking about the usability, functional aesthetics, and user interface. They understood that computers weren't for geeks anymore and pounced on it.

Also, I work for a major semiconductor company and one of my devices is in the iPhones. They, more than anybody, know how to make their suppliers' lives hell.
post #366 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellonwheelz View Post
See you built a computer and have got some serious history, so you must know that if Apple has a vision, perhaps only really short sighted people bet against it.

Agree on the industrial engineering, but that's totally only a means to a end. Apple has historically navigated almost every personal computing leap singlehandedly well compared to everyone else.

1st mass produced personal computer (to sell in volume)
Created the mouse as we know it.
1st successful windowing system
hard drive music players...
os 9 to a dead end never finished os to a next based unix desktop.
PPC to Intel

Tricky transitons, not really a revolutionary leap, but hey MS can't even launch an os upgrade for a phone os they released 3 months ago.
1st mass produced personal computer (to sell in volume)
Created the mouse as we know it.
1st successful windowing system
hard drive music players
^ Apple has no credit for being "revolutionary" and did not invent at least 2 of those.
Edited by Heavy MG - 3/19/11 at 4:04am
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post #367 of 377
None of these are apple "inventions", they just invested heavily, and actually shipped product, with commercial success. Everyone is absolutely true and widely accepted as such. One would have to be slightly deluded to debate against any of these points.

Apple II is the only computer that could possibly be considered the first successful mass produced personal computer.

The mouse was invented in 1964, however in 1980 it still cost more than $400. Apple's r&d was the only thing that allowed it to exist as a commercial mass produced product (cost $10-$35). Every mouse with a captive ball after that was a copy of the apple mouse.

I should have written first commercially successful windowing system for personal computers. That would be the Macintosh, btw. 6 years later a horrible windows 3.0 would be almost usable.

iPod and iTunes, mp3 players existed before that, but Apple had a vision of an ecosystem. Captured over 95% of the market. My guess would be 98% of the profit .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
1st mass produced personal computer (to sell in volume)
Created the mouse as we know it.
1st successful windowing system
hard drive music players
^ Apple has no credit for being "revolutionary" and did not invent at least 2 of those.
So the first comercially successful PC isn't revolutionary? OK.
post #368 of 377
Here are some interesting facts from the FEB 2011 Steam Hardware Survey

Of the people playing on Mac's
46.78% Play on a Macbook Pro
23.18% Play on a iMac
20.25% Play on a Macbook
5.41% Play on a MacPro
3.44% Play on a MacMini

However
95.22% Play on PC
4.78% Play on Apple
post #369 of 377
The problem I have with Apple is the same problem I have with Intel. Marketing. Apple monopolizes its hardware and thus it sells at an EXTREME premium. No competition = higher prices. They take jabs at PC's because "Apple takes better advantage of its hardware," however, if they let consumers build their own Macs they would see a significant decline said hardware performance and reliability as Windows and Linux have to play nice with many manufacturers. There are billions of configurations you can make with a PC--and thus you cannot guarantee optimal performance--where as there are merely dozens for a Mac. Apple chooses one brand to make their various parts and thus can optimize for that one brand.

Personally, I find it ridiculous to spend $250 on a Radeon HD 5770 just to waste it on a Mac that can't even use it for everything that a PC can. I guess you could play WoW with it... *cough*

On to the hardware review sites, Cnet especially. I read a Windows 7 versus Mac OS Snow Leapard (or whatever it was) from Cnet in which they claim that the two OS's tied, however, all of the important categories, such as that oh-so-minor reliability one, Windows 7 took hands down. How on earth can an OS that is less reliable tie with another OS just because it has cutesy features? I am going to go conspiracy theorist here and make a claim that Apple is buying out these review sites, much like Intel bought out PC manufacturers when it was getting dominated by AMD in the Athlon 64 days--like how that one turned out Intel? After settling for a measily 1.25 billion USD with AMD, which AMD had to settle for as they were in financial trouble due to Intels atrocious tactics, the FTC immediately sued Intel while representing ATI, Nvidia, and VIA (to name a few). Let's not forget about that recent suit Nvidia recently filed against Intel. Yes, Intel really is a company that everyone should strive to be like. No wonder they are in bed with Apple.

Anyone care to spend a minimum of $1200 for iMac only to get stuck with an endless beach ball error? Sounds like a steal to me!

It is also baffling to me that the iPod takes up the market share that it does. They have in inferior sound quality and are anchored to that horrid program iTunes. So why does Cnet keep recommending them? Conspiracies, that's why!

I'm not even going to go into the price of the Mac Pro. Granted Mac OS is optimized for media, while Windows it optimized for data which would probably explain why photography professionals prefer Macs, but I can't imagine that the performance difference really warrants the enormous cost premium.

I'll end on the upcoming Macbook Pro. Here's what you get for 1800 USD:
A "sexy" dent-prone aluminum "unibody" chassis that will burn your crotch off as it gets to 107 degrees Ferenheit on the bottom--that's roughly 42C to those who use the superior metric system--under load and gets 6 hours of battery life--with a battery that cannot be replaced by the end user. But don't forget about that revolutionary keyboard that--it stole from Sony--it incoporates.

By the way, the upcoming Thinkpad T420 and T520 dominate the Macbook Pro in every benchmark (yes, yes benchmarks are synthetic), costs hundreds of USD less, and gets upwards of 19 hours of battery life--with a replacable battery--when paired with the slice battery that sits nicely on the bottom of the "ugly" magnesium alloy and plastic chassis.

/rant
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post #370 of 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger.blue View Post
however, if they let consumers build their own Macs they would see a significant decline said hardware performance and reliability as Windows and Linux have to play nice with many manufacturers. There are billions of configurations you can make with a PC--and thus you cannot guarantee optimal performance--where as there are merely dozens for a Mac. Apple chooses one brand to make their various parts and thus can optimize for that one brand.
While the gist of the post is true, OS X would still be faster than Windows even if Macs varied in hardware as much as Windows does, they have far less legacy applications to cater to than Windows for one thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger.blue View Post
Personally, I find it ridiculous to spend $250 on a Radeon HD 5770 just to waste it on a Mac that can't even use it for everything that a PC can. I guess you could play WoW with it... *cough*
TF2 and Portal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger.blue View Post
It is also baffling to me that the iPod takes up the market share that it does. They have in inferior sound quality and are anchored to that horrid program iTunes. So why does Cnet keep recommending them? Conspiracies, that's why!
Everything else works so well, and an iPods sound quality is enough for most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger.blue View Post
By the way, the upcoming Thinkpad T420 and T520 dominate the Macbook Pro in every benchmark (yes, yes benchmarks are synthetic), costs hundreds of USD less, and gets upwards of 19 hours of battery life--with a replacable battery--when paired with the slice battery that sits nicely on the bottom of the "ugly" magnesium alloy and plastic chassis.

/rant
Agreed there, Thinkpads and some of the Samsung laptops beat the Apple ones hands down.
    
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