Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD - General › This basic tower setup good for under $400?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

This basic tower setup good for under $400? - Page 4

post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
No Biostar 880G board would be 125W ready.
Based on what evidence? Do you know what the mosfets are rated for? Have you done a tear-down? Have you stress tested one? Under what conditions are they not 125W ready?

With proper air flow and heat-sinking, many of the boards that are only good for 95W would handle 200W just fine....

With the stock cooler at stock speeds a 955 would work fine on this board.

Why would they bother selling a mobo as 125W capable if it was just going to come back to haunt them with thousands of RMAs? It would be a very bad business decision to lie about that particular capability. Obviously they are probably falling back on the fact that they do not support the board once the overclocking begins.

Yea, here on OCN we see a lot of VRM failures, they are related to overclocking and effed up cooling for the VRMs from after-market CPU cooling solutions.

There are plenty of people out there running X6s on these boards. They will handle it just fine at stock speeds. The manufacture lists the X6 as compatible, and even has the bios ready to roll for it. They would not do this if it couldn't run that CPU in a stock configuration with acceptable reliability.
Edited by mdocod - 3/6/11 at 2:20am
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
Reply
post #32 of 54
See: Both links in my sig for why
Some motherboard manufacturers are absolutely stupid. No 3+1 VRM is ready for a 125W processor no matter what, it is just too much power. Only a few motherboard manufacturers are smart enough to keep 125W away from 3+1 phase such as Gigabyte (in their case, no new 3+1 board is rated for 125W). Many 3+1s either fail at stock or fail faster overclocked with high TDP processors. A lot of failures that happen are probably never posted online. I myself find it hard to recommend anything short of a quality 4+1 VRM for running a 125W processor. Only recently we saw a 10-day streak in VRM failures - with at least one happening over those 10 days, every single day - and multiple failures on those days. Many with pics. In the past February & early March alone, the size of the horror stories list in my "Why 4+1 = bad" article had more than doubled. I think you probably already know that.
Edited by xd_1771 - 3/6/11 at 3:02am
post #33 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
are you going to be playing any games? cause those GPUs cant really handle anything, proboly some CSS only
Yeah, basic gaming pretty much until he can gather funds. So onboard will be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
See: Both links in my sig for why
Some motherboard manufacturers are absolutely stupid. No 3+1 VRM is ready for a 125W processor no matter what, it is just too much power. Only a few motherboard manufacturers are smart enough to keep 125W away from 3+1 phase such as Gigabyte (in their case, no new 3+1 board is rated for 125W). Many 3+1s either fail at stock or fail faster overclocked with high TDP processors. A lot of failures that happen are probably never posted online. I myself find it hard to recommend anything short of a quality 4+1 VRM for running a 125W processor. Only recently we saw a 10-day streak in VRM failures - with at least one happening over those 10 days, every single day - and multiple failures on those days. Many with pics. In the past February & early March alone, the size of the horror stories list in my "Why 4+1 = bad" article had more than doubled. I think you probably already know that.
Really good read.
Dev0
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II x6 1090T @ 3.8 GHz ASUS M4A78-E 790GX PowerColor HD Radeon 7850 2 GB 2x4 GB DDR2 800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial M500 240 GB SSD Samsung Super WriteMaster DVD Burner 20x Windows 10 Pro x64 ASUS VH226H 21.5" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech PC Power & Cooling 500W Antec Three Hundred Modded Microsoft 3-Button Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Cheap Soft Mousepad 
  hide details  
Reply
Dev0
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II x6 1090T @ 3.8 GHz ASUS M4A78-E 790GX PowerColor HD Radeon 7850 2 GB 2x4 GB DDR2 800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Crucial M500 240 GB SSD Samsung Super WriteMaster DVD Burner 20x Windows 10 Pro x64 ASUS VH226H 21.5" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech PC Power & Cooling 500W Antec Three Hundred Modded Microsoft 3-Button Mouse 
Mouse Pad
Cheap Soft Mousepad 
  hide details  
Reply
post #34 of 54
i made a rig i'm just trying to get it up on newegg so i can show you
Ryzen 4.0Ghz
(18 items)
 
My HTPC Comp
(12 items)
 
Wife's Computer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 @4.0ghz MSI B350 Tomahawk Powercolor Radeon 7950 (waiting on Vega) Team Nighthawk 2x8gb DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston M2sata 500gb Custom Liquid Loop from leftovers Windows 10 64bit 27" Crossover 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
BlackWidow Ultimate  Corsair RM650x Phatneks Enthoo Evolv ATX Mionix Naos QG 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Rosewill Extended Mat Onboard ; ; Corsair SP2500 Sennheiser HD598c 
Audio
Audio-Technica 2020 Micorphone 
  hide details  
Reply
Ryzen 4.0Ghz
(18 items)
 
My HTPC Comp
(12 items)
 
Wife's Computer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 @4.0ghz MSI B350 Tomahawk Powercolor Radeon 7950 (waiting on Vega) Team Nighthawk 2x8gb DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston M2sata 500gb Custom Liquid Loop from leftovers Windows 10 64bit 27" Crossover 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
BlackWidow Ultimate  Corsair RM650x Phatneks Enthoo Evolv ATX Mionix Naos QG 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Rosewill Extended Mat Onboard ; ; Corsair SP2500 Sennheiser HD598c 
Audio
Audio-Technica 2020 Micorphone 
  hide details  
Reply
post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbudden View Post
4+1 power phase on that mobo.
Tons of them have been biting the dust as of late.
MSI boards are the culprits. not asus.
MILSPEC II
(8 items)
 
| LUMO |
(6 items)
 
CLoS3 IMPACT
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
5820k X99m WS 980ti strix 980ti strix 
RAMHard DrivePowerCase
KLEVV Cras DDR4  3tb Red Corsair 600w SFX + 450w SFX Caselabs BH4 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4970k Z97 Gryphon GTX 680 x2 Crucial Ballistix Elite 16Gb 
PowerCase
Be Quiet Dark Power 850 InWin D Frame Mini 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4770k ASUS Impact ITX R9 290 Gskill Trident 2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCase
Samsung EV0 250 x2 WD black Loop.....oh yes...... Caselabs S3....modded 
  hide details  
Reply
MILSPEC II
(8 items)
 
| LUMO |
(6 items)
 
CLoS3 IMPACT
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
5820k X99m WS 980ti strix 980ti strix 
RAMHard DrivePowerCase
KLEVV Cras DDR4  3tb Red Corsair 600w SFX + 450w SFX Caselabs BH4 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4970k Z97 Gryphon GTX 680 x2 Crucial Ballistix Elite 16Gb 
PowerCase
Be Quiet Dark Power 850 InWin D Frame Mini 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 4770k ASUS Impact ITX R9 290 Gskill Trident 2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCase
Samsung EV0 250 x2 WD black Loop.....oh yes...... Caselabs S3....modded 
  hide details  
Reply
post #36 of 54
heres what i was able to make you can always scrap the vid card and add some more ram



total to 371$ i don't live in U.S so i can't tell you shipping price

I've not had a problems with logisys PSU i've built 4 systems so far with them and no complaints and it's been about 2 years
Ryzen 4.0Ghz
(18 items)
 
My HTPC Comp
(12 items)
 
Wife's Computer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 @4.0ghz MSI B350 Tomahawk Powercolor Radeon 7950 (waiting on Vega) Team Nighthawk 2x8gb DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston M2sata 500gb Custom Liquid Loop from leftovers Windows 10 64bit 27" Crossover 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
BlackWidow Ultimate  Corsair RM650x Phatneks Enthoo Evolv ATX Mionix Naos QG 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Rosewill Extended Mat Onboard ; ; Corsair SP2500 Sennheiser HD598c 
Audio
Audio-Technica 2020 Micorphone 
  hide details  
Reply
Ryzen 4.0Ghz
(18 items)
 
My HTPC Comp
(12 items)
 
Wife's Computer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 @4.0ghz MSI B350 Tomahawk Powercolor Radeon 7950 (waiting on Vega) Team Nighthawk 2x8gb DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston M2sata 500gb Custom Liquid Loop from leftovers Windows 10 64bit 27" Crossover 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
BlackWidow Ultimate  Corsair RM650x Phatneks Enthoo Evolv ATX Mionix Naos QG 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Rosewill Extended Mat Onboard ; ; Corsair SP2500 Sennheiser HD598c 
Audio
Audio-Technica 2020 Micorphone 
  hide details  
Reply
post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakenxile View Post
heres what i was able to make you can always scrap the vid card and add some more ram



total to 371$ i don't live in U.S so i can't tell you shipping price

I've not had a problems with logisys PSU i've built 4 systems so far with them and no complaints and it's been about 2 years
I'm not a huge fan of this... you will definitely want 2 DIMMs of RAM or some sort of dual channel kit, not only dual channel is a large benefit but having 2GB would be unwise nowadays for both performance and pice. Also for $5 more you can get Samsung F3 1TB on Superbiiz.
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
I'm not a huge fan of this... you will definitely want 2 DIMMs of RAM or some sort of dual channel kit, not only dual channel is a large benefit but having 2GB would be unwise nowadays for both performance and pice. Also for $5 more you can get Samsung F3 1TB on Superbiiz.
it can be optimized i did put 4 gigs but it got close to the 400 take the gpu out and theres no problem i was just trying to save as much money as i could is all
Ryzen 4.0Ghz
(18 items)
 
My HTPC Comp
(12 items)
 
Wife's Computer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 @4.0ghz MSI B350 Tomahawk Powercolor Radeon 7950 (waiting on Vega) Team Nighthawk 2x8gb DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston M2sata 500gb Custom Liquid Loop from leftovers Windows 10 64bit 27" Crossover 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
BlackWidow Ultimate  Corsair RM650x Phatneks Enthoo Evolv ATX Mionix Naos QG 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Rosewill Extended Mat Onboard ; ; Corsair SP2500 Sennheiser HD598c 
Audio
Audio-Technica 2020 Micorphone 
  hide details  
Reply
Ryzen 4.0Ghz
(18 items)
 
My HTPC Comp
(12 items)
 
Wife's Computer
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 @4.0ghz MSI B350 Tomahawk Powercolor Radeon 7950 (waiting on Vega) Team Nighthawk 2x8gb DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Kingston M2sata 500gb Custom Liquid Loop from leftovers Windows 10 64bit 27" Crossover 2560x1440 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
BlackWidow Ultimate  Corsair RM650x Phatneks Enthoo Evolv ATX Mionix Naos QG 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Rosewill Extended Mat Onboard ; ; Corsair SP2500 Sennheiser HD598c 
Audio
Audio-Technica 2020 Micorphone 
  hide details  
Reply
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post
Based on what evidence? Do you know what the mosfets are rated for? Have you done a tear-down? Have you stress tested one? Under what conditions are they not 125W ready?

With proper air flow and heat-sinking, many of the boards that are only good for 95W would handle 200W just fine....

With the stock cooler at stock speeds a 955 would work fine on this board.

Why would they bother selling a mobo as 125W capable if it was just going to come back to haunt them with thousands of RMAs? It would be a very bad business decision to lie about that particular capability. Obviously they are probably falling back on the fact that they do not support the board once the overclocking begins.

Yea, here on OCN we see a lot of VRM failures, they are related to overclocking and effed up cooling for the VRMs from after-market CPU cooling solutions.

There are plenty of people out there running X6s on these boards. They will handle it just fine at stock speeds. The manufacture lists the X6 as compatible, and even has the bios ready to roll for it. They would not do this if it couldn't run that CPU in a stock configuration with acceptable reliability.
I kinda agree with you on this one because if mfr aren't smart enough then they would have big trouble dealing with the fried boards within warranty period (3 years for biostar). If they intend to make good money then they should've done proper research and testing.

Sure The vrm issue has been recently more noticed by the community but that doesn't mean the mobo specs lie about cpu wattage...using the stock cooler is the easiest way to cool vrms and surrounding components if you don't care about oc'
    
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5-2410M @ 2.9ghz Nvidia GT 540M 1GB DDR3 4GB DDR3 1333mhz 500GB 5400rpm 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Win 7 Home 64 1366x768 gloss 90w power brick Acer 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i5-2410M @ 2.9ghz Nvidia GT 540M 1GB DDR3 4GB DDR3 1333mhz 500GB 5400rpm 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Win 7 Home 64 1366x768 gloss 90w power brick Acer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
Only a few motherboard manufacturers are smart enough to keep 125W away from 3+1 phase such as Gigabyte (in their case, no new 3+1 board is rated for 125W).
The premise of this position demands that the combined power output capability of 3+1 is lower than that of 4+1 (or higher phase count) designs in ALL possible comparisons. I do not believe that an assumption based on manufacture "A" does something that manufacture "B" doesn't holds water. They could be using completely different MOSFETs, inductors, and caps, which invalidates any comparisons made on "hunches" or "feelings." If you have a case to make for the Biostar 3+1 phase design being prone to failure I would very much appreciate that the evidence be shared.

Quote:
Many 3+1s either fail at stock or fail faster overclocked with high TDP processors.
4+1s fail at stock speeds too, you have evidence of that in your list of failures. I went through every link in your list of VRM failures to see if we could uncover the real cause of the failures. The lack of proper cooling combined with significant over-clock is consistent in the vast majority of cases. There are only 2 biostar VRM failures in your entire list, neither of which are a 3+1 phase design.

We can all agree that cheaper mobos probably aren't the best bet for over-clocking because they are likely to have a VRM setup that has a lower maximum continuous power capability (regardless of phase count). This thread is about a $400 "basic" computer. I have no reason to believe that the mobo selected for this build needs to be ready for serious overclocking. I also have reason to believe that the system will probably use the stock AMD CPU cooler, which provides BETTER cooling for the VRMs than the vast majority of popular after-market CPU heat-sinks.

Quote:
A lot of failures that happen are probably never posted online.
This statement does not support the argument that the biostar 3+1 can't operate a 955 reliably. Unreported VRM failures are a reality, but the fact that they exist does not carry traction for the argument at hand.

Quote:
I myself find it hard to recommend anything short of a quality 4+1 VRM for running a 125W processor.
That's a perfectly legitimate recommendation to make, the key word here being "quality." Again, the number of phases has nothing to do with the capacity to deliver power.

Does the number of cylinders in an engine define the capability? performance? economy?

In looking at the list of failures that you have collected, the 4+1s seem to be the MOST failure prone. However, that condition (being a 4+1 phase configuration) has very little to do with the reason for the failures. The reason for the failures is obviously underpowered and/or under heat-sunk designs.

Eric
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: AMD - General
Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD - General › This basic tower setup good for under $400?