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EeePC bench - 7 vs. Ubuntu - Page 3

post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavallino View Post
With my netbook (1.66ghz atom 3gb ram and patriot ssd) running Arch I get 23 seconds from the click of the button to SLIM login. My sig rig with W7 is about 35 seconds to login but a lot of that is because of the slow Marvell controller bios. Windows it self boots to login in about 10 seconds.

If you spend hours tweaking windows it can be fast (reduced services/startup, no gui boot option). Ubuntu 10.10 was slow to boot for me, and the worst was opensuse.
I get about 40 seconds from grub to login on my netbook (also 1.66GHz Atom). It gets stuck at loading wicd which takes a good 5 seconds. It's a mechanical drive so maybe I can still hit the 20 sec range too with an SSD.

Running Gentoo distro with 2 modules and no initrd.
post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
Yes, of course, I understand LinuX is way lighter, and tweaking is not really what regular users do, so thats why its best to have them untweaked
However, my point is- no healthy Windows takes 2.5min to boot (except Vista, which is well known )

Even though its made by Microsoft, who do this and that with your desktop at boot time, it still is not normal to load for 2min 30sec from OS select to operational...




^^ and that is with lots of intensive startup programs- LiveMesh, AVs, messengers, CCC and so on
i should shed some insight as i do know why it is such a slow boot for windows 7. i will explain the problem, what i've done in the past to "fix" it, and what others have suggested as to why it happens.

this problem is not only apparent to the boot process.

I have 2 750 GB WD Green Harddrives, they claim to be variable speed 5400rpm to 7200rpm (which is a lie as they always run at 5400 rpm, never to 7200 rpm.) this honestly isn't a big deal as i do not use them for anything but storage, they were very cheap, and i couldn't pass them up.

this is the problem, windows 7 takes an extremely long time to access these drives, i'm not talking a few seconds, i'm talking minutes. if i'm in explorer or any program, i go to open or save to this drive, i literally have enough time to go grab a beer, heat up some left over pizza, and be half way done with the beer before the drive opens.(on average its about 2 minutes)

if i disconnect this drive, the boot process is what people consider more reasonable for a windows 7 installation on my hardware.

if i'm watching a movie or listening to music that is on this drive, the movie or music after a few minutes will stop playing, and then "buffer" for 20 to 30 seconds, and then continue.

now here are the suggestions as to what has caused this and me fixing and the outcome:

Bad drivers: reinstalled chipset drivers, update the firmware on the drives, same problem.

Harddrive failure: rma'd twice, both times they found no problems, first rma they were kind and sent actual new replacements (not refurbished ones.) second rma was of these replacement drives, they however did not send replacements, they sent the originals back, suggesting driver related problems, or motherboard sata port failure.

Sata Port Failure (this was on the first rig, which was a p45-ud3p): didn't believe this was the cause, but i did need an excuse to go with a new lynnfield , so i purchased my current sig rig. reinstalled win7, same problem as before.

Power Saving Options: some one once suggested it was the power saving options in windows 7, that was putting the drive to "sleep". i've gone thru the settings a 100 times, i even created a profile, turned everything to never, or no, still problem remains.

unstable OC: restored to stock, then it was suggested that auto settings might not provide enough voltages, so i used my OC voltages and bumped them up to "safe" max, to no avail.

Bad Memory: i'll bite, ran 2 days of memtest while i helped my sister move, came back, it had passed thousands of test.

Failing PSU: at the time i did have a 450watt, that had some age on it, figured it could be the problem, so purchased a 650 watt (i'll say hogwash if any suggest this is not enough for my specs ) but it still wasn't the problem.

this is what i've done: went with all new sata cables for all HDD's, broken up the space into 100 GB chunks, switched around sata connection order, switched around order in bios, switched to AHCI mode, ran them in RAID, ran them as dynamic volumes, installed 7 directly to one (that was a freaking nightmare).

i've had many other suggestions, that progressively get dumber and dumber, that i didn't even bother with, cause other test proved it wasn't the suggestions, or my other evidence to why its not that.

Now i've pulled these drives and stuck them into another windows 7 build (a dell), and this problem exist.

now i would honestly think, the drives were just bad, after 2 years almost of having this problem (thru the public beta, and its RTM). i do know mechanical drives degrade and have issues the older they are, but these problems have existed since these drives have been brand spanking new out of a box. but since i do run linux, and have had windows vista and xp installed along with using these drives, and this problem does not exist there, my only conclusion is it is something in windows 7. (windows 2008r2 does have this problem with these two drives as well.)

Others have thought that since they are 5400 rpm, that is the problem, but i have several other 5400 rpm drives (ide and sata's, 2.5 and 3.5) that don't suffer this problem. i have also purchased these drives that i use in another computer (that runs vista), and putting these drives on a windows 7 machine suffer the same result.

now if i had never tried these drives in other OS, i would have sold them long ago on craigslist with a "alt" email address and met the person at mcd's so they wouldn't know where i lived, and been done with them.

logic dictates, if you have two common variables to a problem, and you remove one, and the problem ceases to exist, then you found your problem. out of the two common factors, removing 7 from it, the problem goes away,

so honestly, i can only conclude, there is something wrong with windows 7 (and i've seen lots of post to this effect not just on OCN, but at all sorts of different forums, and like most, they conclude the drives are just bad, and replace them, and this happens with just not the Green WD 5400 rpms, i've seen it happen with all sorts of different spec'd hard drives, and yes, i'm sure at times, it is bad harddrives, but it does make me think "is it all bad harddrives?")
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post #23 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
*lots of text*
Impressive.. I agree, it is definitely the Windows that is causing the problems.
Win7 has a new kernel, compared to Vista, which had the XP kernel, which had the 2000 kernel.

I guess there is some major incompatibility... However, I'm glad the HDDs work fine with previous OSs, it would be tragic otherwise

Cheers!
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post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
Impressive.. I agree, it is definitely the Windows that is causing the problems.
Win7 has a new kernel, compared to Vista, which had the XP kernel, which had the 2000 kernel.

I guess there is some major incompatibility... However, I'm glad the HDDs work fine with previous OSs, it would be tragic otherwise

Cheers!
**** NOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOO

Windows 7 uses the NT 6.1 kernel, which was forked from the NT 6.0 kernel. Vista uses the NT 6.0 kernel, see the problem? Windows 7 IS the Vista kernel, just re-vamped in certain spots.

Windows XP was the NT 5.2 kernel, which was based off the 2k 5.0 kernel. The major thing was that XP was a sort of hybrid when it came to kernel/hardware, as it could still use the original win9x framework.

OOOOO I hate mis-conceptions on how the windows kernel works. Just like people don't understand that there is still NT 3.0 code that is being run. They never re-write a kernel, they just add more on. Notice they are all NT X.X? It's because they are ALL still based off previous kernel code, which inherits the version before that too.

[edit] It's ironic too, cause me and trasnhour were JUST talking about how people don't get this. Most people think each windows release is a new kernel, for whatever crazy reason. They also don't understand the win9x/NT difference, oh the list goes on and on about the discrepancies that people have on Windows.
Edited by mushroomboy - 3/8/11 at 1:53pm
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post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post
Impressive.. I agree, it is definitely the Windows that is causing the problems.
Win7 has a new kernel, compared to Vista, which had the XP kernel, which had the 2000 kernel.

I guess there is some major incompatibility... However, I'm glad the HDDs work fine with previous OSs, it would be tragic otherwise

Cheers!
without getting way to technical, the kernel is more or less the same one in vista...

Quote:
The long-term architectural investments we introduced in Windows Vista and then refined for Windows Vista SP1 and Windows Server 2008 will carry forward in Windows 7. Windows Vista established a very solid foundation, particularly on subsystems such as graphics, audio, and storage. Windows Server 2008 was built on that foundation and Windows 7 will be as well. Contrary to some speculation, Microsoft is not creating a new kernel for Windows 7. Rather, we are refining the kernel architecture and componentization model introduced in Windows Vista.
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post #26 of 28
lol That was a lot less dramatic than my answer, boo! =P
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post #27 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
lol That was a lot less dramatic than my answer, boo! =P
Yes, you overreacted a bit

Anyway, my bad. Vista and 7's kernels are the same (somewhat). Only after I heard it from M$ I believed
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post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
lol That was a lot less dramatic than my answer, boo! =P
well...i could have been way technical, comparing config files with thread counts between vista's and 7's kernel, to prove they were the same beast with a hair cut, but then that would have lead to way to many unanswered questions and breaking thru way to many more "misconceptions" about windows, which would lead to a lot of denials, crying, and eventually thread lock and infractions. so i thought it be best to find an article that was of an interview of someone who worked for MS, to say it...
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