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[Geek] Nintendo reserves the right to brick your 3DS if piracy detected - Page 18

post #171 of 188
Maybe piracy isn't theft in the technical legal sense of the word, but I would argue copyright infringement is theft of information in the common use sense of the word. It depends if you think information has the same value as physical property though.
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post #172 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post
Source

Looks like the console makers are going to follow Sony on this one...

We will own you if you jack with our systems....
OMG...incredible...now sony start with this ??

oh yeah yeah...I remember now....M$ horrible mistakes do not exist here
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post #173 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffleboy View Post
Nor is there evidence to the contrary, and for a business that needs to maximize profit (which is, after all, what all businesses want to do), it is in their best interest to try to get everyone to buy the game. I'm not trying to make a blanket characterization of everyone who pirates games, but from my experience both spending time on lots of different forums and in real life with people who I know pirate games and I know could easily afford to the pay for the games, and WOULD pay for them if piracy wasn't an option, my general impression has been that people just find excuses to justify their (in my opinion) theft.

I think that businesses have a right to try to protect their own products and further their sales (at least to an extent). I don't think it should be against the law for people to put custom software on devices they buy (so I was happy when Apple lost their big court case), but I also don't think Nintendo is completely out of line here.
Right. You NEED a jailbroken iPhone to install pirated apps. So, by your agreement with Nintendo bricking consoles for using homebrew (though they say pirate activity, you know they mean homebrew, like Sony) you think it's ok for Apple to remotely brick jailbroken iPhones?

BUT WAIT?! You just said you were happy Apple lost that one. So, which is it?

Oh and the piracy = lost sale argument never, ever works. There is no proof that a pirated copy is a lost sale and there never will be because the phenomenon doesn't exist.

I personally buy all my games but I will admit to testing out various new DRM's either by 'letting' my mates buy it/download it first. I have a job, my friends do not. But I'm not so anti-piracy that I would refuse the chance to see a game being played or hear about the DRM. I much prefer the hassle free-ness of actually buying a game and if you bide your time or look hard enough you can find it cheap enough. Like BC2 for £6 on Steam last XMAS (gutted because I paid £19.99 a month earlier).

But even though I buy ALL my games I don't think pirates are the scourge of the earth. I see more wrong with the DRM's they implement than the people who crack.
Edited by Viridian - 3/9/11 at 3:14pm
    
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post #174 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffleboy View Post
Maybe piracy isn't theft in the technical legal sense of the word, but I would argue copyright infringement is theft of information in the common use sense of the word. It depends if you think information has the same value as physical property though.
Not even in the technical sense. Anyone referring to piracy as theft is plain wrong. It's copyright infringement, because you're denying the copyright holder the exclusive right to be the one who reproduces those works, physically or digitally.
    
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post #175 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffleboy View Post
Nor is there evidence to the contrary, and for a business that needs to maximize profit (which is, after all, what all businesses want to do), it is in their best interest to try to get everyone to buy the game.
There is considerable evidence to the contrary.

Many games that aren't widely pirated do poorly, and some of the most pirated games in history are also some of the best selling ones.

Also, there have been numerous experiments with DRM (GOG.com is a good example, they are making a killing, and there are no copy protections, disc checks or DRM of any kind on anything they sell) that show that games that don't have any don't sell any worse than those that do.

Steam has also experimented with sales, and shown that when prices are cut, sales rise far more than enough to compensate for the reduced cost.

The only reasonable conclusion is that overly high prices and/or overly low quality are responsible for games not doing well, not the potential for piracy (in any substantial way).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffleboy View Post
I'm not trying to make a blanket characterization of everyone who pirates games, but from my experience both spending time on lots of different forums and in real life with people who I know pirate games and I know could easily afford to the pay for the games, and WOULD pay for them if piracy wasn't an option, my general impression has been that people just find excuses to justify their (in my opinion) theft.
And my experiences are the opposite.

Most people I know are more than willing to go without, when the alternative is paying the typical new game cost.

The entertainment value of good games does not depreciate over time. Yet prices always go down, so there is no incentive for patient people to pay full price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffleboy View Post
I think that businesses have a right to try to protect their own products and further their sales (at least to an extent). I don't think it should be against the law for people to put custom software on devices they buy (so I was happy when Apple lost their big court case), but I also don't think Nintendo is completely out of line here.
Oh I think they have a right to attempt whatever they like.

It's still obvious that they are not only fighting the wrong enemy, but they are using tactics doomed to failure.
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post #176 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Right. You NEED a jailbroken iPhone to install pirated apps. So, by your agreement with Nintendo bricking consoles for using homebrew (though they say pirate activity, you know they mean homebrew, like Sony) you think it's ok for Apple to remotely brick jailbroken iPhones?

BUT WAIT?! You just said you were happy Apple lost that one. So, which is it?
I'm happy Apple lost in the legal battle - I don't think it is against the law or should be. But I still think that they should be able to protect their own equipment from tampering so that people can pirate games. Yes, I know they're talking about running homebrew software, not pirating, but most people who install custom firmware on systems do it so they can pirate software. No, I don't have a statistic to back this up, but if you (and from your posts I would assume you do) spend much time on game forums, it's pretty obvious that lots, if not most, people jailbreak/root/put on custom firmware so they can pirate games. Not everyone of course, but I would say the majority.

Quote:
Oh and the piracy = lost sale argument never, ever works. There is no proof that a pirated copy is a lost sale and there never will be because the phenomenon doesn't exist.
It "doesn't exist"...so you think that nobody who pirates games would have bought the game otherwise, and that companies wouldn't have made more money if piracy didn't exist?

Quote:
I personally buy all my games but I will admit to testing out various new DRM's either by 'letting' my mates buy it/download it first. I have a job, my friends do not. But I'm not so anti-piracy that I would refuse the chance to see a game being played or hear about the DRM. I much prefer the hassle free-ness of actually buying a game and if you bide your time or look hard enough you can find it cheap enough. Like BC2 for £6 on Steam last XMAS (gutted because I paid £19.99 a month earlier).

But even though I buy ALL my games I don't think pirates are the scourge of the earth. I see more wrong with the DRM's they implement than the people who crack.
I'm not trying to demonize everyone who pirates games, I'm just putting out my opinion that I believe companies have some right to try to protect their products. Again, to reiterate so it doesn't seem that I'm contradicting myself, I don't think installing custom firmware is illegal. I also don't think putting protections on systems to stop people from putting custom firmware on a system is an unqualified bad. I'm not trying to say it's ideal, but I do understand and sympathize with Nintendo.

Quote:
Not even in the technical sense. Anyone referring to piracy as theft is plain wrong. It's copyright infringement, because you're denying the copyright holder the exclusive right to be the one who reproduces those works, physically or digitally.
Look at my post - I said I DON'T think it's theft in the technical sense I said that, if you consider information to have some of the same qualities as physical property, it is theft in the common use of the word 'theft'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
There is considerable evidence to the contrary.

Many games that aren't widely pirated do poorly, and some of the most pirated games in history are also some of the best selling ones.
I don't really follow your argument there. I'm not saying piracy will completely change the sales of a game, but take Call of Duty for example. It's one of the most pirated and best selling franchises in recent (or maybe all of) gaming history, but surely it would have made more money if many of the pirates had bought it instead of torrenting it.


I don't like DRM any more than anyone else, but I also can understand why companies feel the need to implement it (to an extent at least...looking at you Ubisoft). I just want to defend Nintendo to an extent, because I think people are being overly critical of their decision. Again, I don't think it's perfect by any means, but I do understand it.
Edited by Waffleboy - 3/9/11 at 3:30pm
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post #177 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Lol, no. It's copyright infringement and, yes, it is a criminal act.

Still isn't stealing and you could post any number of RIAA links you wanted, it still won't be stealing. Calling it stealing instead of the proper name of copyright infringement was entirely an RIAA propaganda ploy and it's worked very well, but don't be fooled. There's a massive difference and the law recognises this and hence if anyone is caught downloading stuff they'll be charged with CI and not theft.
Calling it copyright infrigement is just a pretty term to hide the fact that you're stealing, I don't need the RIAA or some lawyers or judges to tell me what is theft and what isn't.
Edited by Telimektar - 3/9/11 at 3:28pm
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post #178 of 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffleboy View Post
I'm happy Apple lost in the legal battle - I don't think it is against the law or should be. But I still think that they should be able to protect their own equipment from tampering so that people can pirate games. Yes, I know they're talking about running homebrew software, not pirating, but most people who install custom firmware on systems do it so they can pirate software. No, I don't have a statistic to back this up, but if you (and from your posts I would assume you do) spend much time on game forums, it's pretty obvious that lots, if not most, people jailbreak/root/put on custom firmware so they can pirate games. Not everyone of course, but I would say the majority.



It "doesn't exist"...so you think that nobody who pirates games would have bought the game otherwise, and that companies wouldn't have made more money if piracy didn't exist?



I'm not trying to demonize everyone who pirates games, I'm just putting out my opinion that I believe companies have some right to try to protect their products. Again, to reiterate so it doesn't seem that I'm contradicting myself, I don't think installing custom firmware is illegal. I also don't think putting protections on systems to stop people from putting custom firmware on a system is an unqualified bad. I'm not trying to say it's ideal, but I do understand and sympathize with Nintendo.



Look at my post - I said I DON'T think it's theft in the technical sense I said that, if you consider information to have some of the same qualities as physical property, it is theft in the common use of the word 'theft'.
Fair enough mate Sounds like we're in the same boat anyways!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post
Calling it copyright infrigement is just a pretty term to hide the fact that you're stealing, I don't need the RIAA or some lawyes or judges to tell me what is theft and what isn't.
Apparently you do Copyright Infringement is the legal term, technical term and actual term to describe the act. It's exactly nothing like theft.

The outcome is very, very similar (someone gets something for nothing) but there are many things like that in this world that have the same outcome but do not share the same name!
    
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post #179 of 188
Redundant? Won't it just be cracked anyway?
    
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post #180 of 188
Quote:
Apparently you do Copyright Infringement is the legal term, technical term and actual term to describe the act. It's exactly nothing like theft.

The outcome is very, very similar (someone gets something for nothing) but there are many things like that in this world that have the same outcome but do not share the same name!
Exactly why I said what I didn't need anybody to tell me what it is, not even the law, to me it's stealing and I don't care what anybody says about it or try to justify it, to me pirates have been, are and will be scum thiefs.
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