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Bulldozer and Llano release June confirmed. - Page 3

post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZixacunX View Post
So what are the bulldozer cpus coming out late winter?
"late winter" aka E3 Expo: June 7-9, 2011


i think BD in supercomps (HPC) will blow away competition.
Because HPC people run always finetuned code. (BD has some specific instruction sets, not only AVX)
i hope fah and boinc will use them too.

Edited by pietro sk - 4/13/11 at 6:01am
    
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post #22 of 30
Octo-core you say?

o.O
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
More 8 core variants than 6 core and 4 core variants
Yes ,it is logical as well.
They still have on the market the Ph 2 x4 and x6. Surelly they want to sell those too ,at the highest price they can.
   
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post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
And it would most obviously perform better, being 8 true cores over a quad having 4 fake ones. But I doubt it, I'm pretty sure the 8-core CPUs will launch like Nehalem i7, with an 8-core in the $200-300 range (i.e. i7 920) but majority being priced higher ($400-700) and getting those features such as unlocked multi. Most likely I think there won't be a $1000 CPU like Intel extreme though, no one in their right mind would pay that much for a CPU anymore with other parts being so cheap.
SB does not have 4 fake cores, it has four real cores that handle 8 real threads when HT is enabled. And unless AMD finds a way to beef up their single threaded performance significantly, those 8 cores are a big waste unless you are building a rig specifically for highly threaded apps. Its pretty crazy to say its obvious that it will perform better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pietro sk View Post
i agree with xd_1771 about fake threads.
it may look like great technology, but if you search deeper you will be disapointed.

example - core w/o HT has 100% performance, everytime.
but with HT on, you may see some apps performance gains or sometimes losses..
But you can be sure, thanks to HT your consumption will rise

core HT off = 100% efficiency per thread 100%
core HT on = total 95 - 100 - 130% efficiency per thread 47-50-65%

If HT was great technology, AMD would use it.
This logic is just ridiculously wrong. Its pretty much as clear as day that HT makes a huge difference when running heavily threaded apps. You are right that sometimes HT actually hurts performance, but in most cases its very small. We're talking significant gains on heavily threaded apps, with small losses on less-compatible programs. Compare that to say, an AMD 6 core. You get great performance on heavily threaded things (much like HT), but you destroy your single-thread performance. You can't even turn off 6 cores like you can with HT.

That last sentence gets me the most. If AMD could just take whatever it wanted from Intel without hesitation, why hasn't it? Clearly they could use some help. This is like saying, "why didn't the old iphones have mutlitasking? clearly, if multitasking was great technology, Apple would use it."
    
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post #25 of 30
The Intel Sandybridge users should sell their mobo+CPU combo as fast as they can.
The real value of those things will go down fast after this AMD megahit.
This CPU-s will punish Intel for good.
   
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post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post
That last sentence gets me the most. If AMD could just take whatever it wanted from Intel without hesitation, why hasn't it? Clearly they could use some help. This is like saying, "why didn't the old iphones have mutlitasking? clearly, if multitasking was great technology, Apple would use it."
I wouldn't quite agree with the analogy. Intel probably has a patent on HT while as far as I'm aware, nobody has a patent on multi-tasking.

Multi-tasking is great technology. However, given the limited processing power, memory and battery life on mobile devices, Apple had to find a way to make multi-tasking happen within these constraints and without sacrificing battery life. Newer iPhones have faster processors and more RAM so I reckon some of the constraints have been lifted or alleviated somewhat. The earliest iPhone was freakin' slow and I've had frequent app crashes due to not enough memory.
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post #27 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post
This logic is just ridiculously wrong. Its pretty much as clear as day that HT makes a huge difference when running heavily threaded apps. You are right that sometimes HT actually hurts performance, but in most cases its very small. We're talking significant gains on heavily threaded apps, with small losses on less-compatible programs. Compare that to say, an AMD 6 core. You get great performance on heavily threaded things (much like HT), but you destroy your single-thread performance. You can't even turn off 6 cores like you can with HT.

That last sentence gets me the most. If AMD could just take whatever it wanted from Intel without hesitation, why hasn't it? Clearly they could use some help. This is like saying, "why didn't the old iphones have mutlitasking? clearly, if multitasking was great technology, Apple would use it."
Hmm, so you think virtual threads are powerfull like real threads aka real cores ? i dont think so.
if it was true, virtual threads would gain 100% performance, not just 20% or less.

significant gains ? where? in benchmarking tools ? real life loads are different, for sure.

Hyperthreading is like making one lane highway used as two lanes. If load is low, it´s okay.
But if load is high, there will be bottleneck. And here we are - first thread (lane) 100%, second ~20% or less performance.

Thats why Xeons are good at singlethreaded and lower loads, and Opterons are better at high load and heavy threaded load.
Well, Opteron 6000 series were awarded as best multithreaded processor.

--------------------
If you dont believe me, then ask John about future of HyperThreading in AMD processors.
No wonder, Bulldozer uses Cluster based Multi Threading (which is different from HT)
Edited by pietro sk - 4/13/11 at 7:20am
    
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post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromihetes View Post
The Intel Sandybridge users should sell their mobo+CPU combo as fast as they can.
The real value of those things will go down fast after this AMD megahit.
This CPU-s will punish Intel for good.
I don't think BD is going to be THAT revolutionary.

Sure for scientific, server, and HPC loads it'll really shine but Joe Schmoe the Marketing exec/non technical user probably won't see any benefit coming from BD (that's that Llano is for).

Sure I don't the anti trust tactics Intel used but it's been settled (AFAIK). Although the long term repercussions that AMD have to suffer with (ie. the Intel brand name getting ingrained into the average users mind while AMD takes a back seat) will probably be permanent.

Anyways, I'm holding out for BD (if any BOINC project takes advantage of the AVX and other AMD instructions it'll have me crunching for it). Supposedly I also have free reign over my computer at the place I'll be working at this summer (I get a stipend/blank cheque for computing equipment I'll require and anything over the budget they give me I have to cover, I'm thinking a Llano in this case will be best for power and price).
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post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by pietro sk View Post
Hmm, so you think virtual threads are powerfull like real threads aka real cores ? i dont think so.
if it was true, virtual threads would gain 100% performance, not just 20% or less.

significant gains ? where? in benchmarking tools ? real life loads are different, for sure.

Hyperthreading is like making one lane highway used as two lanes. If load is low, it´s okay.
But if load is high, there will be bottleneck. And here we are - first thread (lane) 100%, second ~20% or less performance.

Thats why Xeons are good at singlethreaded and lower loads, and Opterons are better at high load and heavy threaded load.
Well, Opteron 6000 series were awarded as best multithreaded processor.
Yes, you can picture it like a 2 lane street diverging into one lane. There could be tons of traffic but the car in the other lane must slow down in order to get into that single lane. That's what slows hyper threading down.

AMD's approach IMHO is way better than Intel's. And AMD's approach is new where as Intel has been doing Hyperthreading ever since P4.
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post #30 of 30
10-20% =/= huge
Actually it should be even smaller than 10-20% even in those heavily multithreaded apps
I've seen a lot of benches proving that HT is really not very effective
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