Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Bright] NVIDIA Project Denver is a 64-bit ARM Processor Architecture
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Bright] NVIDIA Project Denver is a 64-bit ARM Processor Architecture - Page 3

post #21 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post
We are already headed in that direction with x86-based CPUs.

AMD Fusion is the best example of ARM-like power consumption w/desktop-like performance with Atom + Intel HD 3000 in second place.

The only problem with Atom is that it executes instructions in-order but it has excellent performance per watt. It seems like Intel could easily alleviate this issue by just giving it branch prediction or whatever its called.

Besides, I don't expect to run resource intensive programs like Photoshop, 3DS Max, and Visual Studio on my tablet PC.

To echo what AMD is saying, we have reached a sort of singularity with CPU performance in the desktop space. With that in mind, I don't see any more room for a competitor like ARM especially since we don't know how efficient it can run x86 instructions and there is no way it will beat the juggernauts at their own game.


Nvidia is not allowed to use the x86 instruction set due to licensing restrictions.
post #22 of 41
Can someone real quick inform me to the plus and minuses of the two architecture and why it might be beneficial to switch from x86-64 to ARM?
post #23 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudypoochris View Post
Can someone real quick inform me to the plus and minuses of the two architecture and why it might be beneficial to switch from x86-64 to ARM?
Pros:
Power consumption
Cons:
20 years of x86 legacy code won't work
Po' Pimpin'
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
i5 2500k @ stock Biostar TZ68K+ [A3] 4GB  Sandforce 1222 64GB SSD 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG 22x DVD-+RW  Stock Windows 7 x64 Acer S211HL 1080p 
PowerCaseMouse
600w Diablotek Linkworld Electronic Inland 
  hide details  
Reply
Po' Pimpin'
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
i5 2500k @ stock Biostar TZ68K+ [A3] 4GB  Sandforce 1222 64GB SSD 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
LG 22x DVD-+RW  Stock Windows 7 x64 Acer S211HL 1080p 
PowerCaseMouse
600w Diablotek Linkworld Electronic Inland 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 41
We don't know if ARM will have power benefits when it as equal performance with the latest x86 chips. I highly doubt NVIDIA will be able to create a chip that matches the performance and power characteristics of the newest Intel chips. If you haven't read it, ars has a great article on the subject here.
 
HTPC
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-3930k MSI X79MA-GD45 Powercolor 7950 G Skill 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung 830 Swiftech Apogee XT Rev. 1 EK-FC HWLabs Black Ice GTX 240 and a Koolance HX-CU72... 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
MCP 35X and a MCP 350 Koolance 401x2 Opensuse 12.1 Windows 7 
KeyboardPowerCase
Ducky OCN with cherry blues Antec True Power New 650W Cooler Master CM690 II 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-750 Gigabyte p55-ud2 GTX 430 G Skill 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Samsung HD204UI Fedora 15 Corsair CX-430 Silverstone GC04 
  hide details  
Reply
 
HTPC
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-3930k MSI X79MA-GD45 Powercolor 7950 G Skill 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung 830 Swiftech Apogee XT Rev. 1 EK-FC HWLabs Black Ice GTX 240 and a Koolance HX-CU72... 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
MCP 35X and a MCP 350 Koolance 401x2 Opensuse 12.1 Windows 7 
KeyboardPowerCase
Ducky OCN with cherry blues Antec True Power New 650W Cooler Master CM690 II 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-750 Gigabyte p55-ud2 GTX 430 G Skill 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
Samsung HD204UI Fedora 15 Corsair CX-430 Silverstone GC04 
  hide details  
Reply
post #25 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdatmo View Post
We don't know if ARM will have power benefits when it as equal performance with the latest x86 chips. I highly doubt NVIDIA will be able to create a chip that matches the performance and power characteristics of the newest Intel chips. If you haven't read it, ars has a great article on the subject here.
Here is a good way to put it.
Quote:
The ARM enthusiasm on this front among pundits and analysts is way overblown—you don't just sprinkle magic out-of-order pixie dust on a mobile phone CPU core and turn it into a Core i3, i5, or Xeon competitor. People who expect to see a classic processor performance shoot-out in which some multicore ARM chip spanks a Xeon are going to be disappointed for the foreseeable future.
ARM is really only going to be competitive in the mobile market.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon 5000 x2 Black Edition  BioStar 790GX 128M BFG 9800GT 1024 Mb 4x1 GB's of random thingies  
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
300GB Maxtor  Windows 7-U 64bit HP 19"  Logetech 
PowerCaseMouse
400 watt silver stone  Ultra Grid Logitech 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon 5000 x2 Black Edition  BioStar 790GX 128M BFG 9800GT 1024 Mb 4x1 GB's of random thingies  
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
300GB Maxtor  Windows 7-U 64bit HP 19"  Logetech 
PowerCaseMouse
400 watt silver stone  Ultra Grid Logitech 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post
Pros:
Power consumption
Cons:
20 years of x86 legacy code won't work
Power consumption is only theoretically true (better performance/mm^2 is a safer statement). POWER is RISC just like ARM, but POWER has an extremely high power consumption.

As performance scales higher and the size of the chip increases, the complexities of design and the number of problems increase exponentially. ARM (while a better architecture than x86) isn't some shining knight come to solve the problems of mid-high performance computing. When ARM designers decide to compete with IBM, Oracle, Intel, and AMD; they will find that it's not quite as easy as it appears (reworking old problems to avoid patents is another huge problem).

The best bet on that front is still the Chinese Loongson chip. It is MIPS based (MIPS is nearly identical to ARM) architecture and already 64-bit. The third iteration supposedly achieves 70% of its theoretical performance when emulating x86 as well.
post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdatmo View Post
We don't know if ARM will have power benefits when it as equal performance with the latest x86 chips. I highly doubt NVIDIA will be able to create a chip that matches the performance and power characteristics of the newest Intel chips. If you haven't read it, ars has a great article on the subject here.
It seems with where Nvidia is headed, they are looking more for a CPU that serves to do the general processing and all of the admin related tasks but offload all of the heavy lifting to the GPUs so a 64-bit ARM CPU would be perfect for them. The performance per watt of the combination of a 64-bit ARM CPU and a Nvidia GPU would be incredible.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X2 5000+ BE Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+ Integrated HD3200 2x2GB OCZ DDR2 
Hard DriveMonitorPowerCase
Maxtor 40GB Samsung 2220WM 22" Antec Neo HE 550W Ultra Wizard 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X2 5000+ BE Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+ Integrated HD3200 2x2GB OCZ DDR2 
Hard DriveMonitorPowerCase
Maxtor 40GB Samsung 2220WM 22" Antec Neo HE 550W Ultra Wizard 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by parityboy;12657298 
It depends on how scaleable the architecture is. Increased dominance in the smaller devices (tablets, smart phones, cars, televisions etc.), which far outnumber both servers and desktops, means there could be a chance of developers wanting to use ARM skill sets in server applications. Seriously, is there a need for a 64-bit smartphone?

ARM is obviously as general-purpose as x86, so it depends on the performance-per-transistor and performance-per-Watt metrics.

There is no reason a high performance architecture based off the ARM instructions couldn't best intel in servers or desktops. It is just the preference of OEMs and software developers right now to develop for x86 based platforms. All of the high level programming languages have compilers available for ARM, and many x86 programs have been recompiled for ARM instructions. It could literally happen at any moment if enough people got behind it.
post #29 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by mothergoose729 View Post
There is no reason a high performance architecture based off the ARM instructions couldn't best intel in servers or desktops. It is just the preference of OEMs and software developers right now to develop for x86 based platforms. All of the high level programming languages have compilers available for ARM, and many x86 programs have been recompiled for ARM instructions. It could literally happen at any moment if enough people got behind it.
Exactly this. And people on this thread seem to have missed a very important point - it's a 64-bit architecture.

If this chip wasn't intended for the server market, why go 64-bit? It's obviously designed with memory-intensive applications in mind (i.e. more than 4GB RAM). How many netbooks and tablets need 4GB+?
Ryzen
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Gigabyte GA-AB350M Gaming 3 Palit GT-430 Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 850 EVO AMD Wraith Spire Linux Mint 18.x Dell UltraSharp U2414H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Apple Basic Keyboard Thermaltake ToughPower 850W Lian-Li PC-A04B Logitech Trackman Wheel 
  hide details  
Reply
Ryzen
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Gigabyte GA-AB350M Gaming 3 Palit GT-430 Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 850 EVO AMD Wraith Spire Linux Mint 18.x Dell UltraSharp U2414H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Apple Basic Keyboard Thermaltake ToughPower 850W Lian-Li PC-A04B Logitech Trackman Wheel 
  hide details  
Reply
post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by r34p3rex View Post
Pretty simple, it'd be great if we could merge the mobile (tablets, phones) market with the desktop (laptops, desktops, servers) market. With windows 8 supporting ARM.. I can see ARM adoption going way up. Imagine running the same programs on your tablet as you do on your desktop
Thats too far ahead in the future at this point though. Tablets will get replaced just like they are trying to do with netbook/notebooks.

Also companies don't want you running the same program on 2 different devices like that, there is no extra money in that for them.
Computer
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 5 1400 3.8Ghz Gigabyte AB350M-HD3 MSI Geforce GTX 1060 3GB Gaming X G.Skill 16GB(2x8GB) 3200Mhz DDR4 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
SSDs and HDDs Windows 10 x64 Pro Acer G7 G227HQLbi @75Hz EVGA 430w 
Case
Deepcool Frame 
  hide details  
Reply
Computer
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 5 1400 3.8Ghz Gigabyte AB350M-HD3 MSI Geforce GTX 1060 3GB Gaming X G.Skill 16GB(2x8GB) 3200Mhz DDR4 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
SSDs and HDDs Windows 10 x64 Pro Acer G7 G227HQLbi @75Hz EVGA 430w 
Case
Deepcool Frame 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Bright] NVIDIA Project Denver is a 64-bit ARM Processor Architecture