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post #31 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
I seriously hope there's a gnome-legacy or the like, I hate gnome shell.
If you turn off compositing it revers back to normal.

Gnome had compositing before 3.0, its just that nobody cared. I get the feeling that not much will change.
    
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post #32 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Gnome had compositing before 3.0, its just that nobody cared. I get the feeling that not much will change.
Are you sure about that? I thought Compiz was the only way?
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post #33 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
If you turn off compositing it revers back to normal.

Gnome had compositing before 3.0, its just that nobody cared. I get the feeling that not much will change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post
Are you sure about that? I thought Compiz was the only way?
i think he means that metacity (gnomes default windows manager) is a composite windows manager...

its not really a new thing, compiz is more or less an extreme example of "compositing".

compositing isn't really all that impressive, depends on how much "GUI Goodies" you like, do you want trasnparency, do you want wobbly windows, do you like desktop and video zooming...etc...

you can have software compositing without hardware support, but it is often slowing, and like if you move a window, you get that tearing effect as it redraws the window, it became more mainstream and faster, once it started using hardware compositing.

if you want to look at the differences, look at XP compared to 7's gui, XP uses a "stacking" windows manager, which allows you to over-lay windows on other windows and to go full screen while other windows are open, vs just tiling them (placing them in open sections of the screen without over-lapping).

things like compiz (even kwin), are cheap tricks to make linux GUI seem brilliantly pretty, but they offer no real world productivity, unless you thinking writing in fire across your screen or how fast you can spin the cube, is being productive, more power to you
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post #34 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
things like compiz (even kwin), are cheap tricks to make linux GUI seem brilliantly pretty, but they offer no real world productivity, unless you thinking writing in fire across your screen or how fast you can spin the cube, is being productive, more power to you
KWin has a better version of Aero snap, which for some reason only seems to work with compositing WMs.

Its not worth the performance hit to switch from metacity to KWin though so I will just use kwin --replace when I need it.
    
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post #35 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Honestly, it doesn't. It happened a lot with XP and Vista, but with Windows 7 I can have everything up and running properly with no BS 20 minutes after the first boot. I never have to touch a config file, touch the command line, or mess with dependencies. I simply can't do that with any Linux distribution.


Windows is unrivaled in it's ability to just 'work' on pretty much any PC in existence. You cannot dispute that.
It has to be quick..considering the common method for fixing Windows issues seems to be a reinstall.
post #36 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Honestly, it doesn't. It happened a lot with XP and Vista, but with Windows 7 I can have everything up and running properly with no BS 20 minutes after the first boot. I never have to touch a config file, touch the command line, or mess with dependencies. I simply can't do that with any Linux distribution.


Windows is unrivaled in it's ability to just 'work' on pretty much any PC in existence. You cannot dispute that.
To do this with a Linux distribution, you have to put the DVD in your drive and boot from it.
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post #37 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
And after the package manager installs it you usually have to google to figure out why its not running properly, if its running at all, or why its not configured properly, or why its missing a key component because you don't have an optional dependency installed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Honestly, it doesn't. It happened a lot with XP and Vista, but with Windows 7 I can have everything up and running properly with no BS 20 minutes after the first boot. I never have to touch a config file, touch the command line, or mess with dependencies. I simply can't do that with any Linux distribution.


Windows is unrivaled in it's ability to just 'work' on pretty much any PC in existence. You cannot dispute that.
you use arch right? when you are relating these problems as general linux problems, they are typically associated with problems inside arch linux. i've ran arch and i run ubuntu, i experience about 10 times more problems in arch due to dependency issues than i have ever in ubuntu...

same with this mythical "configurations" you talk of, its the price you pay for using arch linux that you have to go a step further (or 20) to get it working, vs getting it to work in say ubuntu...

i made the statement i made earlier, cause you made it sound like these problems only exist in the linux world...are business's, companies, schools who have refused upgrading to vista and 7, due to compatibility issues with software they use, exempt all the sudden cause they do matter since they aren't using the "greatest windows ever"? (and honestly, you can't use the whole "vmware" xp thing as a good solution, since it is only made available to 7 and the more expensive versions of 7 at that...)

when i install ubuntu fresh, i can have it up and running (including the install of the OS, updates, and a majority of the programs i use) with in 30 minutes...last time i installed windows, i do believe just the installation of the os, and updates (no additional software) took well over 2 hours...and i don't touch a single config file, command line, or worry about dependencies either...

when you mean "pc" you mean the ibm compatible x86 right? cause i have a arm based netbook, and a powerPC, and i do have a friend who has a itanium, that do not run windows (well the itanium can, but good luck finding any software to run in the windows version.)

and your choice of "just works on any pc in existance" is a bit subjective, as i have a laptop, that was made in 2005, that ran okay with xp sp2, but runs like a 3 legged dog with a blind fold on with sp3, and i have to do extensive "configuring" of win7 to get it even to run decently...

oh well, you can't "c:\\win" all the hearts and minds of everyone when they try linux, cause they are always way to busy comparing the ways linux is different to windows or how windows way is "better" than the linux way...
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post #38 of 61
I can definitely get an out of the box Linux distro like Mint or Ubuntu (or even redhat or SUSE) up and running with everything I want much faster than windows. I know this because I spent the last year or so changing distros every week until I finally settle on Arch. A big part of this is because the repository/package system is so much quicker than having to go to separate websites to download apps or put cd's in in windows.

Not everyone wants to spend a day + in setup or time fixing things with Arch or Gentoo etc. I think the reward is worth it but if not there are plenty of very easy distros.

Something like PCLinuxOS is even easier as it comes with almost every driver right out of the box much like windows.
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post #39 of 61
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You're doing the same thing that I do with Arch with Windows. I may be a little guilty on the whole Arch thing, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I can't remember the last time it took me 2 hours to install Windows. It must have been on XP with my old 478 Celeron. Even getting XP to run in virtualbox, which involved a full installation, upgrading it from SP1 to SP3 and installing all of the VMWare drivers took around an hour from inserting my XP home disc to watching Mythbusters on Netflix.

For simple things like browsing the web and checking email, yea its easier in Linux.

But what about things like wireless? Even with Ubuntu it can be a pain.

Or how about sound? Assuming your soundcard even works right, you're probably missing basic codecs like MP3, so you have to track down the appropriate plugin for your distro. In Windows it all works correctly right away, and for the few codecs than don't work you have the k-lite codec pack, which in one click gives you everything.

Its even worse if you want to watch live TV. In Windows 7 you simply have to start Media Center and provide your location information so it can download the program guide, but in Linux with programs like MythTV you have to mess around with MySQL databases.

And how about multi-monitor support? It varies by video card, but with nVidia if you want to add/configure a second monitor you need to write the changes to a separate xorg.conf and then open up a terminal and sudo cp it to /etc/X11 and then restart X. In Windows that stuff just works, no restarts required. It also works with 3 monitors, whereas in Linux the third monitor has to run it's own X server, which totally messes with the DE.

Linux also fails when it comes to presentations. Getting slides to display properly when connected to a projector is damn near impossible.

And then there is RAID support. fakeraid doesn't work out of the box on any distro I know of, yet it works perfectly on Windows.


All of this is just my own personal experiences, and they are the main reasons why I still use Windows on my desktop. I haven't booted into Windows on my laptop for well over a month, but thats because I mainly use it for work. As an actual "personal computer" though, Linux can't compete with Windows.
    
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post #40 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
You're doing the same thing that I do with Arch with Windows. I may be a little guilty on the whole Arch thing, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.


I can't remember the last time it took me 2 hours to install Windows. It must have been on XP with my old 478 Celeron. Even getting XP to run in virtualbox, which involved a full installation, upgrading it from SP1 to SP3 and installing all of the VMWare drivers took around an hour from inserting my XP home disc to watching Mythbusters on Netflix.

For simple things like browsing the web and checking email, yea its easier in Linux.

But what about things like wireless? Even with Ubuntu it can be a pain.

Or how about sound? Assuming your soundcard even works right, you're probably missing basic codecs like MP3, so you have to track down the appropriate plugin for your distro. In Windows it all works correctly right away, and for the few codecs than don't work you have the k-lite codec pack, which in one click gives you everything.

Its even worse if you want to watch live TV. In Windows 7 you simply have to start Media Center and provide your location information so it can download the program guide, but in Linux with programs like MythTV you have to mess around with MySQL databases.

And how about multi-monitor support? It varies by video card, but with nVidia if you want to add/configure a second monitor you need to write the changes to a separate xorg.conf and then open up a terminal and sudo cp it to /etc/X11 and then restart X. In Windows that stuff just works, no restarts required. It also works with 3 monitors, whereas in Linux the third monitor has to run it's own X server, which totally messes with the DE.

Linux also fails when it comes to presentations. Getting slides to display properly when connected to a projector is damn near impossible.

And then there is RAID support. fakeraid doesn't work out of the box on any distro I know of, yet it works perfectly on Windows.


All of this is just my own personal experiences, and they are the main reasons why I still use Windows on my desktop. I haven't booted into Windows on my laptop for well over a month, but thats because I mainly use it for work. As an actual "personal computer" though, Linux can't compete with Windows.
sorry if i came off strong and saying you were wrong, i wasn't actually. i was trying to convey that what you are saying is "bad" in linux is very subjective.

we all have our reasons to be using linux, as a lot of those points for a lot of linux users is the reason why they don't like windows...and love linux, so how can a feature of linux that people love about it, be wrong?

now obviously you don't like that about linux, but there are different distro choices, you did make the choice to use arch linux right? or was it forced upon you, i could see a dislike for it but sticking with it cause it was forced upon you...if you can, maybe you should switch over to another distro (i hear linux mint is good for starters coming out of windows, or for people who don't like ubuntu, but who want to stay with debian based distro but find debian too outdated.)

and honestly nathris, you aren't wrong, but you are not right either...you have formed a independent opinion on the things that you don't like about arch linux, and with opinions, they are like noses most everyone has one...but they are far from being facts...or even right or wrong...

to me, you further compounded this discussion, by comparing these "problems" with how windows handles them...most of us here have windows experience...where you can point out a linux "issue" that windows doesn't have, and i can turn around and point to a windows "issue" that linux doesn't have, you see its a vicious circle, you will never get any where or learn anything if you compare only windows strengths, ignoring its weakness, and then pitting those strengths only against linux weakness...

that is where you start seeing all these fanboi roid rage flame threads, cause only linux lacking, and weakness are discussed...then you have a quite experience linux user go "wait a minute, linux has these strengths over windows weaknesses" then it just back and forth...

i mean i can spend all day writing long diatribes on how windows has introduced mediocre for the last 20 years, with little to no innovation, stinting the growth of far more advanced and powerful, or even cheaper, less power hungry hardware architectures, in favor of continued support only for the slow, outdated and bloated x86 instruction set...then i can set here, and compare each version of windows, explaining in great deal, offering proof, how windows has duped us into buying the same OS for the last 20 years...but i'm honestly sick and tired of these constant why windows is better or why linux is better type of threads.

if we all can, do you think we can swing this discussion to ubuntu current decision to use unity instead of gnome? as we are all very well aware of linux weakness, its strengths, and those of windows...
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