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post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Correct. su is switch user. It actually has nothing to do with gaining root privileges. The only reason it gets confused with sudo is that su defaults to root if you don't supply a user name.

If I just type "su" I will switch to root. If I want to go back I type "su nathris"


Also, vi/vim/emacs/etc.. are useless as far as I'm concerned. They are only used by people old enough to have grown up without a modern GUI. The only time I would ever consider using one is through SSH.

If you're doing something simple like editing a config file then nano is all you need. Anything more than cut/copy/paste/find is useless.

For anything else I wouldn't give up gedit with my built in console/python terminal, build tools, tabs, and sessions for anything.
Noooooo
http://pthree.org/2009/12/31/the-meaning-of-su/
It goes way back to the original Unix code and meanings. Originally SU was SuperUser and not SwitchUser, which is what we have re-designed it to be. Well, kind of, we just added extra options in it.

[edit] http://www.bsdlover.cn/study/UnixTre...e/s2/su.c.html

There is an actual source for ya. =)

[edit2] Screw wikipedia, I just edited it for correctness and hopefully some idiocy will stop.
Edited by mushroomboy - 3/9/11 at 11:54am
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post #32 of 66
Mind = blown
    
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post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Mind = blown
Yeah, I've been doing linux for over 8+ years, I remember when we didn't have any good documentation. All the original documentation states SuperUser and not any of the other BS. In fact you couldn't change accounts unless logging out, because originally unless you used virtual users you couldn't have two accounts logged in. (unsure, but pretty sure it was created for that purpose otherwise they could have just used ctrl+F# to get to a new ttyl in CLI.) ASLSDAFDKFSKDAF It's why I left linuxquestions because people were being stupid, they argued to the death that it was SwitchUser. They brought out any site they could, I actually just found this source code today. =P Which back then would have stopped the argument right there, but no they had to be buntu scrubs. =(

[edit] I mean two accounts logged in using the same computer, obviously you can set up mainframes and have for a while. The thing is, xfree86 didn't allow that and so most desktops couldn't. It had to be modified.

http://tldp.org/HOWTO/XFree-Local-multi-user-HOWTO/

[edit2] This pre-dates my actual experience, this was at least 10+ years ago. =P Back then all I could do was install the OS and hope it worked.

[edit3] I don't remember if they had multiple tty's back then, they might have. Which would have allowed for multiple cli access but still not desktop. (still not sure when ctrl+F# switching was introduced, I'm not that old. )
Edited by mushroomboy - 3/9/11 at 12:10pm
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post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Noooooo
http://pthree.org/2009/12/31/the-meaning-of-su/
It goes way back to the original Unix code and meanings. Originally SU was SuperUser and not SwitchUser, which is what we have re-designed it to be. Well, kind of, we just added extra options in it.

[edit] http://www.bsdlover.cn/study/UnixTre...e/s2/su.c.html

There is an actual source for ya. =)

[edit2] Screw wikipedia, I just edited it for correctness and hopefully some idiocy will stop.
there you happy? you gone and done it, you have confused me

so originally su meant "super user"...then at some point some one created su for linux, and made it mean "subshell", then at some point, it was easier to explain "su" as being "switch user" or "substitute user", cause it is just easier to explain the process that way than explaining subshell...

to me, regardless of what it started out as, or what it means, it still boils down to how we use it:

i use su to switch between various users in a persistent manner, and i use sudo to "gain" temp root privileges. (if i have sudo installed or enabled at all.)

for GUI programs if i need them, since i use kde, i use kdesu to run them, as going to su, and then trying to run a graphical program, throws an error how it can't connect to xorg...

oh well, back to coffee for me hehe.
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post #35 of 66
Thread Starter 
hm... was playin around a little bit... su -c doesnt do the same thing as sudo at all it seems :/

su -c runs one program with root permissions... it gets really pissy if you try to use it like sudo....

couldnt

su -c rm -r /home/newuser/downloads

because su says that -r is an invalid argument... so what its trying to do is its trying to run the rm program, and then su is using the -r modifier for itself, which doesnt quite work :/ so doing a simple alias sudo='su -c' does not work and if you want the functionality of sudo, you really do have to set it up

honestly though, its not that hard to set up a sudoers file lol


AND IM GLAD AT LEAST SOME ONE LIKES NANO MORE THAN VI lol

visudo is closer to nano than actual vi just puttin that out there...
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Kinda meh now...
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post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
there you happy? you gone and done it, you have confused me

so originally su meant "super user"...then at some point some one created su for linux, and made it mean "subshell", then at some point, it was easier to explain "su" as being "switch user" or "substitute user", cause it is just easier to explain the process that way than explaining subshell...

to me, regardless of what it started out as, or what it means, it still boils down to how we use it:

i use su to switch between various users in a persistent manner, and i use sudo to "gain" temp root privileges. (if i have sudo installed or enabled at all.)

for GUI programs if i need them, since i use kde, i use kdesu to run them, as going to su, and then trying to run a graphical program, throws an error how it can't connect to xorg...

oh well, back to coffee for me hehe.
No, SuperUser was the intention. It was ment to give you root access in a terminal because I'm guessing they didn't have it implemented so that you could login as a different user. If you used a new TTYL, like when booting CLI and hitting Alt+F1 or Alt+F2, that you could login as a new user. The problem comes into play when you login as a user into a graphical environment and cannot login as another user. You create SU so that the user doesn't have to be logged in as root to interact with the system and change Admin settings. You couldn't run a terminal and go "login root" in GUI, so what do you do? SU! Why would you need to login as a different user? I mean honestly, why? When you can be root you can do what they can do, if file permissions needed to be re-set you just set them.

[edit] If you think about it, running a system with users (back then) ment that the admins gave the users privacy. It's something we don't really think about today, but user accounts should be left alone. If you want to set something up you should do it as an admin so they can access the files and do the work themselves.

[edit2] You also have the problem of doing remote logins, you could only log in once per session. That wasn't because the system didn't allow you, but terminal access doesn't let you:

Code:
mrshroom@173-18-215-75:~$ login root
login: Cannot possibly work without effective root
mrshroom@173-18-215-75:~$
Simply put, once you are in a session you can't get into another session as user. SU lets you do this, but the intention wasn't to log in as other users (just log out and back in) but to let admins become a user and still have a way to be an admin. Making extensive groups and policies puts security at risk. The next step to this was to let admins be admins without logging in as root, single command operations ran by SUDO.

[edit, no the last one] SwitchUser, or at least the ability to Switch User wasn't added until way later. You don't make a command, name it, and then re-name it. SU doesn't become SwitchUser because it gets the ability, it's still SuperUser but with new additions. VI didn't change, that's not how it works. However people find out it can Switch Users and then think "oh, switch user (SU)" and write it into their tutorials. As tutorials get popularized and used more and more people use the term. The new term goes into mainstream and the old term gets forgotten, however that doesn't mean SU was ment to be SwitchUser. It's original intentions were to be ROOT, that's it.
Edited by mushroomboy - 3/9/11 at 3:55pm
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post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
<snip>
so how is it used now?

i'm still confused man...i totally missed "got the point" bus today with this whole SU thing.

i read the one article said in unix it is "super user", in linux it can be "switch user" or "subshell"...

regardless i will still remember "su" as switch user and sudo as "super user do"...
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post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
so how is it used now?

i'm still confused man...i totally missed "got the point" bus today with this whole SU thing.

i read the one article said in unix it is "super user", in linux it can be "switch user" or "subshell"...

regardless i will still remember "su" as switch user and sudo as "super user do"...
Originally it was designed for SuperUser, but due to... Well I honestly don't know, I still call it Super User because that's what it was ment to be called. I'll always say Super User, I'll never use Switch User or whatever those other terms are. I was taught Super User, I'll use Super User. "Mainstream" linux has started calling it Switch User, but I believe that's wrong and misleading. That wasn't it's intentions, never was... =(
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post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Originally it was designed for SuperUser, but due to... Well I honestly don't know, I still call it Super User because that's what it was ment to be called. I'll always say Super User, I'll never use Switch User or whatever those other terms are. I was taught Super User, I'll use Super User. "Mainstream" linux has started calling it Switch User, but I believe that's wrong and misleading. That wasn't it's intentions, never was... =(
Its switch user now probably because at one point someone realized that the root user was just a user, and having a program that only switches to a single user is a waste of space. By setting the default user to 'root' (you can actually find user = "root" in the initialization) and taking an additional user parameter they can turn two programs into one without losing any functionality, and since this is Unix, and not Windows, functionality trumps backwards compatibility.



Calling it superuser is actually bit of a misnomer, because thats obviously not what it does now.
    
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post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Its switch user now probably because at one point someone realized that the root user was just a user, and having a program that only switches to a single user is a waste of space. By setting the default user to 'root' (you can actually find user = "root" in the initialization) and taking an additional user parameter they can turn two programs into one without losing any functionality, and since this is Unix, and not Windows, functionality trumps backwards compatibility.



Calling it superuser is actually bit of a misnomer, because thats obviously not what it does now.
It's not really a misnomer, because that's what SU was intended to be. A misnomer would be saying SwitchUser Do for SUDO, but obviously SUDO can't switch users. LS isn't List Services, It's LiSt. Even though LS has changed function to do more functions than just list files/contents we haven't changed it's original meaning. All we did was give LS switches, just like SU got switches. There was no change in meaning or intended use, just added function above that use. To me that means SU will always be SuperUser, as that's it's original and primary function.

[edit] Actually Switch User is a misnomer too, because that's not the intended primary function of SU. SU's primary goal is to give you SuperUser, everything else is new.
Edited by mushroomboy - 3/9/11 at 7:15pm
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