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The VM Server all-in-one thread [work in progress - updated 3-17-11]

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
There's seems to be VM threads in a number of different forums on OCN, mostly under "Operating systems". Which makes sense. But I don't see any really long dedicated (or pinned) threads for just VMs or more specifically VM servers.

There are actually two different approaches to running VMs which I will unofficially dub casual and dedicated. I'm just making these differentiations up for clarity...
  1. casual: Something like VirtualPC, VMWare Player or VirtualBox that is an installable application on your standard XP/Vista/7/Ubuntu sort of host. These can be used for OS install experiments, running that legacy application that just can't quite run under Windows 7, isolating functions from the primary OS, etc. Designed to run along side Word and Firefox as a regular application
  2. dedicated: This is a an entire OS/VM technology that dedicates a physical machine to nothing but running virtual guests. This technology includes KVM, Xen, Hyper-V and VMWare ESXi. Dedicated as in "PC only for VMs" and dedicated "using bare metal solution". It works on two levels. These typically are typically used for things like storing large amounts of data, combining several functions that would otherwise require multiple boxes into a single chassis et. al.

My goal for this thread is make the definitive source for dedicated VM servers: both in terms of hardware dedicated to VM hosting and in software that designed to do nothing but host VMs.

Edit - Clarification: I wanted to emphasize "bare metal" VM solutions ("dedicated" above) for home use in this specific thread to keep it specific to the "server" forum. I supposed you could theoretically use VMWare Workstation, VPC or VirtualBox on an old XP machine for this purpose but that would probably be more appropriate in the OS forum. Right?

What's the best hardware for VMs? How do you optimize performance? What are advantages and disadvantages of the different technologies? Should emphasis be placed on lots of 6Gbps sata HDDs or on a fancy Core i7? How about tips and tricks you can do with VM technology? Can Hyper-V effectively host linux guests? How well does Xen host Server 2008 R2? These are just some of the things I hope to explore.

First some links:
VMWare vSphere HyperVisor (free)
Citrix Xen Server (Free)
Linux KVM (free)
MS Hyper-V (cheap via technet or MSDN. Students can check out MS DreamSpark for options)

The "VM extension"

The "VM extension" is basically hardware acceleration for VMs. Some solutions, like MS Hyper-V actually require this feature to install. Typically you can find a toggle setting for the feature in your BIOS/CMOS.
  • AMD - uses AMD-V: nearly all AMD processors for sale will have this feature. No included on low-end Semprons
  • Intel - uses VT-x: All "modern" CPUs include feature. Some low-end celerons and "Pentiums" do not. Intel has an official list at their site. (check out the Atom link for. Hey, at least they're cheap).
  • A Xen documentation page actually lists all the AMD/Intel CPUs that have this VM extension.
  • In my experience shopping new egg for parts recently I found plenty of Intels without the extension but few to no AMDs that didn't have it (I wasn't shopping Semprons though).

The question of the VM extension can be approached from two angles:
  • Does my current CPU already have it?
  • When shopping for a new CPU which how do I know if the extension is included?

Does my current CPU already have the extension?

If you happen to have Linux handy (installed, live CD/usb drive/whatever) it's relatively easy with the following command line, thanks to an article over at howto geek:

Code:
egrep ‘(vmx|svm)’ /proc/cpuinfo
Look for the following in the output, related to your brand of course:
  • VMX for Intel
  • SVM for AMD

If you're linux-adverse then you can search for your CPU on CPU World.

If you're unsure of the name of you processor (hopefully not an issue for any OCN members) the name is on the "General" tab of System Properties in XP and in the "system" section the system control panel applet in Windows 7 (and I assume Vista as well). In any case you can right-click "Computer" and select "properties" to bring the respective screen up (again, hopefully the explanation was unnecessary).

When shopping for a new CPU

If you're building a new system new egg makes it easy (whether you buy from them or not) to figure out if a particular processor has the extension: on any product page for a CPU go to the "Details" tab and look for the "Virtualization Technology Support" line:



For users looking to started with the "casual" side Error10 has an excellent thread about virtualization with VirtualBox in the OS forum.

I am planning on working on this regularly. More to come!

Feel free to provide suggestions and links below.

Update 3/13/11: re-worded several sections for better clarity and added some organization to the VM extension section.
Update 3/17/11: Added link to Intel's official list of VT-x enabled processors. Note the Link to Atoms: some of them actually include it now.
Edited by subassy - 3/17/11 at 10:59pm
 
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CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Ivy Bridge Core i7-3630QM nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s 
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Western Digital hard drive wd1001fals-00e8b0 Maxtor 300GB I don't need no stinking optical drive Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
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CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Ivy Bridge Core i7-3630QM nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s Windows 10 Pro x64 17.3" FHD 16:9 (1920x1080) Battery: Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell) 
Audio
Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 860 Biostar T5 XE Radeon HD 5870 Corsair 16GB  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Western Digital hard drive wd1001fals-00e8b0 Maxtor 300GB I don't need no stinking optical drive Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
HP ZR24w 24'' Samsung SyncMaster 24" logitech wireless k360 Seventeam ST-850ZAF 850W ATX 
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Thermaltake V9 Black Edition Logitech G500 Programmable Gaming Mouse FiiO E7 USB DAC and Portable Headphone Amplifier Sennheiser HD555 Professional Headphones 
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post #2 of 33
Thread Starter 
Links and Resources


The video podcast hak5 recently did some episodes on VM servers including a "Proxmox Virtual Environment" and some Virtualization Cluster tricks.

Xen Resources
Edited by subassy - 3/11/11 at 12:47pm
 
VM Server
(17 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Ivy Bridge Core i7-3630QM nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s Windows 10 Pro x64 17.3" FHD 16:9 (1920x1080) Battery: Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell) 
Audio
Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 860 Biostar T5 XE Radeon HD 5870 Corsair 16GB  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Western Digital hard drive wd1001fals-00e8b0 Maxtor 300GB I don't need no stinking optical drive Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
HP ZR24w 24'' Samsung SyncMaster 24" logitech wireless k360 Seventeam ST-850ZAF 850W ATX 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Thermaltake V9 Black Edition Logitech G500 Programmable Gaming Mouse FiiO E7 USB DAC and Portable Headphone Amplifier Sennheiser HD555 Professional Headphones 
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VM Server
(17 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Ivy Bridge Core i7-3630QM nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s Windows 10 Pro x64 17.3" FHD 16:9 (1920x1080) Battery: Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell) 
Audio
Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 860 Biostar T5 XE Radeon HD 5870 Corsair 16GB  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Western Digital hard drive wd1001fals-00e8b0 Maxtor 300GB I don't need no stinking optical drive Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
HP ZR24w 24'' Samsung SyncMaster 24" logitech wireless k360 Seventeam ST-850ZAF 850W ATX 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Thermaltake V9 Black Edition Logitech G500 Programmable Gaming Mouse FiiO E7 USB DAC and Portable Headphone Amplifier Sennheiser HD555 Professional Headphones 
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post #3 of 33
Great idea! +rep for it.

Lots of ram or lots of CPU or lots of hdd speed will depend on what the thing is used for. in my experience 1 CPU core per 1.5GB of ram or so, basically so each VM can roughly get a core to itself and 1.5GB of ram which is acceptable for most things (such as XP, Vista etc).

Similiar math is worked out for terminal services stuff, and VPS's for example total 8000mhz of cpu speed, 400mhz per user, 256mb ram and 5GB space
Edited by Norse - 3/10/11 at 1:37am
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post #4 of 33
It's a nice idea, but there is no 'best' or 'recommended' setup or requirements - the VM software you use and the hardware you need will depend on the exact requirements of ALL of the VMs you want to use.

As an example:

If you have lots of VMs with relatively high I/O requirements but very low cpu usage requirements, an Atom or other low-power CPU plus an SSD array might be best.

If you do lots of computation, a dual hex-core i7 Xeon build might be best, but it might need only a RAID1 of SATA drives for it's storage system. It might need 3GB RAM, or it might need 288GB RAM.

If you have a mix of VMs, you might need 12 physical cores, 288GB RAM and a fast SSD array. Or you might need an Atom with 2GB RAM and a pair of SATA drives. It all depends what you're trying to do at the time.

Your VM host will depend on your client OSes and their needs - you don't really want to be using unsupported OSes, and if a feature needed (direct hardware access for example) isn't present in a certain software then it would be no good for you, but it might be the best bet for someone else.

In short - this probably won't work iin a single thread - the range of possibilities are too large. A collection of different thread discussions linked from a central place might be a better idea.

Regarding Hyper-V - this is free as part of the Dreamspark Server 2008 Standard licence that students can get from MS.
post #5 of 33
You could start by lining out the differences between the major bare metal VM's (XEN, Hyper-V, ESX(i). Also, perhaps a small note about processor virtualisation options?
    
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post #6 of 33
I am using VMWARE ESXi at work on one of my server,and I can say is: AMAZING. I am so unpressed with the performance, and stability. Even with a slower Server and non enterprise level drives. I am getting good performance running 10-15 VMS.
post #7 of 33
Are there any good guides to virtualizing an existing machine's OS directly from the hard drive? I have a machine running XP I'd like to convert to a virtual file to run on a Win 7 x64 OS with Windows VPC.
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post #8 of 33
    
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post #9 of 33
If you want to learn about virtualization, go read the Anandtech guides to it. (Part 1 here)

It is a nice idea, but the field is so large and varied that it is impossible to accumulate a guide to it. If you want to learn about it just reading a 2 minute guide isn't going to cut it; you really have to read up and do your homework.

I've built many an ESXi server, and manage a small (3 blade) farm, and I am always rereading material and reading up on the technology because it consists of quite a few difficult concepts.

Oh an to answer your questions; no, it is not possible to say "will X run good in Y Hypervisor?" because it *should* work given that they are well seperated and the OS doesn't matter. The hypervisor tools installed on the guest are the big variable, not every OS is supported, and some can cause issues (Xen having issues Blue screening guests in one version).

Quote:
There are actually two different approaches to running VMs which I will unofficially dub casual and dedicated.

1. casual: Something like VirtualPC, VMWare Player or VirtualBox that is an installable application on your standard XP/Vista/7/Ubuntu sort of host. These can be used for OS install experiments, running that legacy application that just can't quite run under Windows 7, isolating functions from the primary OS, etc.
2. dedicated: This is a an entire OS/VM technology that dedicates a physical machine to nothing but running virtual guests. This technology includes KVM, Xen, Hyper-V and VMWare ESXi.
"Casual and dedicated" is the class of user or or deployment style, NOT virtualization types or methods. The types would be "Application" which has the on-hardware OS like Server 2008, with VMware Workstation installed on it, and running VM's inside that, like this: (from Anandtech's "Introduction to Virtualization")


A "Bare metal hypervisor" would be using VMware ESX or Citrix Xenserver and looks more like this:


Quote:
Should emphasis be placed on lots of 6Gbps sata HDDs or on a fancy Core i7?
Massive difference. One you have hardly any control over depending on the blade/server/SAN you select, and the other is for desktop CPU's (Core i7 is a desktop CPU and supports 1 socket).
Edited by trueg50 - 3/10/11 at 6:26am
    
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post #10 of 33
Thread Starter 
Made some edits to hopefully make the goal of the thread a little more clear.
 
VM Server
(17 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Ivy Bridge Core i7-3630QM nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s Windows 10 Pro x64 17.3" FHD 16:9 (1920x1080) Battery: Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell) 
Audio
Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 860 Biostar T5 XE Radeon HD 5870 Corsair 16GB  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Western Digital hard drive wd1001fals-00e8b0 Maxtor 300GB I don't need no stinking optical drive Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
HP ZR24w 24'' Samsung SyncMaster 24" logitech wireless k360 Seventeam ST-850ZAF 850W ATX 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Thermaltake V9 Black Edition Logitech G500 Programmable Gaming Mouse FiiO E7 USB DAC and Portable Headphone Amplifier Sennheiser HD555 Professional Headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
 
VM Server
(17 items)
 
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Ivy Bridge Core i7-3630QM nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Hard Drive: Serial-ATA II 3GB/s Windows 10 Pro x64 17.3" FHD 16:9 (1920x1080) Battery: Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell) 
Audio
Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 860 Biostar T5 XE Radeon HD 5870 Corsair 16GB  
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Western Digital hard drive wd1001fals-00e8b0 Maxtor 300GB I don't need no stinking optical drive Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
HP ZR24w 24'' Samsung SyncMaster 24" logitech wireless k360 Seventeam ST-850ZAF 850W ATX 
CaseMouseAudioAudio
Thermaltake V9 Black Edition Logitech G500 Programmable Gaming Mouse FiiO E7 USB DAC and Portable Headphone Amplifier Sennheiser HD555 Professional Headphones 
  hide details  
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