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I just had a cool idea^^ - Page 3

post #21 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Pow View Post
First of all thank you that was a grea explaination
I actually did not know that before.

So a T-Line would have the exact same effect?

I wanted to RMA my still unused EK Supreme HF Full Nickel rev.2 because of that flaking thread...and in return get the Kryos XT because it is the only block in that class.

Only problem is that the Kryos XT is very restrictive and if I put it into a single loop with all the rads and blocks the flowrate will drop beneath 1 GPM which is bad.

So I came up with that idea of mine.
In the future I wanna use 2 blocks cooling my Kepler SLI^^ for now I am running borrowed 580´s on air ...but blockwise I have two GTX 295´s CO-OP that will be going under water with my EK Waterblocks Full Copper blocks.

So I don´t know if the idea is really that bad and won´t be possible to run the Kryos and EK Waterblocks seperately.

I will have to choose another block for a single loop.

That means it must be as little as restrictive as possible and still provide great temps.
Only block I know that does that is EK so unless you have a better idea or recommendation I will have to go with the EK Supreme HF Full Copper which does not fit into my loop cause anything else is Nickel but yeah.
T-line would have the same effect, though my explanation was for an ideal case, and a T versus Rad might have different amounts of restriction, but the result is the same.

If you're concerned I would just go dual loop or dual pump single loop. I'll sell you my dual-parallel top if you want, I'm looking to move to something else.

Also, I'm not sure where you're worried about flowrate, this review seems to say you'll be fine...

Edit: Rad in a bucket of ice is fine, you're just likely to develop condensation at the block-head that can cause problems if the board isn't properly insulated. Freezing a radiator can cause the tubes to burst, but chilling it is fine, people run DICE and acetone/alcohol through rads all the time in sub-ambient chilled loops.
Edited by SaltwaterCooled - 3/12/11 at 11:20am
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post #22 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Pow View Post
That is an incorrect measure to operate a radiator which will certainly dramatically shorten its lifetime.
Oh well, I got good results with it, I was only using a tt bigwater, used it like that for a year with no problems
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post #23 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltwaterCooled View Post
T-line would have the same effect, though my explanation was for an ideal case, and a T versus Rad might have different amounts of restriction, but the result is the same.

If you're concerned I would just go dual loop or dual pump single loop. I'll sell you my dual-parallel top if you want, I'm looking to move to something else.

Also, I'm not sure where you're worried about flowrate, this review seems to say you'll be fine...

Edit: Rad in a bucket of ice is fine, you're just likely to develop condensation at the block-head that can cause problems if the board isn't properly insulated. Freezing a radiator can cause the tubes to burst, but chilling it is fine, people run DICE and acetone/alcohol through rads all the time in sub-ambient chilled loops.
The 1.25 GPM with medium pump setting and 2.68GPM with high pump setting are results taken from the Kryos in a loop in which it is alone.

Once you put other blocks and rads into the loop the flow will decrease dramatically.

Charliehorse555 advised me that my theory was possible if I used a valve to create equal restriction in both the cpu and gpu loop ....that way I could execute my theory.

But because GPU blocks require a good flowrate I will probably not be able to execute my plan.

My only option now is a Dual loop with the Kryos XT.
Or a block that can hold up with the EK Supreme HF in temps and flowrate.
I hope you have some suggestions for such a block (best case Nickel).

Also read the PM please...I hope that you are certain that there have been cases that documented the flaking problem with the EK Supreme HF Full Nickel rev.2

Edit:sry got the PM
Edited by Kung Pow - 3/12/11 at 11:30am
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post #24 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Pow View Post
The 1.25 GPM with medium pump setting and 2.68GPM with high pump setting are results taken from the Kryos in a loop in which it is alone.

Once you put other blocks and rads into the loop the flow will decrease dramatically.

Charliehorse555 advised me that my theory was possible if I used a valve to create equal restriction in both the cpu and gpu loop ....that way I could execute my theory.

But because GPU blocks require a good flowrate I will probably not be able to execute my plan.

My only option now is a Dual loop with the Kryos XT.
Or a block that can hold up with the EK Supreme HF in temps and flowrate.
I hope you have some suggestions.

Also read the PM please...I hope that you are certain that there have been cases that documented the flaking problem with the EK Supreme HF Full Nickel rev.2
Replied to your PM, and the valve idea would work, you just need to balance restriction. You have to remember that the EK GPU blocks aren't very restrictive and that rads are nearly 0 in terms of restriction. You can go dual loop if you want, otherwise a 655 or 355 can handle those components in a single loop without a problem.

Edit: There aren't blocks that can keep up with the HF and the Kryos XT. That's all there is too it. You can sacrifice a few degrees and go for others and never know the difference but it's up to you. There's no secret block hiding somewhere though.
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post #25 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltwaterCooled View Post
Replied to your PM, and the valve idea would work, you just need to balance restriction. You have to remember that the EK GPU blocks aren't very restrictive and that rads are nearly 0 in terms of restriction. You can go dual loop if you want, otherwise a 655 or 355 can handle those components in a single loop without a problem.

Edit: There aren't blocks that can keep up with the HF and the Kryos XT. That's all there is too it. You can sacrifice a few degrees and go for others and never know the difference but it's up to you. There's no secret block hiding somewhere though.
Charliehorse555 once did a calculation for me how much PSI my loop would require to be operated with at least 1 GPM.
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooli...-d5-top-2.html

According to him a radiator requires a lot of PSI so it can´t be 0 restriction like you said right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse55 View Post
That's not how you calculate flow rate. You have to make an estimate of the pressure/flow curve for your components, and then place it onto the pump's power. Since this is very hard, it is best to just check whether you will get over or under a particular flow rate. I will use the flow rate of 1 GPM as it is generally seen as the flow rate where temperature gains begin to become minimal.

Step 1) Find out how powerful the pump is at that flow rate

I looked to Skinnee Lab's testing of the Laing D5 and found this graph for setting 3:



The Laing D5 with the EK X-Top has 2.25 PSI of head pressure at 1.0 GPM. Since you are using two pumps, double the number to 4.5 PSI.

Now, let's add up the total restriction of these components:

Your radiator pressure drop data was also done by Skinnee Labs.

So, we are at 0.38 PSI at 1.0 GPM of flow.

Now for the GPU block. While I don't have any exact data on the EK Waterblocks GTX 295 block, all other reviews of EK GPU blocks have had 0.8-1.0 PSI of drop at 1.0 GPM of flow. Let's take the higher end estimate to be safe. Add that to the total and we are up to 1.38 PSI total drop.

I also have no data for the CPU block, but based on some rough calculations based on a few reviews it should be around 1.6 PSI at 1.0 GPM

Total is now 2.98 PSI.

Add in the 1080 Radiator. I will simply assume it is 3x the restriction of the magicool 360 (as that's what the radiator seems to be, 3 360 radiators in serial) 1.14 PSI drop. Total is now 4.12 PSI. That leaves 0.38 PSI of headroom for fittings and tubing. I'd say with that setup you'd be getting just over 1 GPM.

Now, with the Kyros XT, which has roughly 2.5 PSI of drop at 1 GPM, that figure would be increased to 5.02 PSI. Thus you would be forced to turn the pumps up to setting 4.


Now that we have gotten all of that out of the way, I would suggest that you do NOT get dual MCP655s. With the cost of the dual top and the two pumps it would be a better idea to get a single MCP35X and use the PWM control on the motherboard to keep it nice and quiet.
According to this my MCP 655 would only get away very close with 1 GPM on this loop.


But enough about that matter ...after you people have crushed my idea^^
I have decided to either go for

1.)A single loop as far as there is another block out there that provides the same flowrate and temps as the EK Supreme HF, or I will have to take the Supreme HF Full Copper even though it does not fit into my loop colorwise.

or

2.) I will have to go for a dual loop with the kryos xt.

Hope you can recommend an alternative to the EK Supreme HF that performs on the same level!


thx for your effort so far though

Edit:Here the one that would apply for pump setting 5 which I will have my pump operating on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse55 View Post
No, they don't.


@Kung_Pow

If you already have a 655 you can still use that just fine, you're just going to have to turn it up from setting #3 to setting #5. Here is the graph for setting #5:




As you can see it provides over 4 PSI at 1 GPM. I'd just keep your 655 and up the setting level. Even at setting 5 it's still more than powerful enough.

Edited by Kung Pow - 3/12/11 at 11:41am
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post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Pow View Post
According to him a radiator requires a lot of PSI so it can´t be 0 restriction like you said right?
Edit:Here the one that would apply for pump setting 5 which I will have my pump operating on.
You are so confused here. Charlie said that a single 655 on #5 would do just fine with everything. So what's the question after that?

-Get your Kryos, run the 655 on setting 5, and run everything in series. You won't have any problems.

Radiators don't cause much pressure drop, and there's no requirement for PSI in a radiator as far as I know (I'd guess you were confused or misquoting something he said). 1.15 PSI drop for your enormous rad and 2.5 for your beloved Kryos, (that's more than twice the pressure drop for a single CPU block than for that overkill-enormous rad).
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post #27 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltwaterCooled View Post
You are so confused here. Charlie said that a single 655 on #5 would do just fine with everything. So what's the question after that?

-Get your Kryos, run the 655 on setting 5, and run everything in series. You won't have any problems.

Radiators don't cause much pressure drop, and there's no requirement for PSI in a radiator as far as I know (I'd guess you were confused or misquoting something he said). 1.15 PSI drop for your enormous rad and 2.5 for your beloved Kryos, (that's more than twice the pressure drop for a single CPU block than for that overkill-enormous rad).
No, he said I would be fine with the EK Supreme HF in a full single loop with the MCP 655 on setting 5 since that block is far less restrictive than the Kryos and the pump on 5 already is at its limit to provide 1 GPM you can imagine what the Kryos will do with the flowrate.

Just concentrate on the PSI calculation in the first pic and the PSI calculation of the pump in the second one

And I was talking about the 1080 rad´s restriction.

I am certainly not confused and most certainly not misquoting

Conclusion of Charlie´s post is that in a full loop with the 360 rad,1080 rad,gpu block and EK Supreme HF I would get 1 GPM with my pump on setting 5.

With the Kryos that would be impossible to achieve.

Thanks for your effort but since my idea won´t work I will just have to decide if I either will go for a dual loop with the kryos or single loop with the copper EK .

thx
Edited by Kung Pow - 3/12/11 at 12:00pm
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post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Pow View Post
No, he said I would be fine with the EK Supreme HF in a full single loop with the MCP 655 on setting 5 since that block is far less restrictive than the Kryos and the pump on 5 already is at its limit to provide 1 GPM you can imagine what the Kryos will do with the flowrate.

Just concentrate on the PSI calculation in the first pic and the PSI calculation of the pump in the second one

And I was talking about the 1080 rad´s restriction.

I am certainly not confused and most certainly not misquoting

Conclusion of Charlie´s post is that in a full loop with the 360 rad,1080 rad,gpu block and EK Supreme HF I would get 1 GPM with my pump on setting 5.

With the Kryos that would be impossible to achieve.

Thanks for your effort but since my idea won´t work I will just have to decide if I either will go for a dual loop with the kryos or single loop with the copper EK .

thx
I'm reading the charts and the stuff from charlie, and it looks to me like your loop with the Kryos will provide about 5.0PSI drop, and if I read the D5@5 chart correctly then several of the tops including the EK one, will provide you with that amount. At 1GPM. Feel free to do whatever you like, and by all means PM me if you want to by my dual-top to set up two loops. I think you'll be ok with a single pump, but it's most certainly up to you.
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post #29 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltwaterCooled View Post
I'm reading the charts and the stuff from charlie, and it looks to me like your loop with the Kryos will provide about 5.0PSI drop, and if I read the D5@5 chart correctly then several of the tops including the EK one, will provide you with that amount. At 1GPM. Feel free to do whatever you like, and by all means PM me if you want to by my dual-top to set up two loops. I think you'll be ok with a single pump, but it's most certainly up to you.
thank you very much for your effort

And yes I would be interested in your top please post some pictures.
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post #30 of 36
By 1080 rad i thought he meant 9x120mm! I was surprised by a 600mm rad once
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