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[Various] Japan Nuclear Emergency - Continuous Coverage of Damage and Radiation Risks - Page 210  

post #2091 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
If you mean how long can they stay exposed before cracking open or melting and releasing their contents, I have no idea, but I wouldn't imagine it would take long.
yeah that's what i meant .......also this helicopter water dumping idea was a waste of resources.......what they effectively did is take a water hose to an overheating engine with a broken waterpump
    
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post #2092 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
Why is it laughable to be prepared? It's very unlikely that we will see radiation in the US from anything happening in Japan, but it's not impossible.
Because the odds of you getting in a car crash are orders of magnitude larger than any amount of fallout coming to the US and being that significant.

REMEMBER- Iodine-131, what iodide tabs are for has a half life of about a week. Any release of iodine from Japan would first be MASSIVELY diluted from travelling 1/2way around the world....and even assuming some did-by the time it got here it would probably already have gone through a 1/2 life...Heck, any I-131 at the reactors already nearly gone through 1 half life by now anyway. I might also add that to do ANY good whatsoever, regular doses of iodide are needed daily.

Buying iodide tabs in the US is not "being prepared". It is the stereotypical US uninformed, uneducated, fear-based knee-jerk reaction that people have to something they don't understand. That "contractors" and corporations love for making a quick buck off people.
Edited by Skripka - 3/16/11 at 7:48pm
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post #2093 of 2836
That panoramic pic is just wow...
post #2094 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by damric View Post
This is where my knowledge is extremely limited because my ship used the same fuel plates for 25 years before needing a refueling. From the quick research I did, storage of spent fuel varies from plant to plant. So, I really have no idea what containment they use in these plants for this spent fuel. What I can tell you is that spent fuel IS radioactive, and does have some decay heat. This decay heat becomes less significant with age. When they decay enough that they are not generating a significant amount of heat, they get encased in cement, and apparently stored on site. Fuel plates are also loaded with poisons (they help shape neutron flux), and it doesn't pose any concern of causing a fission chain reaction due to the totally mixed bag of decay products. But while it decays, it emits radiation, so I wouldn't try eating one, or keeping it in your house.

The last statement about some partially spent fuel...that could be bad. Surely they have it stored in proper containment. They wouldn't keep it in water alone, as water is the catalyst for thermal fission.
Fair enough, thank you for your thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
Nuclear decay is happening irrespective of temperature.

If you mean an atomic explosion, that's just not possible with the material in the fuel.
No, not necessarily an explosion. Just the same fission rocess it undergoes during normal use in the reactor, but now in a relatively unprotected or shielded location, without any means of normal control; what is the end result? Just becoming a super hot molten puddle radiating energy until it is fully decayed or can it elevate to any more critial point beyond that?
post #2095 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digigami View Post
Fair enough, thank you for your thoughts.



No, not necessarily an explosion. Just the same process it undergoes during normal use in the reactor, but now in a relatively unprotected or shielded location, without any means of normal control; what is the end result? Just becoming a super hot molten puddle radiating energy forever or can it elevate to any more critial point beyond that?
It could reach criticality, there's a *chance*. That depends on the density of the fuel. I won't say it is impossible-because 2 weeks ago, no one seriously entertained the idea of 4 relatively modern reactors all suffering complete coolant pump failure and partial melt.

In the dungeons of Chernobyl beneath the Nr4 reactor, robots went and fount puddles of molten concrete/fuel/moderator/steel that looked like like lava flows.
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post #2096 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
It could reach criticality, there's a *chance*. That depends on the density of the fuel. I won't say it is impossible-because 2 weeks ago, no one seriously entertained the idea of 4 relatively modern reactors all suffering complete coolant pump failure and partial melt.

In the dungeons of Chernobyl beneath the Nr4 reactor, robots went and fount puddles of molten concrete/fuel/moderator/steel that looked like like lava flows.
I could be mistaken, but Chernobyl utilized enriched uranium, whereas these do not. Which is why I'm still uncertain of what an uncontrolled reaction would look like or do.

Edit - Perhaps I do have that backwards?

Quote:
U.S. REACTORS versus CHERNOBYL-TYPE REACTORS1



From the foregoing discussion, we see that two of the principal options for reactor design are:
  1. Uranium fuel enriched to 3% in U-235 surrounded by water moderator; this is the option used in all U.S. power reactors.
  2. Natural (or slightly enriched) uranium surrounded by graphite moderator; this is the option used in Chernobyl-type reactors.
http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/chapter7.html
Edited by Digigami - 3/16/11 at 8:31pm
post #2097 of 2836
pretty sure chernobyl used u-238 as the primary fuel while these are using u-235... u-238 is the primary fuel for nuclear bombs i think.
post #2098 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digigami View Post
Just the same fission rocess it undergoes during normal use in the reactor, but now in a relatively unprotected or shielded location, without any means of normal control; what is the end result? Just becoming a super hot molten puddle radiating energy until it is fully decayed or can it elevate to any more critial point beyond that?
It could potentially heat up to the point it melts into the ground and contaminates the soil/water, or it could boil off into a cloud of radioactive gas/particles, or both.

An actual criticality incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticality_accident) is extremely unlikely and a nuclear detonation is as impossible as impossible gets.

However, boiling reactor fuel and contaminated waste vaporising into the air is still really bad, obviously.
Edited by Blameless - 3/16/11 at 8:25pm
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post #2099 of 2836
TEPCO just said during their press conference that the spent fuel pool at unit 4 DOES have water, but they don't know how much and thus don't know how much fuel is exposed if it is.
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post #2100 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by arson2121 View Post
pretty sure chernobyl used u-238 as the primary fuel while these are using u-235... u-238 is the primary fuel for nuclear bombs i think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digigami View Post
I could be mistaken, but Chernobyl utilized enriched uranium, whereas these do not. Which is why I'm still uncertain of what an uncontrolled reaction would look like or do.
Chernobyl used low enrinched Uranium...although it could also use natural Uranium IIRC.

These critters use MOX....which is a handy way of getting rid of excess weapons grade material.
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