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[Various] Japan Nuclear Emergency - Continuous Coverage of Damage and Radiation Risks - Page 266  

post #2651 of 2836
Back on topic.

There is almost no way to continue this conversation now without it becoming politically charged because we have a serious issue... Japan is telling a completely different story about the disaster than the U.S or TEPCO.

Japan is saying that the situation is out of control. Now there is talk of nuclear reactions taking place outside the reactors containment vessel.

May 17: There have been nuclear explosions” — “Ongoing nuclear reaction taking place now” http://enenews.com/there-have-been-n...lace-now-video

Here are some transcripts for you to read at your delight!

Quote:
0:45 Raging radioactive inferno taking place inside the reactor… we believe probably outside the reactor
1:00 The real situation is in fact far worse because there have been nuclear explosions we now know
2:15 We know that it is still fissioning… ongoing nuclear reaction taking place now… it is still going on
3:15 It’s very hard to know how you could take control of the situation… the situation is essentially out of control
Melted fuel in Reactor No. 3 appears to have burned through pressure vessel — Loaded with rods containing plutonium http://enenews.com/melted-fuel-react...ressure-vessel

Ok, now read what the United states Government thinks of the situation.

Report: Meltdown confirmation led Japan officials to begin evacuating on Tuesday — As U.S. nuclear agency stops monitoring Fukushima ‘because the situation had improved’ http://enenews.com/report-meltdown-c...ation-improved

Quote:
The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission said on Monday that its 24-hour operations center had stopped monitoring the nuclear reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant because the situation there had improved. “The conditions at the Japanese reactors are slowly stabilizing,” said William Borchardt, the agency’s chief staff official. “[...] conditions have continued to improve [...]“
EPA shut down Fukushima radiation monitoring after finding high levels of radiation in drinking water http://enenews.com/watchdog-inexplic...drinking-water

Quote:
With the Japanese nuclear situation still out of control and expected to continue that way for months and with elevated radioactivity continuing to show up in the U.S., it is inexplicable that EPA would shut down its Fukushima radiation monitoring effort,”

Edited by aweir - 5/17/11 at 11:49pm
post #2652 of 2836
In what way do "isotopic ratios" prove there were any "nuclear explosions"? More importantly, why are you ONLY referencing that one website? Because it looks like you're only doing it to help promote the same fear that they are.
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post #2653 of 2836
Do you have any other sites to contribute to the discussion??

Why don't you register an account and ask over there on energy news? I can't think of a more fitting name of a site. Maybe I should be reading the Christian Science Monitor?
post #2654 of 2836
That's not an answer to my question.
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post #2655 of 2836
nuclear explosions seem a bit far fetched but reactions would make sense since, if the fuel were melted, there would be no control rods, would there?
post #2656 of 2836
Can't believe that people are still making this out to be a huge ordeal when it really isn't.

There is no escaping overhyping, whether an issue is in the news or not. If it is in the news sources are covering something up and if it isn't then they are intentionally being quiet! There is no pleasing some people!

I am very open for being changing my mind given sufficient quantity and authority of evidence but there is nothing I have seen on this forum or any other that has instill any thought of error.

Eddie.
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post #2657 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post
That's not an answer to my question.
Well I'm not nuclear scientist, I'm just the messenger so I wouldn't really know the answer to the question. It seems no other news outlet is covering it anymore because everyone's attention is focused on Libya and the U.S media is making it seem like its all over. www.bbc.co.uk isn't even covering it anymore.

doesn't that seem strange to anyone??

AFAIK this is the only place to get updates and they get THEIR information from interviews with nuclear experts. http://enenews.com/
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
Edited by aweir - 5/18/11 at 11:05am
post #2658 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post
doesn't that seem strange to anyone??
Not at all, unfortunately.

Nuclear disaster aint sellin this month.
    
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post #2659 of 2836
MIT. Atmosphere Above Japan Heated Rapidly Before M9 Earthquake

http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/26773/
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post #2660 of 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post
In what way do "isotopic ratios" prove there were any "nuclear explosions"? More importantly, why are you ONLY referencing that one website? Because it looks like you're only doing it to help promote the same fear that they are.
In the same way you can figure out what kind of explosive was used in a bomb after it went off.

The reactors are currently pouring out certain isotopes of iodine, those isotopes are created when exposed to irradiated by fuel rods. But we have also detected other isotopes, those isotopes could have only been created during a nuclear fission reaction.

Its possible that those fission isotopes were created during the plant's operation but have only been released due to the catastrophic events. But that is not very likely at all.

And it is currently well known that scientists have found amounts of fission reaction isotopes. If you see black smoke on the horizon you assume that there is a fire, even though you cannot see the fire you know that's the only cause.

Same thing here, scientists found those isotopes. Those certain isotopes can only be the resultant of a nuclear fission reaction, and a recent one too. Hence, it is fair to say there has been an uncontrolled very small scale nuclear fission reaction in reactor 4 or reactor 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semyon View Post
nuclear explosions seem a bit far fetched but reactions would make sense since, if the fuel were melted, there would be no control rods, would there?
Semyon, the concept behind a nuclear reaction is that of splitting uranium to release three or four more neutrons. But that's in theory. In a nuclear bomb you need two or more of those neutrons to hit other atoms. When the neutrons released from a bomb create more then one reaction that is called being "super critical". It is when the reaction rate is increasing.

Sub critical is when the average number of reactions is less then one. That means that the reaction rate is steadily decreasing. This is called being "sub critical".

Critical is when it is a perfect 1:1 ratio, but it is impossible to hit and maintain it. The control rods capture neutrons from the reaction, they are constantly moved in and out of the reactor to oscillate between super critical and sub critical so that it averages to just critical.

The overrall shape of the uranium mass is important to. The ideal shape for super criticality is a sphere because then very few neutrons are wasted, but it doesn't have to be a sphere, just any large solid chunk of uranium will do.

The ideal shape for sub criticality is a thin sheet where most of the neutrons escape.

The ideal shape for criticality is cylindrical like the rods in a reactor.

Now that that's out of the way here is the problem. In order to scram a reactor all of the rods must be lowered all the way (or in this sort of reactor they are actually pushed upwards from the bottom). The rods are attached to motors, and between the motor and the rod is a very powerful spring. That way even if you lose electrical power the spring can still push the rod into the reactor easily. It takes maybe four minutes to SCRAM and shut down a reactor.

Here is the scary bit. The nuclear fission reactions seem to have come out of reactor number 1. Number one underwent a supposedly succesful SCRAM sequence. The nuclear control rods were completely inserted into the reactor forcing it to go completely sub critical.

If there was a nuclear fission reaction that means that something in the reactor happened that not only managed to eliminate the ability of several control rods to control the reaction, but to actually jumpstart the nuclear reactor even for a short time.

This is a supreme, incredible hazard.

The biggest danger is because portions of the fuel rods have melted. If those molten pieces start to pool at the bottom of the reactor and if they are in an area where the control rods are unable to control the reaction then it is very possible that they can form a super critical mass.

Once a super critical mass of nuclear material has been created it is extremely easy to set off a reaction. Just a stray set of neutrons from the environment can set if off. One second its just sitting there, the next...Hiroshima.

That is why in a nuclear bomb the nuclear material is stored in such a way that it is sub critical. In the tall boy bomb the uranium was stored in two seperate sub critical chunks and the chunks and once they came together they detonated. In the plutonium bomb the plutonium was a hollowed out sub critical sphere, to make it supercritical shaped charges compressed it into a small enough sphere so that it hit super criticality.

If enough nuclear material melts into a pile in the reactor then in theory it can form a super critical mass. Once a few neutrons hit it then it will set it off, and considering that those radioactive uranium fuel rods that are still intact are literally pouring out loads of neutrons means that it will not take very long (maybe less then a few seconds) between when that pile becomes super critical and when it gets set off. The size of the pile necessary to become super critical depends on the fuel quality, the shape of the reactor, the temperature, and other factors. But since it is only nuclear reactor quality fuel (which is less then that of bomb quality) it would be smaller then a nuclear bomb.

That still means several kilotons of destructive power. What's worse is that the impromptu bomb would literally be surrounded by radioactive material, tons and tons of extremely radioactive uranium either in the other reactors or in the spent fuel pools.

I'm no expert. But the radioactive fall out would be devestating. This would probably irradiate the island of Japan so severely it would necessitate a total evacuation of the island as well as north and south korea, the east coastal areas of China, and the east coastal areas of Russia. As well as serious irradiation in the Phillipines and Pacific islands including Hawaii. Due to the jet stream it would have some effects on the continental United States, Canada, and Central America.

This is a worst case scenario. But it is the implication of an unsuccesful SCRAM and deteriorating control of the nuclear reactor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
Not at all, unfortunately.

Nuclear disaster aint sellin this month.
There was an uncontrolled nuclear reaction happening in a reactor which was succesfully SCRAMed and shut down.

That's like shutting down your computer desktop yet your still able to play video games off of a supposedly turned off computer.

The tremendous fear is that if there was a very tiny uncontrolled nuclear fission reaction then there could very easily be a very large uncontrolled nuclear fission explosion. Especially if the rods start melting into a gigantic super critical mass at the bottom of the reactor.

It is possible that reactor 1 could literally be turning into a nuclear explosion fueled dirty bomb.

A dirty bomb is radioactive material in a jacket around a conventional bomb, the bomb scatters the material over a large radius and it can be deadly to anyone within block and extremely unhealthy to anyone within several blocks. Imagine what happens if rather then maybe a few pounds of radioactive material that's being spread its several tons of the stuff. And a lot of it is expended uranium which is extremely radioactive. Then imagine that the conventional bomb is replaced with a low yield nuclear fission device.

That's a disaster that makes Katrina, Chernobyl, 3 Mile island, and the earthquake itself look like jokes.

This is the worst case scenario. Somehow the SCRAM sequence failed in at least one small area of the reactor which is in and of itself scary as all hell. On a scale of one to ten, this is an eleven. If somehow the SCRAM failed or that some control rods were at least somewhat damaged in an area towards the bottom that is significantly large enough for a supercritical mass of uranium to build up then that means there will be a nuclear explosion.

At this point in time, a nuclear melt down of reactor 1 is one of the better case scenarios. A total nuclear explosion of reactor 1 releasing tons of extremely radioactive radioactive fuel across the planet is without a doubt THE worst case scenario.
    
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