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[BitTech] Farewell to DirectX? - Page 10

post #91 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Microsoft absolutely does not want to kill PC gaming...

Why are many users here still using Windows?
People may just not want to change or learn another operating system for one, others could be using it in a business environment. I'm sure not every single person is using Windows for games.

Microsoft hasn't put an amazing effort into flourishing the gaming line either. They only promise and that's enough to keep the community intact for now.
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post #92 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxthunder View Post
I wouldn't mind going back to a DOS type age where you just booted the PC to a prompt, inserted the game disc and typed a command to run a game. No OS needed. Of course I guess either Nvidia or ati would need to go away to make the dev's wishes come true.
DOS was the OS.
    
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post #93 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcarl View Post
stop making gorram ports
make a dx11 only pc game and it will probably wipe the floor with anything to date
And wouldn't sale enough copies to even cover the expenses it took to make. I'm being extremely conservative, but let's say 10% of people have a DX11 card(probably more like 5-7% as of now), no way a game dev would be stupid enough to make a game that alienated 90%+ of its potential customer base, no matter how great it looked.
post #94 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kand View Post
Keyword. Time-Consuming. Sounds like laziness to me. =P
Time = Money
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post #95 of 107
I've been coding using Win32 for about a year, and have only recently started getting into Direct3D, but I think that working hands on with hardware is a bad idea. If you ask developers to develop for specific platforms of hardware, even though they could work at a low level, it wouldn't be time efficient. Game development cycles would take forever. APIs have the advantage of 'hiding' lots of low level discrepancies from the programmer (though they can be confusing to learn if you're used to one over another). For example, sure it could be cool to work with the data within my window structure individually instead of having to call functions to modify the data, but this would also require understanding the current memory management model for the OS and would take so much more time. Implementation at the software level without asking a coder to go too far into things they may or may not fully understand is generally safer, too.

I recognize though that an API like Direct3D is really appealing to amateur graphics coders, because by doing away with possibly time intensive ventures in hardware architecture and creating a hardware abstraction, a C++ programmer in this case could start writing game code within a few months of practice, instead of years. I don't doubt that senior graphics coders who have been in the business for 15+ years would like to see some model of hardware-specific interfaces implemented by hardware vendors, but I don't think one can just simply rule out an interface like Direct3D completely either because of ease of use considerations.
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post #96 of 107
These issues will fade away as GPUs become GPGPUs. Once this happens there will be ways to run code on lower levels and DirectX might just disappear but most likely it will be renamed and be ran on lower levels. MS wouldnt want to give up the gaming market share.
post #97 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Microsoft absolutely does not want to kill PC gaming...

Why are many users here still using Windows?
cause they want to game?

nice find and good read...

i think even with all the advantages of ditching 3d API, all the disadvantages quickly start to add up, and eventually game specific API's would start rolling out, or developer specific...then it would just be cases of developers loosing time and money reinventing the wheel...

i remember back in the day when there wasn't direct3d (opengl was available, but wasn't used often.) i had the right 2d card, but i had the wrong 3d card, and the game just absolutely ran horrible (i don't remember the title, i just remember being completely burned by the exp, that it was a few years before i returned to pc gaming, i spent most of my time on the consoles )

i'll think i'll live with the inherent overhead and downfalls of a API, than being locked to a certain gpu's for certain games...
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post #98 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by transhour View Post
cause they want to game?

nice find and good read...

i think even with all the advantages of ditching 3d API, all the disadvantages quickly start to add up, and eventually game specific API's would start rolling out, or developer specific...then it would just be cases of developers loosing time and money reinventing the wheel...

i remember back in the day when there wasn't direct3d (opengl was available, but wasn't used often.) i had the right 2d card, but i had the wrong 3d card, and the game just absolutely ran horrible (i don't remember the title, i just remember being completely burned by the exp, that it was a few years before i returned to pc gaming, i spent most of my time on the consoles )

i'll think i'll live with the inherent overhead and downfalls of a API, than being locked to a certain gpu's for certain games...
You have it exactly right. Developers would have to reinvent the wheel... What would be the point of that? Sure games would look and run better, but think about how much time and money that would waste... Games would take so much longer to develop, it just wouldn't be worth it... Plus, games would have to then cost more as well, as developers wouldn't be able to create as many games, and thus would have to charge more in order to make up for lost revenue and time.

It would be preferential for developers to use OpenGL rather than DirectX, however, DirectX is more prevalent in the market, and there is a stronger basis in it. Plus, due to the fact that DirectX has a primary developer (Microsoft), vs being open source (and thus not having a primary developer), there is stronger support for them to continue to develop with the DirectX platform.
     
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post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Microsoft absolutely does not want to kill PC gaming...

Why are many users here still using Windows?
The answer, of course, is DirectX.

Could it be better? Sure. I'm sure every game dev considers DirectX a necessary evil since there are so many variations in hardware configuration. I think the point here is that performance could be better if there could just be an agreed upon hardware standard; and we all know that's not going to happen.

Edit:
And many thanks to DuckieHo, for not just sharing news, but educating some of us who were less familiar with APIs and terms associated with programming. Nice job showing the way by example.
Edited by zooterboy - 3/20/11 at 1:06am
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Finally...
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post #100 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxicrimsonixx View Post
You have it exactly right. Developers would have to reinvent the wheel... What would be the point of that? Sure games would look and run better, but think about how much time and money that would waste... Games would take so much longer to develop, it just wouldn't be worth it... Plus, games would have to then cost more as well, as developers wouldn't be able to create as many games, and thus would have to charge more in order to make up for lost revenue and time.

It would be preferential for developers to use OpenGL rather than DirectX, however, DirectX is more prevalent in the market, and there is a stronger basis in it. Plus, due to the fact that DirectX has a primary developer (Microsoft), vs being open source (and thus not having a primary developer), there is stronger support for them to continue to develop with the DirectX platform.
off-topic:

the "Open" in OpenGL, doesn't denote "Open Source", its meant for Open Standard...OpenGL proceeds the Open Source movement by quite a few years...if you want to know more, check out a "OpenGL" history or timeline site...it explains why it is called OpenGL, how it came to be, and why it was even used in game Development at first.

on-topic:

I do agree that all the 3d api's could use a little chlorine

we see the same thing happen in other software and hardware as well. where something wasn't designed or even imagined to be used for 25 years, or even 10 years...you get a lot of bloat, and escalation, the gpu's are more power, with radically different hardware than what was available when 3d api's were original created, instead of wiping the slate clean (which more than likely destroyed any and all backwards compatibility) they just kept adding and adding and adding, eventually you have this immensely powerful piece of hardware, running this extremely bloated software, that runs no faster or better, than what was release 10 years prior (a poor example or exeggerated example, but hey its 3 am )

its kinda like arm vs x86 atm...we have 25 years of software base designed and compiled for the x86 instruction set...but arm is faster, more energy efficient and cheaper, where x86 is seriously bloated, slow, and more than likely a complete mess with all the "modernization" done to it over the last what, 30 years?...why hasn't the market switched? it simply can't switch...it would take a lot of money, and time to redesign our software, drivers, OS's and then recompile them for the arm architecture, not only that, it would also be very costly to support to branches, a x86 and a arm version of the same software...i guess it kin to "crappy console port" scenario...one version would suffer...and it wouldn't always be the "better" one either...

One day a brilliant man would come along, and hit the reset button on our entire technology for good...hopefully it will be the day affordable quantum computing is available
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