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post #7541 of 10701
Quote:
Originally Posted by shad0wfax View Post

Oh ouch. It's good to hear that your normal motherboard is fine. Do you think that you might have overloaded or overheated something on the motherboard or was it a manufacturing defect?

I still think that an ultra-high LLC at anything less than 4.9 GHz is indicative of a poorly optimized OC (or possibly of a motherboard with very weak VRM phases).

I didn't mention that in my above posts, because most enthusiasts get motherboards with high quality VRMs (like our asus boards). But even reputable companies can sometimes have a product ship with weak components.

It was defective, the day I got my i5 it randomly shut down without any overclocking at all, then it did it again today under no load.

Two of my cores are at 5.0, one is at 4.9, and the other is at 4.8, so Ultra High LLC might be justified, but I am going to try High LLC overnight, and maybe 1.395v.
post #7542 of 10701
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryuji View Post


if you can find a figure showing the maximum default VID intel would acceptably use as a range, i usually use the maximum factory voltage as that is what intels feels is there 'max rated', so i was apparently off by 0.01 in my ref voltage, oopps So thats 1.512 for tip top max and 1.449 for safe water and 1.386 safe air. Of course going over a bit if your temps are good and you dont mind playing the risk game ever so slightly is fine :thumb: i still personally see +20% as a hard wall if you want your cpu or mobo to last

 

Intel whitesheets show a maximum design VID of 1.520 on the K sku Sandy Bridge micro-architecture CPUs.

 

But that's VID, not Vcore.

 

Each chip will have a different VID at idle and at load, as you mentioned in the part of your quote that I cut out. Some "golden" chips will sit at 5.4 GHz and 1.45 Vcore at a 1.50 VID. Others will be at 1.52 VID at 4.9 GHz and simply won't operate more reliably above that.

 

Intel never states an actual maximum Vcore anywhere in their documentation. (for fairly obvious reasons, I'm guessing) but they do give the maximum VID. Even TJMax can vary some from CPU to CPU. My CPUs TJMax is 98C and others is 95C.

 

*shrug*

 

EDIT: And my weak attempt to try to get back on topic:

 

What is important to us, in this thread, is that we use our own limits for Vcore and Temperature, as well as the VID values as an indication of target Vcores so that we can pursue stability on terms that are acceptable to us and to our own opinion of what our warranties will handle. (or if we even care about warranties)

 

VID, Vcore, Vdroop, LLC, Offset, and Turbo Voltage are all related.


Edited by shad0wfax - 2/24/12 at 6:09pm
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post #7543 of 10701

 And my weak attempt to try to get back on topic:

 

What is important to us, in this thread, is that we use our own limits for Vcore and Temperature, as well as the VID values as an indication of target Vcores so that we can pursue stability on terms that are acceptable to us and to our own opinion of what our warranties will handle. (or if we even care about warranties)

 

VID, Vcore, Vdroop, LLC, Offset, and Turbo Voltage are all related.

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post #7544 of 10701
Quote:
Originally Posted by shad0wfax View Post

 And my weak attempt to try to get back on topic:

What is important to us, in this thread, is that we use our own limits for Vcore and Temperature, as well as the VID values as an indication of target Vcores so that we can pursue stability on terms that are acceptable to us and to our own opinion of what our warranties will handle. (or if we even care about warranties)

VID, Vcore, Vdroop, LLC, Offset, and Turbo Voltage are all related.
You misunderstood what i was trying to say, i was investigating the maximum stock frequency voltage, not the mobo scaling based on 'bins' or the max vcore/VID, thats never given for as you said obvious reasons, especially as electromigration happens at any vcore, your just playing a game of 'well, do i want it to last intel specified 20 years average, or 2 or 3 years'

Used to be that intels processor finder would tell you this information, showing the full range of *default* voltages. i'd pluck the highest default for my calculations. seems like intel withholds this information now too rolleyes.gif

this post is more so for pointing towards the asus rep's information on there mobo's ill pull the link if cross-forum is frowned upon(took me a bit to find the thread)
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1578110&highlight=vrm

The asus rep's did a rather lengthy writeup on that forum

Edited for clarity
Edited by ryuji - 2/24/12 at 6:42pm
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post #7545 of 10701
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryuji View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by shad0wfax View Post

 And my weak attempt to try to get back on topic:

What is important to us, in this thread, is that we use our own limits for Vcore and Temperature, as well as the VID values as an indication of target Vcores so that we can pursue stability on terms that are acceptable to us and to our own opinion of what our warranties will handle. (or if we even care about warranties)

VID, Vcore, Vdroop, LLC, Offset, and Turbo Voltage are all related.
I was finding the default core, not the max vcore/VID, thats never given for as you said obvious reasons, especially as electromigration happens at any vcore, your just playing a game of 'well, do i want it to last intel specified 20 years average, or 2 or 3 years'

this post is more so for pointing towards the asus rep's information on there mobo's ill pull the link if cross-forum is frowned upon(took me a bit to find the thread)
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1578110&highlight=vrm

The asus rep's did a rather lengthy writeup on that forum


 

Cross-linking to that post is perfectly acceptable as far as I know. I've seen it linked quite often here.

 

overclock.net, specifically this thread, the P67/Z68 owners thread, and the ocn official sandy overclock thread were my three OCN sources of information that helped my overclock. That [H]ardOCP thread where the Asus tech rep posted that I referred to (and that you linked) was another major source of information for my overclock.

 

If not for those four threads (3 here and one there at [H]) I'd not be enjoying my super-stable rig as I am now!

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post #7546 of 10701
Alright here's my final submission. I decided to stop it at 20 hours when all 4 workers finished the 3584K test. It was nice to see 0 warnings, 0 errors at the end! Quite pleased! drum.gif
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post #7547 of 10701
nm
Edited by nismofreak - 2/24/12 at 8:25pm
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post #7548 of 10701
Quote:
Originally Posted by shad0wfax View Post


I can't answer any questions about Intel warranties but I personally believe that your voltages and temperatures are just fine for 24/7 use. I set my personal limit at 1.416 Vcore and 80C as a maximum. I can run 4.9 GHz on that, or maybe 5.0 GHz if I get lucky. I'm actually down at 1.336 Vcore and 4.7 GHz and now that I case-modded, my temperatures are < 60C just like yours. I think that you're perfectly fine there and that you should feel confident at 4.8 GHz.

Can you clarify a couple points for me? Very noob still when it comes to OC'ing. What do you mean case-modded? Means you modified the parameters of your case in terms of cabling / airflow, or you changed the fan settings in the BIOS, both?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shad0wfax View Post


Offset Voltage, Additional Turbo Voltage, and LLC are all related. Changing one of the values can have an impact on the way the other values behave. It's best to adjust one value at a time and experiment with your system, starting with small values and working your way up in small increments.

In my opinion, use the minimum amount of offset voltage to keep idle voltage at your preferred target voltage for 1.6 GHz. (My system likes 0.920 Vcore there) and then use the minimum amount of additional turbo voltage to keep your Vcore above BSOD levels at maximum load Vdroop conditions. Use the minimum amount of LLC possible to prevent you from needing to supply too much turbo voltage to combat Vdroop. Use LLC as a buffer to help minimize voltage overshoot during load transients on and off of 100% load conditions.

Excellent explaination, thanks. I'll even use your spoiler info for re-investigating my LLC versus turbo settings. Makes complete sense.

One thing I wasn't sure of however, is how do you determine what your target voltage is for 1.6GHz? I saw posts (maybe they were old or older mobos?) that said if you are below 1.000V for ASRock mobos, which is my brand, causes higher risk for BSODs. Currently Vcore at 1.6GHz is like 0.96V.

Thanks much!
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post #7549 of 10701
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ped5 View Post

Excellent explaination, thanks. I'll even use your spoiler info for re-investigating my LLC versus turbo settings. Makes complete sense.

One thing I wasn't sure of however, is how do you determine what your target voltage is for 1.6GHz? I saw posts (maybe they were old or older mobos?) that said if you are below 1.000V for ASRock mobos, which is my brand, causes higher risk for BSODs. Currently Vcore at 1.6GHz is like 0.96V.

Thanks much!

Trial and error I guess, reduce the either the core voltage and increase the Additional Turbo voltage or increase LLC setting which will ultimately require you to use less voltage (be lower during idle but the same for what you require under load for stability).

If it's running fine with 0.96v then that's fine, if you wish to lower it further and keep your load voltage the same, try increasing the LLC setting and reducing the offset or core voltage.

EDIT:

Will update the spreadsheet tonight, thank you all for your patience. thumb.gif
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post #7550 of 10701
messing wih pll voltage more.
got it dropped to 1.450v
have the strangest thing happen:
boot into windows fine. click prime open no prob. set it to run custom no problem.
click start......what ? it starts but cpu-z sees no jump in core. stays at 1600. real temp shows 75% or less load, never more than 79% usually a lot less than 50%.
BUT, i cant do squat anywhere in real time clicks because it acts like im under 100% load. ie, takes forever for firefox, pictures, server folders to open
i stop p95. asking myself, what the hail ? reenter custom settings, click start, 100% load at 4500. ran both customs for 45mins+ passed. passed blend for 11.5 hours+
i dropped 2-4* across my cores. probably more because its a bit warm in the room right now. ran ibt max mem avail. and highest was 68*

so i dont understand the no load but acting fully loaded thing. i need to restart p95 for it to actually work.
i am doing this to lower temps and vcore hoping i can hit 5ghz at less than 1.504v and under 80* which is what i needed/got when this was an all new setup.


as im typing this, i also see the refresh icon in firefox blinking off n on.

im wondering if its worth the hassle and brainache
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