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[Geek] PS3 running v3.60 firmware gets jailbroken - Page 10  

post #91 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Peen View Post
"PS3 is now unhackable".

Sorry Sony, what was that?
I don't recall Sony making that statement after the patch. If my memory serves me correctly, a hacker for the homebrew community is the one that said that.

Sorry E-Peen, what was that?
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post #92 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
I don't recall Sony making that statement after the patch. If my memory serves me correctly, a hacker for the homebrew community is the one that said that.

Sorry E-Peen, what was that?
Go look in the news sections, I can't find it.

Profit?
post #93 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzyness View Post
Sir would you like some Herp with that Derp?

What if that hobbying just so happens to be illegal? Say I go and scam people of their credit cards on the side to my job to make more money, it is just a hobby! Also illegal... Doesn't make it right.
If you want to make the term "hobbying" so general that everything is illegal - then welcome to Iran.

What I am saying is that hobbying and hardware hacking do absolutely no harm to anyone else - just like overclocking a processor does no harm to anyone else. There is no law on the books that prohibits customing. People are free to do whatever to the stuff they have purchased, so long as it does no harm to others. You can buy furniture from Ikea and paint it, or put different upholstry on it - Ikea isn't suing you. You can buy a computer with Windows on it, and mod it by putting on Chrome, or changing themes, or putting AirCrack on it - no one is suing, and none of it is illegal.

But he have a case where a corporate had decided to start suing people over their customing. And it is not only that - it's not just the hobbyists that are actually doing the mods that are getting into this fake trouble, but people who looked at stuff on YouTube, or read about stuff on a blog, or whatever. The corporate has also decided to unilaterally withdraw a feature that people paid for, because of some un substantiated link between some mods to that of the vague notion of "piracy" or "cheating".

The main vector of piracy isn't some homebrew mod performed by a tiny handful of people - it is giant factories in many countries that crank this stuff out by the thousands, quite often with authentic looking packaging. These folks are not jailbreaking anything, they aren't hobbying with OtherOS - they are pressing out DVD and CD copies of games in the thousands, and selling those products for real cash.

Cheating isn't a function of OtherOS, or unlocked features, but rather, the weakness of PSN and the lack of any kind of safeguards. It isn't a firnware problem, but rather, that PSN is weak and for some reason, the corporates feel that they do not need to fix their problems - but rather, feel that they should try to sue hobbyists who did "illegal" things, like reading a forum, or watching a video on YouTube, or even googled PS3 Mods.

If jailbreaking a PS3, to unlock features that are built in, to use those features for purposes that are not illegal or harmful to others - then we might as well write off places like OCN, because there is a bunch of "illegal" going on with all of the hobbying and mods that go on - like overclocking, which directly harms corporate profits because people can use a cheaper processor or components to take the place of faster, more expensive products that companies offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
Evan, you never have any idea what you are talking about.
That is your incorrect opinion that remains entirely unsubstantiated.

You show your cards, thinking that modding a PS3 is somehow "illegal", while you yourself obviously "break the law", since your own sig system is obviously not pure stock. I doubt that you run your system with all "pure" software, 100% legitmate and compliant to the will of the corporates. If you run Firefox or Chrome - you are "breaking the law", running something that is aftermarket, taking away profits that MS should be making. Oh, not using Live or Hotmail, same thing - you ar e "breaking the law". And why do you do such things? Obviously to make your system "usable" by customing and modding - things that you continusally declare to be "illegal" and "against EULAs" and such nonsense.

Quote:
The jailbreak is to do other things not natively supported (anymore), which any other console doesn't natively support.
Windows does not natively support Citrix - it is aftermarket, detracts from the profits MS could make with Live - but still, no lawsuits over that. If something isn't natively supported, then people are entirely free to create whatever they want to do the job they want. Just because a PS3 is a "console" doesn't make it any different from any other machine. People mod machines all of the time, major, extensive mods - but only Sony is suing people for doing such things as viewing videos on YouTube, or prosecuting people that read blogs and forums that contain nothing illegal.

It is yet another thing for Sony to have sold systems with a given feature, that people purchased - and then bricked that feature that people purchased with an underhanded update. It would be like MS bricking people who use OpenOffice because that takes away from the money they could make selling Office.

Quote:
being ridiculously persistent with opinionated arguments that hold no support to any degree.
Except for the fact that the bulk of the people who participate in this thread do not hold your opinion, and think Sony has clearly overstepped their rights, and have resorted to underhanded, and illegal, ways and means, by distributing an "update" that is no different from a trojan horse, that resulted in a purchased feature being switched off; and then going on some kind of rampage prosecuting hobbyists who did nothing illegal, did not sell codes for profit, did not sell a cloned system to defer from Sony.

It comes down to damages, and Sony can not show even one dollar of lost money in damages when it comes to jailbreaking a PS3, not one dollar lost because a console is used for Linux, or folding, or whatever. Just like no company lost money because you chose to use non-stock cooling, or a non-stock video card, or use non-MS produced software on your system.

[QUOTENow, I've chosen my words carefully. Before anyone attempts to say I've insulted this kid, please look up the definition to any alleged insults.[/QUOTE]

It's been a good two and a half decades since I have been called a "kid", and more than that since I have "skipped class".

You just seem to want to engage in a fruitless argument, because you are a hypocrite, since your computer is obviously non-stock - but argue that corporates should be able to jail and brick your system at their leisure, so long as they can make some kind of vague connection between a modded system and notions of "cheating", "piracy", and "lost profits".

It's a free world, and people get to pick what they want, without some corporate bossing them around. It would be different if the action itself was illegal. If GeoHot reverse engineered the system, so as to create a competing console, or perhaps to create a system emulator which would turn a regular PC into a PS3 - that is one thing. But this was nothing more than unlocking a feature that the system already has, was already sold with, and no law in any books of any country prohibits anyone fron running Linux on a computer. If the hack leads to piracy, it's not the hacks fault, it is the piracy, and it is the piracy that Sony should be addressing, that is, if they were actually interested in combatting piracy in the first place.

This is however, nothing more than a scheme to force people into PS3 only games, and to remove the "threat" of homebrew alternatives, like major threats like Open Transport Tycoon or DOOM II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Peen View Post
"PS3 is now unhackable".

Sorry Sony, what was that?
The same thing as "the Titanic is unsinkable", and "the Hindenburg is the safest means of air travel possible"...
post #94 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
That is your incorrect opinion that remains entirely unsubstantiated.

You show your cards, thinking that modding a PS3 is somehow "illegal", while you yourself obviously "break the law", since your own sig system is obviously not pure stock. I doubt that you run your system with all "pure" software, 100% legitmate and compliant to the will of the corporates. If you run Firefox or Chrome - you are "breaking the law", running something that is aftermarket, taking away profits that MS should be making. Oh, not using Live or Hotmail, same thing - you ar e "breaking the law". And why do you do such things? Obviously to make your system "usable" by customing and modding - things that you continusally declare to be "illegal" and "against EULAs" and such nonsense.



Windows does not natively support Citrix - it is aftermarket, detracts from the profits MS could make with Live - but still, no lawsuits over that. If something isn't natively supported, then people are entirely free to create whatever they want to do the job they want. Just because a PS3 is a "console" doesn't make it any different from any other machine. People mod machines all of the time, major, extensive mods - but only Sony is suing people for doing such things as viewing videos on YouTube, or prosecuting people that read blogs and forums that contain nothing illegal.

It is yet another thing for Sony to have sold systems with a given feature, that people purchased - and then bricked that feature that people purchased with an underhanded update. It would be like MS bricking people who use OpenOffice because that takes away from the money they could make selling Office.



Except for the fact that the bulk of the people who participate in this thread do not hold your opinion, and think Sony has clearly overstepped their rights, and have resorted to underhanded, and illegal, ways and means, by distributing an "update" that is no different from a trojan horse, that resulted in a purchased feature being switched off; and then going on some kind of rampage prosecuting hobbyists who did nothing illegal, did not sell codes for profit, did not sell a cloned system to defer from Sony.

It comes down to damages, and Sony can not show even one dollar of lost money in damages when it comes to jailbreaking a PS3, not one dollar lost because a console is used for Linux, or folding, or whatever. Just like no company lost money because you chose to use non-stock cooling, or a non-stock video card, or use non-MS produced software on your system.

Now, I've chosen my words carefully. Before anyone attempts to say I've insulted this kid, please look up the definition to any alleged insults.

It's been a good two and a half decades since I have been called a "kid", and more than that since I have "skipped class".

You just seem to want to engage in a fruitless argument, because you are a hypocrite, since your computer is obviously non-stock - but argue that corporates should be able to jail and brick your system at their leisure, so long as they can make some kind of vague connection between a modded system and notions of "cheating", "piracy", and "lost profits".

It's a free world, and people get to pick what they want, without some corporate bossing them around. It would be different if the action itself was illegal. If GeoHot reverse engineered the system, so as to create a competing console, or perhaps to create a system emulator which would turn a regular PC into a PS3 - that is one thing. But this was nothing more than unlocking a feature that the system already has, was already sold with, and no law in any books of any country prohibits anyone fron running Linux on a computer. If the hack leads to piracy, it's not the hacks fault, it is the piracy, and it is the piracy that Sony should be addressing, that is, if they were actually interested in combatting piracy in the first place.

This is however, nothing more than a scheme to force people into PS3 only games, and to remove the "threat" of homebrew alternatives, like major threats like Open Transport Tycoon or DOOM II...
This
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post #95 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by importflip View Post
This

Here , let me finish your statement for you......"This is absolute blather....."


and You're welcome......
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post #96 of 106
Whenever a hacker farts, Sony updates the firmware.
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post #97 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyDave View Post
Teach them.

NEVER PISS OFF HACKERS. They usually have strong views, high intelligence, and a lot of time.

They could care less about fame.... they really just want Sony to pay.

Keep at it guys, Keep at it.
[ B ] <--- agree with that!

But... if they could care less about fame.... then... wait! my brain asploded! Just what is it that they don't care less about?
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post #98 of 106
facepalm.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
That is your incorrect opinion that remains entirely unsubstantiated.
The fact you don't know what you are talking about has been proven many times in many threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
You show your cards, thinking that modding a PS3 is somehow "illegal", while you yourself obviously "break the law", since your own sig system is obviously not pure stock. I doubt that you run your system with all "pure" software, 100% legitmate and compliant to the will of the corporates. If you run Firefox or Chrome - you are "breaking the law", running something that is aftermarket, taking away profits that MS should be making. Oh, not using Live or Hotmail, same thing - you ar e "breaking the law". And why do you do such things? Obviously to make your system "usable" by customing and modding - things that you continusally declare to be "illegal" and "against EULAs" and such nonsense.
Terms of Use/Service change that. There are restrictions to Windows, just a whole lot less. Windows depends on other developers openly developing for it. If Sony released the XMB to be used on supported devices created by other manufacturers, along with selling it in retail stores, they'd rewrite their terms to allow open development. The existence of XMB doesn't depend on someone's ability to use Photoshop or browse the web with Firefox. It meets its purpose and does what it is intended to do.
Reverse engineering Windows, and then releasing its security keys so anyone can unlock it without buying a key would be "illegal". Not a criminal offense, but you could be sued by Microsoft. Do you understand that? You seem to be mixing different concepts. Using non-stock hardware is different from breaking contracts, cracking security, and then exploiting content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Windows does not natively support Citrix - it is aftermarket, detracts from the profits MS could make with Live - but still, no lawsuits over that. If something isn't natively supported, then people are entirely free to create whatever they want to do the job they want. Just because a PS3 is a "console" doesn't make it any different from any other machine.
When I said natively supports, it was a generalization so you could understand the fact that you don't need to crack the PS3 to be functional.
Yes, people are free to do what ever they want. You are free to go rob a bank, doesn't make it right. Doesn't mean you won't get punished for it. You are free to crack your PS3, but Sony is free to ban you from PSN and revoke features they are letting you use. It is simple, if you don't follow the rules you agreed to, then you don't get the benefits that everyone else gets. Geo didn't just crack the PS3, he openly distributed it to everyone with instructions. He shared the signing keys, he did more than "hobbying".

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
People mod machines all of the time, major, extensive mods - but only Sony is suing people for doing such things as viewing videos on YouTube, or prosecuting people that read blogs and forums that contain nothing illegal.
*sigh*. You continue with your nonsense. Sony isn't suing people for viewing the videos. They aren't prosecuting people that read the blogs or forums. They were getting numbers to know how much Geo spread the information, because that is one of the things he is in court for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
It is yet another thing for Sony to have sold systems with a given feature, that people purchased - and then bricked that feature that people purchased with an underhanded update. It would be like MS bricking people who use OpenOffice because that takes away from the money they could make selling Office.
Cool, more bad comparisons. Once again, Windows thrives on openly developed content. It would be nothing without it.
Sony did not send an underhanded update. They do not force you to update, you could keep the features as long as you want. By updating, you agree to all of the changes and it is perfectly okay. Now, I'm suspecting you are going to start the nonsense about "ultimatums" between PSN and OtherOS. When you create your PSN account, you must agree to the terms. The terms clearly state that they have the right to remove features. If you didn't like that, you could have went out and returned your console. You did not have to proceed any further with the brand. By continuing and making the account, you said it was completely okay with you and you understand. So, when they removed the feature in an update, you had to make the choice. PSN, which I agreed to the fact of losing the feature. Or keep otherOS, and lose access to PSN because I don't like the new terms. It is completely fair, you are just so blinded by what you think is right. Just because you don't take the time to read what you are essentially signing, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Since you deny being a "kid", it makes me wonder: Weren't you ever taught to read something before signing it? What they asked you to agree to didn't break any laws, so it is completely legitimate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Except for the fact that the bulk of the people who participate in this thread do not hold your opinion, and think Sony has clearly overstepped their rights, and have resorted to underhanded, and illegal, ways and means, by distributing an "update" that is no different from a trojan horse, that resulted in a purchased feature being switched off; and then going on some kind of rampage prosecuting hobbyists who did nothing illegal, did not sell codes for profit, did not sell a cloned system to defer from Sony.
Except what I am saying is fact, not opinionated. It doesn't matter if you think they have overstepped their rights. The fact is, they have not. The courts are granting them their rights to do what they are doing. You may think it is morally wrong, but moral beliefs are not facts.
The update is different from a trojan horse, because they didn't hide their intentions. The release notes are easily accessible and open to the public and updates are optional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
It comes down to damages, and Sony can not show even one dollar of lost money in damages when it comes to jailbreaking a PS3, not one dollar lost because a console is used for Linux, or folding, or whatever. Just like no company lost money because you chose to use non-stock cooling, or a non-stock video card, or use non-MS produced software on your system.
Prove that. It definitely takes resources, such as time and money to work on the patches, updates, and maintenance. Due to the hacking in MW, I stopped playing it and made me decide to not buy the map packs. Money lost, customer lost from Activision. If the same scenario is widespread, Activision will pull support and efforts from the Playstation. Thus, inevitably cause Sony to lose money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
It's been a good two and a half decades since I have been called a "kid", and more than that since I have "skipped class".
If one comes off as a child, one will be referred to as a child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
You just seem to want to engage in a fruitless argument, because you are a hypocrite, since your computer is obviously non-stock - but argue that corporates should be able to jail and brick your system at their leisure, so long as they can make some kind of vague connection between a modded system and notions of "cheating", "piracy", and "lost profits".
To build my computer, I did not have to agree to any terms. If I did have to, then I'd definitely work within those terms. This isn't a hard concept, I do not understand what you are missing here.
Vague references? Vague, not so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
It's a free world, and people get to pick what they want, without some corporate bossing them around.
The "corporate" isn't bossing anyone around. It is simple, follow the rules you agree to or have your access to it revoked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
It would be different if the action itself was illegal.
You can be prosecuted for breach of license agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
This is however, nothing more than a scheme to force people into PS3 only games, and to remove the "threat" of homebrew alternatives, like major threats like Open Transport Tycoon or DOOM II...
So that is what you think. While that could have some part in it, it is quite obvious the main reason is to keep it secure. Not long after the crack was first released, there were games that were swamped with cheaters. It is a problem, you cannot deny that. Plus, I can't imagine the amount of pirates doing it to get out of paying for games. Despite what the majority of this community may believe, pirating is stealing. That is a lost sale. You have someone's work within your possession that was not paid for or was an intentionally agreed gift, whether you planned to purchase it or not, it is still theft.
Edited by Zinxe - 3/20/11 at 6:19pm
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post #99 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
facepalm.jpg


The fact you don't know what you are talking about has been proven many times in many threads.


Terms of Use/Service change that. There are restrictions to Windows, just a whole lot less. Windows depends on other developers openly developing for it. If Sony released the XMB to be used on supported devices created by other manufacturers, along with selling it in retail stores, they'd rewrite their terms to allow open development. The existence of XMB doesn't depend on someone's ability to use Photoshop or browse the web with Firefox. It meets its purpose and does what it is intended to do.
Reverse engineering Windows, and then releasing its security keys so anyone can unlock it without buying a key would be "illegal". Not a criminal offense, but you could be sued by Microsoft. Do you understand that? You seem to be mixing different concepts. Using non-stock hardware is different from breaking contracts, cracking security, and then exploiting content.


When I said natively supports, it was a generalization so you could understand the fact that you don't need to crack the PS3 to be functional.
Yes, people are free to do what ever they want. You are free to go rob a bank, doesn't make it right. Doesn't mean you won't get punished for it. You are free to crack your PS3, but Sony is free to ban you from PSN and revoke features they are letting you use. It is simple, if you don't follow the rules you agreed to, then you don't get the benefits that everyone else gets. Geo didn't just crack the PS3, he openly distributed it to everyone with instructions. He shared the signing keys, he did more than "hobbying".


*sigh*. You continue with your nonsense. Sony isn't suing people for viewing the videos. They aren't prosecuting people that read the blogs or forums. They were getting numbers to know how much Geo spread the information, because that is one of the things he is in court for.


Cool, more bad comparisons. Once again, Windows thrives on openly developed content. It would be nothing without it.
Sony did not send an underhanded update. They do not force you to update, you could keep the features as long as you want. By updating, you agree to all of the changes and it is perfectly okay. Now, I'm suspecting you are going to start the nonsense about "ultimatums" between PSN and OtherOS. When you create your PSN account, you must agree to the terms. The terms clearly state that they have the right to remove features. If you didn't like that, you could have went out and returned your console. You did not have to proceed any further with the brand. By continuing and making the account, you said it was completely okay with you and you understand. So, when they removed the feature in an update, you had to make the choice. PSN, which I agreed to the fact of losing the feature. Or keep otherOS, and lose access to PSN because I don't like the new terms. It is completely fair, you are just so blinded by what you think is right. Just because you don't take the time to read what you are essentially signing, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Since you deny being a "kid", it makes me wonder: Weren't you ever taught to read something before signing it? What they asked you to agree to didn't break any laws, so it is completely legitimate.


Except what I am saying is fact, not opinionated. It doesn't matter if you think they have overstepped their rights. The fact is, they have not. The courts are granting them their rights to do what they are doing. You may think it is morally wrong, but moral beliefs are not facts.
The update is different from a trojan horse, because they didn't hide their intentions. The release notes are easily accessible and open to the public and updates are optional.


Prove that. It definitely takes resources, such as time and money to work on the patches, updates, and maintenance. Due to the hacking in MW, I stopped playing it and made me decide to not buy the map packs. Money lost, customer lost from Activision. If the same scenario is widespread, Activision will pull support and efforts from the Playstation. Thus, inevitably cause Sony to lose money.


If one comes off as a child, one will be referred to as a child.


To build my computer, I did not have to agree to any terms. If I did have to, then I'd definitely work within those terms. This isn't a hard concept, I do not understand what you are missing here.
Vague references? Vague, not so much.



The "corporate" isn't bossing anyone around. It is simple, follow the rules you agree to or have your access to it revoked.

You can be prosecuted for breach of license agreement.


So that is what you think. While that could have some part in it, it is quite obvious the main reason is to keep it secure. Not long after the crack was first released, there were games that were swamped with cheaters. It is a problem, you cannot deny that. Plus, I can't imagine the amount of pirates doing it to get out of paying for games. Despite what the majority of this community may believe, pirating is stealing. That is a lost sale. You have someone's work within your possession that was not paid for or was an intentionally agreed gift, whether you planned to purchase it or not, it is still theft.

You seem to like defending yourself a little too much
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post #100 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post
You seem to like defending yourself a little too much
I love to debate. It is the best way to learn.
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