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[Toms/BT] DirectX Holding Back Game Performance - Page 2

post #11 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post
Just because you read the article and surmised an opinion does not mean every will share that same opinion. You need to change the title to fit the title of the article. No changing the title as per the rules of posting.




Something tells me you didn't read the article:






And PCs don't have "ten times the horsepower." Its not running games at 10x the resolution or 10x the frame rate and how many people have a GTX 580 or a 6970? According to Steam hardware polls, they are of the absolute minority so it hardly means that we will see some amazing new breakthrough if every developer switched from a high-level programming language to a low-level one. You still have to develop games for the most common denominator and I wager that most gamers still have 8800GTs, 4870s, etc. which, if you look at the specifications, are no were close to having 10x the shaders or bandwidth of consoles.

Furthermore, the reason Direct3D is so popular is because you don't have to program at near-machine-code or low level to get great results. Developers could bypass the API but why spend millions doing so when an API is already made...



In my opinion, Innovation has always started on consoles rather than PC and this just solidifies my feelings even more:
The potential is there in the PC to surpass the console greatly, but it's hard to tap into. Console is easier to develop for, we already knew that. If PC was just as easy, it would be the other way around. As for the Steam numbers, I wouldn't lump everyone together and say this percentage uses this. There are different levels of gamers and everyone doesn't play the same type of games. Crysis and Battlefied gamers tend to have higher end PCs than Counter Strike and Team Fortress gamers, but Steam counts them all the same. Money and "need" has a lot to do with people not having the lastest hardware. If TF2 and CS runs just fine on their 8800GTX, why upgrade. The majority of gamers have that mindset, thus the numbers you see on Steam.

If high end gamers stopped buying high end hardware, the PC gaming market will become stale. Everyone will be playing games like COD, Minecraft, TF2, Portal, etc. everyday. The market is moving forward i.e. BF3, and game devs help move it forward by developing demanding games. If gamers want to play it, they have to finally upgrade after a bunch of years not doing so. But, when a dev releases a DX9 game for PC, it makes them feel that their PC is still up to date, sufficient, then they put off upgrading for another year.
Edited by WorldExclusive - 3/19/11 at 1:52am
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post #12 of 61
we should have a minimalist os that runs games at low-level with a windows 95 interface.
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post #13 of 61
Thats not really the problem though you could still have an nice looking interface without sacrificing performance (look at linux) the problem is there is no efficient hardware unified and scalable API.
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post #14 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuStIn871 View Post
we should have a minimalist os that runs games at low-level with a windows 95 interface.
The OS's interface (and its minimalism) has nothing to do with how many software layers you have underneath the game code.
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post #15 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Core2uu View Post
The OS's interface (and its minimalism) has nothing to do with how many software layers you have underneath the game code.
I understand that but a minimalist design would keep used ram levels low
and if games could run low level code on the os it would work flawlessly.
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post #16 of 61
If anyone has played console games that are also on PC you will notice even without AA, the PC games if compared to a console version, would look like you maxed out AA.

Also add on the fact that on consoles the models look just as detailed as the PC, but the environment looks much flatter.

Oh yeah and 640p....
post #17 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post
And PCs don't have "ten times the horsepower." Its not running games at 10x the resolution or 10x the frame rate and how many people have a GTX 580 or a 6970? According to Steam hardware polls, they are of the absolute minority so it hardly means that we will see some amazing new breakthrough if every developer switched from a high-level programming language to a low-level one. You still have to develop games for the most common denominator and I wager that most gamers still have 8800GTs, 4870s, etc. which, if you look at the specifications, are no were close to having 10x the shaders or bandwidth of consoles.
You didn't look up any facts before posting, eh..

A Radeon 5870 is capable of 2.7 Teraflops, while the PS3's Cell processor is capable of only 230GFlops. (Couldn't find data on the 7900 also inside the PS3, but it's going to be very meager in comparison)

A modern gaming PC easily has ten times the power of a 2006 era console.
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post #18 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuStIn871 View Post
and if games could run low level code on the os it would work flawlessly.
Actually it would possibly work very badly. An API standardises everything so that a single function call will work on a variety of hardware (since the API passes the call to the driver which translates it into something hardware-specific). It puts the work on driver developers to communicate with the API, not so much game developers. Without the API, game developers must know how each and every hardware architecture works. I dare say that the concept of backwards compatibility will vanish as well. Right now you can play many modern games with DX9-only cards (barely, but you can). I doubt that if there was no API that game developers would worry about older architectures like those.
    
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post #19 of 61
Well as if any game designer would invest time in hardware optimization PC software is compiled with some generic compiler optimizations like i686 to make it run on every CPU there is same with x64 arch, no way we will see mass market titles with x64 binarys.

They just want the biggest bang for the buck and not to invest time that is offered by directX, and that´s why everybody uses it it actually is the other way around some Hardware Software ppl try to avoid DX standards and use **** like NVApi and then piss off AMD users or the other way around.
post #20 of 61
When every DX comes out its states that its better optimized and will run faster but thats never the case. Even if DX was the limitation if developers used the latest DX as native then games would look and run much faster. For example as of now i dont know a native DX11 game, maybe even no DX10 native game, Halo 2 comes to mind, In short they cant because it will limit a lot of users. Games like Crysis 2 should be expected to run in a DX10+ game so it should have been DX10 Native but no it must be DX9.
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