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post #31 of 62
wonder why asrock or biostar did not send their promo guys in order to push their products.

oc boards are the best place to push sales or impress some noobs.

...maybe they have,but at least not so obvious.
post #32 of 62
i am not a promo guy, and no one pushed me or tells me to post anywhere. but i have see a biostar review at XS it was posted today.

You know GB/Asus/MSI/they all have hardware reps, but it doesn't seem they come around these parts. almost all mobo companies put OCers into a subcategory of gamers.
Edited by Sin0822 - 3/19/11 at 7:07pm
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post #33 of 62
I agree with anyone who says the Sabertooth P67 TUF Thermal Armour edition, it is absolutely bad ass. MAXIMUM ARMOUR!
    
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post #34 of 62
That is a good lookin board. If it's anything compared to the 58X in terms of performance and quality; It'd be my choice. Not giving up on my 920 yet though.
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post #35 of 62
the quality of the power phases on the M4E is better than the UD7? I own the M4E and I was told the UD7 has better quality in every aspect in general...Hey sin didn't you have a UD7 at one point as your sig rig? I like gigabyte products, but have never used one
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post #36 of 62
yea i have a bunch of rigs man, i just listed my most expensive haha, i really like the assassin board. I still have my UD7, its just sitting here because i don't have a monitor for it, and i have everything setup on this computer. Its a good board, but teh M4E is too. Quality wise they are very similar, the M4E actually has a very high quality VRm, but the one of the UD7 and the M4E are not comparable becuase they use titally different method with each having its high points.

The M4E uses a chil digital PWM the GB uses a intersil analogue PWM
The difference is that the Chil uses a bunch of analogue to digital and digital to analogue converters, and the intersil has to use a seperate chip for LLC and phase control other than switching, the Chil has its own firmware and can be programmed and controlled through bios, the intersil is all hardware.

The M4E uses (high side and low side) MOSFETs and a separate driver (canpack package which are very high quality, probably the highest quality standalone FETs) per phase, each fet can switch at 1mhz, and can put out 30-40amps.

The UD7 uses Driver MOSFETs, which are integrated MOSFETs and Drivers into one IC, this reduces trace length and motherboard real estate. It also reduces driver signal length which is very important, each of the internal MOSFETs can switch at 1mhz, and putout 35amps per phase.

The UD7 uses ferrite core chokes and so does the M4E.

They both use electrolytic aluminum sold capacitors, and the M4E uses a lot more bulk capacitance.

Now the UD7 has 24 phases and the M4E actually has 16, even though most people only see 8. I count phases by the amount of driver MOSFETs or dedicated pairs of highside and low side MOSFETs, which makes the M4E have 16 phases because of 16 pairs, 2 pairs per choke and channel. The UD7 uses 4 Driver MOSFETs and 4 chokes per channel/phase from the PWM.

Mobo power supplies are extremely complex now a days, you have many variables such as transient response balanced with bulk capacitance. The more capacitors =more bulk capacitance which comes with its own resistance, and when you have more resistance you have a lower transient response. Switching frequency is directly related to transient response, but transient response isn't the first priority, you want to balance efficiency with transient response, with ESR(capacitor resistance). Idly you want high efficiency, low ripple, and good transient response. but the voltages we see through CPU-Z all have to do with LLC and how well it is tweaked.

The reason you see so little capacitors on the UD7 is because they have so many phases and so many chokes, which brings it higher efficiency and lower temps.

The M4E has many more capacitors and less phases with less chokes.

in the end transient response is probably very close on both power supplies(VRM) with voltage regulation being all in the PWM, and both use top notch PWMs, of course i think the volterra on the evga classified x58 is the best digital pwm. intersil makes the best analogue pwms, and digital right now the best is chil because they are the only with VRD12 certification for digital and intersil with VRD12 for analogue, and the truth is both give the same voltage accuracy and can implement the same voltage regulation. The funny part is that they do it the same way, its just one has more features and is easier to implement, while the other is a bit harder to implement, but has more options. The difference between digital and analogue PWMs is so small, both are actually digital because the word "phase" means digital because its not just on and off its tiny bits pulsating.

That is just skimming the top of the subject, but to be very honest they didn't teak LLC as well as they should have on the UD7. That should change with B3 as a simple BIOS update can change that, i have seen it too and messed with it.
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post #37 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post
yea i have a bunch of rigs man, i just listed my most expensive haha, i really like the assassin board. I still have my UD7, its just sitting here because i don't have a monitor for it, and i have everything setup on this computer. Its a good board, but teh M4E is too. Quality wise they are very similar, the M4E actually has a very high quality VRm, but the one of the UD7 and the M4E are not comparable becuase they use titally different method with each having its high points.

The M4E uses a chil digital PWM the GB uses a intersil analogue PWM
The difference is that the Chil uses a bunch of analogue to digital and digital to analogue converters, and the intersil has to use a seperate chip for LLC and phase control other than switching, the Chil has its own firmware and can be programmed and controlled through bios, the intersil is all hardware.

The M4E uses (high side and low side) MOSFETs and a separate driver (canpack package which are very high quality, probably the highest quality standalone FETs) per phase, each fet can switch at 1mhz, and can put out 30-40amps.

The UD7 uses Driver MOSFETs, which are integrated MOSFETs and Drivers into one IC, this reduces trace length and motherboard real estate. It also reduces driver signal length which is very important, each of the internal MOSFETs can switch at 1mhz, and putout 35amps per phase.

The UD7 uses ferrite core chokes and so does the M4E.

They both use electrolytic aluminum sold capacitors, and the M4E uses a lot more bulk capacitance.

Now the UD7 has 24 phases and the M4E actually has 16, even though most people only see 8. I count phases by the amount of driver MOSFETs or dedicated pairs of highside and low side MOSFETs, which makes the M4E have 16 phases because of 16 pairs, 2 pairs per choke and channel. The UD7 uses 4 Driver MOSFETs and 4 chokes per channel/phase from the PWM.

Mobo power supplies are extremely complex now a days, you have many variables such as transient response balanced with bulk capacitance. The more capacitors =more bulk capacitance which comes with its own resistance, and when you have more resistance you have a lower transient response. Switching frequency is directly related to transient response, but transient response isn't the first priority, you want to balance efficiency with transient response, with ESR(capacitor resistance). Idly you want high efficiency, low ripple, and good transient response. but the voltages we see through CPU-Z all have to do with LLC and how well it is tweaked.

The reason you see so little capacitors on the UD7 is because they have so many phases and so many chokes, which brings it higher efficiency and lower temps.

The M4E has many more capacitors and less phases with less chokes.

in the end transient response is probably very close on both power supplies(VRM) with voltage regulation being all in the PWM, and both use top notch PWMs, of course i think the volterra on the evga classified x58 is the best digital pwm. intersil makes the best analogue pwms, and digital right now the best is chil because they are the only with VRD12 certification for digital and intersil with VRD12 for analogue, and the truth is both give the same voltage accuracy and can implement the same voltage regulation. The funny part is that they do it the same way, its just one has more features and is easier to implement, while the other is a bit harder to implement, but has more options. The difference between digital and analogue PWMs is so small, both are actually digital because the word "phase" means digital because its not just on and off its tiny bits pulsating.

That is just skimming the top of the subject, but to be very honest they didn't teak LLC as well as they should have on the UD7. That should change with B3 as a simple BIOS update can change that, i have seen it too and messed with it.
So in short, the M4E is better than the UD7?

How about the bang-for-the-buck motherboard?
post #38 of 62
that is not what I said, i think the UD7 is a better board with a better VRM. Both their VRMs are more than plenty. They both have top notch VRMs which shouldn't be the deciding factor, there is no way to say that the UD7s is better than the M4E because there are so many factors, just that both are the best in their own ways.

VRD12 spec has really put a really tight umbrella over what the VRM should be doing and how precise is should be. You might be able to compare some aspects, both use the best quality mosfets in their own respective classes, i have no clue why asus doesn't use driver mosfets other than they have left over canpack from rampage 3 series just like gb did from their x58 boards. And their PWMs offer both precision accuracy.

In the end it comes down to what features you want/need and actually the looks of the board is important as is brand loyalty, if you are comfortable with asus and get teh M4E, you like gigabyte go gigabyte, there are some other offerings from MSI and even biostar that don't look bad. in teh end OCing is not really part of the mobos job anymore.
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post #39 of 62
Ha ha...yeah..I wanted to build another rig with the sniper, or guerrilla board and add some slight modifications and possibly put it under water...I'm just getting into computer hardware and such, and am fascinated by it, to say the least... Your knowledge on the subject matter is impressive...essentially both the M4E and UD7 are identical, but not so much...as you mentioned the phases are handled differently..and I swear someone said the M4E had 21 phases...I was also told that the UD7 was designed in such a way that it may actually help with temps inside the case..is that true?

And, no it doesn't mean that the M4E is better...because I actually like both boards equally..they perform almost identically with each having their own unique merits... I heard that both have the NF200 chip...but to utilize the 16x bandwidth you need to have the first slot occupied for both the motherboards...that's funny because people keep saying there are no P67 boards with the ability to run cards at 16x
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post #40 of 62
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info.

But how about the bang-for-the-buck mobo?

Also, what is the difference between the different slots like 1155 and X58?
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