Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › Are they the same psu?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Are they the same psu? - Page 3

post #21 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables;12831214 
That's extremely different.


No it's not... the Viper costs more (as will an overkill PSU), is less fuel efficient (as would be the overkill PSU) exactly same analogy just with automobiles... we should also note the Viper engine will last many more kilometers than the 50cc engine of the scooter biggrin.gif


Thus I put it too you that since there is an apparent dislike for a slightly less efficient PSU's (due to lower duty cycle loading) buying bigger is slammed unfairly, you read the links you're posting up right?

Well...

Quote:
Hey, a tiny difference in efficiency--in favor of the smaller PSU. How about that. Now consider that a quality 400W power supply with that kind of efficiency curve can be had for about $40, while a 650W PSU with that kind of efficiency might run $80. A $40 difference. So that's $40, plus slightly (slightly) higher electricity bill, by going with the 650W instead of the 400W.


Thus opting for minimally higher running costs and the obvious higher initial outlay is for some people an acceptable compromise between current needs and those that may arise down the track... hence BETTER for some people not everyone thumb.gif



Q: Future proofing a myth? confused.gif

Well that's open to individual interpretation, I mean just look at the current trend for GPU power consumption over the last few years and you'll see it's actually going up and not down most notably in the high-end cards.

My (now old) Antec PSU's were in their day overkill as most 250w PSU's were more than sufficient to power 95% of the systems in that period...
  • Antec Truepower 380 (2002)
  • Antec TrueBlue480 (2003)


Still in use, still returning on my initial investment admittedly I recapped them (but had their fans cooled the capacitors better I may not have needed to), hence a 250w bought then wouldn't be sufficient for my needs now (or into the unseen future) as my current units are, do you get what I'm saying? choosing a PSU based solely on it's efficiency-to-size ratio isn't in the interests of everyone no matter how many cents a week they can save off their utility bill... that's not to say I don't support saving a quid where able biggrin.gif

Choosing wisely has actually saved me an unnecessary PSU upgrade down the track (since my initial purchase) YMMV cool.gif
Leviathan
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
San Diego 3700+ MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Gigabyte Radeon 9600XT 128Mb 2Gb Geil Ultra-X DDR400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate Barracuda 80Gb SATA Asus DRW20B1LT SATA Dual boot XPpro/Fedora Core 14 19" Acer AL1916W (recapped) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CompaQ KB-0133 Antec TrueBlue480 (recapped) CoolerMaster Centurion CAC-T01 Logitech M-S34 
  hide details  
Reply
Leviathan
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
San Diego 3700+ MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Gigabyte Radeon 9600XT 128Mb 2Gb Geil Ultra-X DDR400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate Barracuda 80Gb SATA Asus DRW20B1LT SATA Dual boot XPpro/Fedora Core 14 19" Acer AL1916W (recapped) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CompaQ KB-0133 Antec TrueBlue480 (recapped) CoolerMaster Centurion CAC-T01 Logitech M-S34 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ()ut[@st View Post
No it's not... the Viper costs more (as will an overkill PSU), is less fuel efficient (as would be the overkill PSU) exactly same analogy just with automobiles... we should also note the Viper engine will last many more kilometers than the 50cc engine of the scooter
Your analogy can only apply to CPUs and GPUs because one car is more powerful than the other. Power supplies have a power capacity.

Again:

On PSU Efficiency

PSU "50% Load" Myth

Read these articles!!! Do you think I'm just posting them for fun?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ()ut[@st View Post
Thus I put it too you that since there is an apparent dislike for a slightly less efficient PSU's (due to lower duty cycle loading) buying bigger is slammed unfairly, you read the links you're posting up right?

Well...p
It is due to everything I have learned from our local PSU expert named Phaedrus2129. I know you know who he is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ()ut[@st View Post
Thus opting for minimally higher running costs and the obvious higher initial outlay is for some people an acceptable compromise between current needs and those that may arise down the track... hence BETTER for some people not everyone
During my time here on OCN, I've seen hundreds of people talk about possible future upgrades in order to justify getting an 850W when all they need is a 550W, but only about 1% of those people ever followed through on their "possible upgrade".


Quote:
Originally Posted by ()ut[@st View Post
Q: Future proofing a myth?

Well that's open to individual interpretation, I mean just look at the current trend for GPU power consumption over the last few years and you'll see it's actually going up and not down most notably in the high-end cards.

My (now old) Antec PSU's were in their day overkill as most 250w PSU's were more than sufficient to power 95% of the systems in that period...
  • Antec Truepower 380 (2002)
  • Antec TrueBlue480 (2003)


Still in use, still returning on my initial investment admittedly I recapped them (but had their fans cooled the capacitors better I may not have needed to), hence a 250w bought then wouldn't be sufficient for my needs now (or into the unseen future) as my current units are, do you get what I'm saying? choosing a PSU based solely on it's efficiency-to-size ratio isn't in the interests of everyone no matter how many cents a week they can save off their utility bill... that's not to say I don't support saving a quid where able

Choosing wisely has actually saved me an unnecessary PSU upgrade down the track (since my initial purchase) YMMV
Well duh, but I'm not taking it this far. All I am doing is showing what I'm showing and I'm leaving it at that.
It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #23 of 41
why is this thread still going? Buy a 750W, a good one and keep if for a long time. your rig realistically could run on a 600W quite nicely, if u add a GTX 570 maybe a HDD some fans, now thats different. hence why 750W PSu is Perfect. theres tonnes of 750W Psu's on the market. good ones include, Corsair Ax/HX series, Seasonic Xseris, NZXT Hale90, Sparkle Calibre ( I think) , Xfx units, Antedc TP Series and a few others. generally u stick with these brands ( check there reviews first ( Best place is probly Johnny Guru for PSU's)) and you should be fine.
Bertha
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 1055T |4.3GHZ @ 1.52V| Asus Crosshair IV Asus ENGTX460TOP 1GB|950Mhz/4500Mhz| Mushkin Redline DDR3 1600 | 6-8-6-24 @1.75V| 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Corsair V128 + WD Green 1TB Seagate.12 1TB LG DVD Burner Sata Windows 7 Ultimate Gamer Edition 2* ASUS VH242H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750W Corsair 650D Razor DeathAdder 
AudioAudioAudio
1978 Nikko Alpha II / Beta II Amp & Pre-Amp 1989 B&W DM550 Loudspeakers 1994 Energy ESM-1S Loudspeakers 
  hide details  
Reply
Bertha
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X6 1055T |4.3GHZ @ 1.52V| Asus Crosshair IV Asus ENGTX460TOP 1GB|950Mhz/4500Mhz| Mushkin Redline DDR3 1600 | 6-8-6-24 @1.75V| 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Corsair V128 + WD Green 1TB Seagate.12 1TB LG DVD Burner Sata Windows 7 Ultimate Gamer Edition 2* ASUS VH242H 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750W Corsair 650D Razor DeathAdder 
AudioAudioAudio
1978 Nikko Alpha II / Beta II Amp & Pre-Amp 1989 B&W DM550 Loudspeakers 1994 Energy ESM-1S Loudspeakers 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 41
Look ()ut[@st, this is mostly in regards to what Enigma said in disagreement to what I said regarding overkill power supplies. He has an HX1000 to power a system with just two 5770s in it! That's extremely excessive overkill. AMD recommends a 600W to power a system that has two 5770s in it, and they're talkin' about PSU's with a 600W peak rating!

Anyway, I've had enough of this; jag9326 has the answer he came here for.
Edited by TwoCables - 3/22/11 at 7:22pm
It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #25 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
Your analogy can only apply to CPUs and GPUs because one car is more powerful than the other. Power supplies have a power capacity.
Engines vary in capacity as much as they do power



Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
Read these articles!!! Do you think I'm just posting them for fun?
Yeah, but do you understand them?



Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
It is due to everything I have learned from our local PSU expert named Phaedrus2129. I know you know who he is.
Uh huh, every forum has one...



Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
During my time here on OCN, I've seen hundreds of people talk about possible future upgrades in order to justify getting an 850W when all they need is a 550W, but only about 1% of those people ever followed through on their "possible upgrade".

[snip]

Well duh, but I'm not taking it this far. All I am doing is showing what I'm showing and I'm leaving it at that.

Oh but you are... by throwing up this "bigger is never better argument" regardless of the individual, once you factor in the slight power consumption variance (I've already posted your guru's summary) the only major difference is the initial financial outlay which will easily be offset by the extended service period... once again this isn't for everyone BUT categorically trumpeting to the masses that "bigger is NEVER better" is a completely and utterly flawed standpoint...



Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
Anyway, I've had enough of this; jag9326 has the answer he came here for.
He sure has... think outside of the box, buy quality and make up your own mind based on your individual needs
Edited by ()ut[@st - 3/22/11 at 7:44pm
Leviathan
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
San Diego 3700+ MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Gigabyte Radeon 9600XT 128Mb 2Gb Geil Ultra-X DDR400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate Barracuda 80Gb SATA Asus DRW20B1LT SATA Dual boot XPpro/Fedora Core 14 19" Acer AL1916W (recapped) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CompaQ KB-0133 Antec TrueBlue480 (recapped) CoolerMaster Centurion CAC-T01 Logitech M-S34 
  hide details  
Reply
Leviathan
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
San Diego 3700+ MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Gigabyte Radeon 9600XT 128Mb 2Gb Geil Ultra-X DDR400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate Barracuda 80Gb SATA Asus DRW20B1LT SATA Dual boot XPpro/Fedora Core 14 19" Acer AL1916W (recapped) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CompaQ KB-0133 Antec TrueBlue480 (recapped) CoolerMaster Centurion CAC-T01 Logitech M-S34 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 41
I don't feel like writing a long post.


My goal in regards to recommending lower wattage power supplies is to make sure that people understand the pros and cons, so they don't buy a 1kW PSU for what amounts to ignorance and the advice of idiots. "Headroom". "Future proof". What they amount to is, "I want a power supply with bigger numbers on it." I won't tolerate people buying into crap like and spending money they don't need to.

If you understand what you're doing, then go ahead and get a higher wattage power supply. But 90%+ of the users on this forum don't understand, and so I have to try to tell who would benefit from the extra wattage and who would just be throwing away money.
post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
If you understand what you're doing, then go ahead and get a higher wattage power supply. But 90%+ of the users on this forum don't understand, and so I have to try to tell who would benefit from the extra wattage and who would just be throwing away money.
+1 Exactly, different horses for different courses! I'm glad you were able to "shoe horn" in the short version of your intended reply
Leviathan
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
San Diego 3700+ MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Gigabyte Radeon 9600XT 128Mb 2Gb Geil Ultra-X DDR400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate Barracuda 80Gb SATA Asus DRW20B1LT SATA Dual boot XPpro/Fedora Core 14 19" Acer AL1916W (recapped) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CompaQ KB-0133 Antec TrueBlue480 (recapped) CoolerMaster Centurion CAC-T01 Logitech M-S34 
  hide details  
Reply
Leviathan
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
San Diego 3700+ MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Gigabyte Radeon 9600XT 128Mb 2Gb Geil Ultra-X DDR400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate Barracuda 80Gb SATA Asus DRW20B1LT SATA Dual boot XPpro/Fedora Core 14 19" Acer AL1916W (recapped) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CompaQ KB-0133 Antec TrueBlue480 (recapped) CoolerMaster Centurion CAC-T01 Logitech M-S34 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 41
This is my POV.

For most people that buy ridiculously overkill PSU's... they always say "it's for future upgrades", it's for "headroom". 99% of the time, that time never comes. I mean, I'm sure everybody would love to Quad SLI GTX 580's or something like that, but for a lot of people, they know that isn't going to happen. Therefore buying a 1000w PSU when you KNOW for a fact you aren't going to SLI three GTX 580's in the future, is a complete waste of money. Usually you can get a rough idea on *likely* upgrade paths (but is by no means a reliable way of telling) just by looking at the users sig rig. Like if someone has SLI GTX 460's... it's probably unlikely they would SLI/CF any 250W+ TDP GPU's in future.

As Phaedrus said, there's alot of people that don't understand what they're doing. Heck, there's alot of people that don't understand how much power their components use. I've been on certain "tech" forums where people think you need a minimum of 850w for one GTX 480.

Another thing worth noting is that there's alot of people who are afraid to use their PSU for what it's intended for. They like to baby their PSU. I've heard things like "you should never run a PSU above 80% capacity" and "your PSU will only last six months if you run it at its rated wattage". And amongst all of the other misinformation in this section, that is probably the biggest heap of bull**** I've seen so far. If you buy for example, a good 500w PSU.... that means it can run continuously at 500w for years on end. Not for six months, not for a few seconds. It's a continuous rating, not a peak one.
Edited by GameBoy - 3/22/11 at 10:53pm
Rig
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820k ga-x99-sli gigabyte 7970 wf 16gb 4x4 lpx 
Hard DriveCoolingPowerCase
samsung 830 128gb ven x/gt ap-15 evga g2 650w corsair 450d 
Audio
jbl lsr305 
  hide details  
Reply
Rig
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820k ga-x99-sli gigabyte 7970 wf 16gb 4x4 lpx 
Hard DriveCoolingPowerCase
samsung 830 128gb ven x/gt ap-15 evga g2 650w corsair 450d 
Audio
jbl lsr305 
  hide details  
Reply
post #29 of 41
I have the old TX750 powering a 1090T, 4GB of RAM, 2 HDDs, 6 fans and a 6870. is that overkill? I actually DO plan on getting another 6870 in the near future.
2010 Build
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
1090T @ 3.6GHz MSI 890FXA-GD70 6870 @ 980MHz Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB @ 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1x Seagate Barracuda 500GB, Seagate Barracuda 1TB LG Black Series Windows 7 ASUS 22" 1080p 2ms LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 3000 Corsair TX750 Dark Fleet DF-10 Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse 1.0A 
  hide details  
Reply
2010 Build
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
1090T @ 3.6GHz MSI 890FXA-GD70 6870 @ 980MHz Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB @ 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1x Seagate Barracuda 500GB, Seagate Barracuda 1TB LG Black Series Windows 7 ASUS 22" 1080p 2ms LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Microsoft Wireless Keyboard 3000 Corsair TX750 Dark Fleet DF-10 Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse 1.0A 
  hide details  
Reply
post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by c010uredbi11s View Post
I have the old TX750 powering a 1090T, 4GB of RAM, 2 HDDs, 6 fans and a 6870. is that overkill? I actually DO plan on getting another 6870 in the near future.
For one 6870, that is major overkill. A good 400w could power that. I would recommend 550-600w for two 6870's... so it's still overkill. It's also worth mentioning that all of my recommendations are based on maximum load, that's with LinX/Furmark (or something similar) running at the same time. Under *normal* gaming load conditions, your rig wouldn't draw more than about 450w, with TWO 6870's.
Rig
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820k ga-x99-sli gigabyte 7970 wf 16gb 4x4 lpx 
Hard DriveCoolingPowerCase
samsung 830 128gb ven x/gt ap-15 evga g2 650w corsair 450d 
Audio
jbl lsr305 
  hide details  
Reply
Rig
(9 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820k ga-x99-sli gigabyte 7970 wf 16gb 4x4 lpx 
Hard DriveCoolingPowerCase
samsung 830 128gb ven x/gt ap-15 evga g2 650w corsair 450d 
Audio
jbl lsr305 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Power Supplies
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › Are they the same psu?