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post #1921 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
Absolutely.
Interesting - but still I can't understand why all of a sudden my games aren't running smoothly any more. Unfortunately when trying to install the Control Panel I went through several different driver versions and have essentially lost track of what changed and where.

However, I reinstalled windows and then performed a clean install of 280.19. My BIOS was left unchanged (still OC'd to 4.4GHz). Perhaps I should have backed up what I wanted, cleared my CMOS and then booted into a Windows install?

Or are your games behaving the same way? (Most likely not, I tend to have **** luck).
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post #1922 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smo View Post
Interesting - but still I can't understand why all of a sudden my games aren't running smoothly any more. Unfortunately when trying to install the Control Panel I went through several different driver versions and have essentially lost track of what changed and where.

However, I reinstalled windows and then performed a clean install of 280.19. My BIOS was left unchanged (still OC'd to 4.4GHz). Perhaps I should have backed up what I wanted, cleared my CMOS and then booted into a Windows install?

Or are your games behaving the same way? (Most likely not, I tend to have **** luck).
I was just suggesting the possibility of the CPU not being able to deliver the performance you would expect and create an artificial bottleneck kind of what we are seeing but alas, GPU usage is a common problem for every Fermi architecture.

One of the reasons I am waiting till after Maxwell is released before upgrading again. I am not buying another GPU ever again that will not stay at 99% in game, or in SLI.

Its incredibly frustrating and lame.

I may not understand the complexities of the architecture or the driver level of communications or the DX API, but I do know when I buy a video card, I expect it to work as advertised. I didn't know that 99% operation or full speed was only achievable in certain applications & conditions, not disclosed to me at the time of purchase.
Edited by RagingCain - 8/7/11 at 2:00pm
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post #1923 of 5154

Smo, 4.4ghz @ 1.3v seems low, I very much doubt that its going to be Prime stable and as Raging said that will definately cause problems. Keep in mind instability in the CPU over time can also cause damage and life expectancy reduction. Say that when you 1st powered your CPU up you could run say 4.6ghz stable @ 1.39v. Well, after a fair amount of time running a 4.4ghz overclock at an unstable voltage you could lose the ability to overclock to 4.6ghz @ 1.39, now it will require 1.395v or 1.4v because of degradation to the CPU.

I very much suggest a Prime95 Blend test for at least 2 hours. If you have done any tweaking to memory you need to do a memtest to at least 30% coverage and alot of people would tell you to do 100%.

Stability is key to such a point as to where you need to change your settings in bios to firm settings rather than leave them on Auto. Set your CPU vcore to manual and put it @ say 1.31v, go into windows and run Prime for 2 hours or until a Worker fails. If a worker fails go into Bios and up the vcore by .005 until workers stop failing. I'm not 100% sure of i5's voltage safezone but if its anything like i7-2600k I would stay under 1.43 for daily use and that of course is reliant on your temps. If you see high 80's during Prime I would suggest against sticking with that overclock for 24/7, aim for 83-84 as max temps during Prime if you want your cpu to have a long life.

BTW Smo,
My truck:


650hp 1200tq - estimate based on similar trucks with the same tune on dyno
Edited by Tept - 8/7/11 at 3:59pm
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post #1924 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
I was just suggesting the possibility of the CPU not being able to deliver the performance you would expect and create an artificial bottleneck kind of what we are seeing but alas, GPU usage is a common problem for every Fermi architecture.

One of the reasons I am waiting till after Maxwell is released before upgrading again. I am not buying another GPU ever again that will not stay at 99% in game, or in SLI.

Its incredibly frustrating and lame.

I may not understand the complexities of the architecture or the driver level of communications or the DX API, but I do know when I buy a video card, I expect it to work as advertised. I didn't know that 99% operation or full speed was only achievable in certain applications & conditions, not disclosed to me at the time of purchase.
I feel the same way mate - I don't care if my hardware can produce ~50fps at 50% usage, I want it to provide me with the absolute maximum FPS it can, at maximum usage, at all times. Demanding maximum performance doesn't seem outrageous to me - after all, isn't that why people like you and me pay a premium for the highest spec hardware?

As for the juddery games, perhaps it's a mix of several things and I'm just blaming the card because of my ignorance when it comes to how a PC really works. After all, this is the first PC I've ever built so I should have expected teething problems I guess!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tept View Post
Smo, 4.4ghz @ 1.3v seems low, I very much doubt that its going to be Prime stable and as Raging said that will definately cause problems. Keep in mind instability in the CPU over time can also cause damage and life expectancy reduction. Say that when you 1st powered your CPU up you could run say 4.6ghz stable @ 1.39v. Well, after a fair amount of time running a 4.4ghz overclock at an unstable voltage you could lose the ability to overclock to 4.6ghz @ 1.39, now it will require 1.395v or 1.4v because of degradation to the CPU.

I very much suggest a Prime95 Blend test for at least 2 hours. If you have done any tweaking to memory you need to do a memtest to at least 30% coverage and alot of people would tell you to do 100%.

Stability is key to such a point as to where you need to change your settings in bios to firm settings rather than leave them on Auto. Set your CPU vcore to manual and put it @ say 1.31v, go into windows and run Prime for 2 hours or until a Worker fails. If a worker fails go into Bios and up the vcore by .005 until workers stop failing. I'm not 100% sure of i5's voltage safezone but if its anything like i7-2600k I would stay under 1.43 for daily use and that of course is reliant on your temps. If you see high 80's during Prime I would suggest against sticking with that overclock for 24/7, aim for 83-84 as max temps during Prime if you want your cpu to have a long life.

BTW Smo,
My truck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qxdFl7_qw

650hp 1200tq - estimate based on similar trucks with the same tune on dyno
Thanks very much for taking the time to reply in such detail. I'm more than willing to try a Blend test for a couple of hours.

I do wonder though, would setting the vcore to 1.31v @ 4.4GHz keep the voltage at 1.31v 100% of the time, or only at maximum usage? I'd like to keep the 1.6Ghz idle speed. Essentially I'm asking if when downclocked the vcore will remain at 1.31v or drop to the standard ~0.9v.

I reinstalled windows about a week ago, with the 4.4GHz overclock still in effect so I'm considering doing another format, clearing the CMOS and starting all over again...

If after manually setting my vcore and hitting 2+ hours Prime95 stable at 4.4GHz my games are still a bit juddery, I suppose I have no choice!

The only reason I've kicked up a fuss about this is because when I swapped from my 6950 2GB to the GTX 590 all my games ran as smooth as butter, and now they don't. It's really annoying! In all fairness I'm still considering swapping out my GTX 590 for 2x 6970s in Crossfire (or 2x shader unlocked 6950s).

As for your Truck - do you have a spec list or engine bay pics? I'd like to see more
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post #1925 of 5154
It will still idle down, 1.31v is more of a "max" range.

No spec list lol, its a diesel, it has DrewTech DashDaq gauge panel/tuner, came with pre-loaded 250hp Spartan Diesel Tune, and I have an S&B cold air intake. Course I also took off all the EPA garbage they pile on these trucks now. <--- That alone is almost 100hp increase on these things because it runs through a Cat AND a Diesel Particulate filter system which is, man I should take a pic of it compared to say, a damn dog. It weighs almost 80lbs, between the cat, the dpf, and the stock piping, 80-90lbs, and thats only from downpipe to axle, that doesnt include tailpipe. But thats it, thats the mod list. These trucks come with 350hp/650tq stock @ around 30psi. The Spartan tune hits 43 in the last 2 gears(5 spd auto). Full weight is 8440lbs with me sitting in it on a half tank(15gal). At that weight I sat door to door with a 13.0sec mustang from a 40mph to 130mph roll.

And if you think my numbers are ridiculous for a almost stock diesel, go Youtube 340 Spartan tuned 6.4L powerstroke. Your jaw will fall off. Guys doing almost 2000tq on a 340 tune with spray.



Just incase there are doubts of ownership =P.

vvvvv This is the toy I miss though. I kick myself 2 to 3 times daily over selling this.


Edited by Tept - 8/8/11 at 7:22am
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post #1926 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smo View Post
I feel the same way mate - I don't care if my hardware can produce ~50fps at 50% usage, I want it to provide me with the absolute maximum FPS it can, at maximum usage, at all times. Demanding maximum performance doesn't seem outrageous to me - after all, isn't that why people like you and me pay a premium for the highest spec hardware?

As for the juddery games, perhaps it's a mix of several things and I'm just blaming the card because of my ignorance when it comes to how a PC really works. After all, this is the first PC I've ever built so I should have expected teething problems I guess!


Thanks very much for taking the time to reply in such detail. I'm more than willing to try a Blend test for a couple of hours.

I do wonder though, would setting the vcore to 1.31v @ 4.4GHz keep the voltage at 1.31v 100% of the time, or only at maximum usage? I'd like to keep the 1.6Ghz idle speed. Essentially I'm asking if when downclocked the vcore will remain at 1.31v or drop to the standard ~0.9v.

I reinstalled windows about a week ago, with the 4.4GHz overclock still in effect so I'm considering doing another format, clearing the CMOS and starting all over again...

If after manually setting my vcore and hitting 2+ hours Prime95 stable at 4.4GHz my games are still a bit juddery, I suppose I have no choice!

The only reason I've kicked up a fuss about this is because when I swapped from my 6950 2GB to the GTX 590 all my games ran as smooth as butter, and now they don't. It's really annoying! In all fairness I'm still considering swapping out my GTX 590 for 2x 6970s in Crossfire (or 2x shader unlocked 6950s).

As for your Truck - do you have a spec list or engine bay pics? I'd like to see more
If the CPU seems stable, then I would suggest going around and figuring out what voltages are needed for 4.8 GHz and see if that makes a difference. I also suggest you get a better air cooler / heatsink than stock to go higher (temperatures need to be taken care of) but its not terrible for the 2500/2600k.

A lot of people think that the raw speed of SandyBridge is so much better than x58 processors but in reality, we can overclock things like QPI and Uncore and if I am not mistaken those values are either locked or integrated into the main CPU communication frequencies.

I don't know what voltage you would need for 4.8 GHz, I have no i7 2500/2600k processors, but I am sure someone can help you out.

I have a feeling that will smooth out performance for you, because of this:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...trifire_redux/

Read the whole article. They re-did all their tests after a bunch of us suggested that the CPU / Chipset was seriously bottlenecking the 580s.

I think they even had one 580 in a x4 Slot, for craps sake... anyways, they re-did the testing and boy were we right.

I know thats 580s are not 590s, but the architecture responds very well to a higher overclock, something I am not happy about because you shouldn't need a 5 GHz CPU to utilize these products. It seems to be nVidia SLI needs ridiculous overclocks and I can't help but believe the 590 and Quad SLI shows this in the form of lower than expected GPU usage or just stuttery performance in general.
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post #1927 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tept View Post
It will still idle down, 1.31v is more of a "max" range.

No spec list lol, its a diesel, it has DrewTech DashDaq gauge panel/tuner, came with pre-loaded 250hp Spartan Diesel Tune, and I have an S&B cold air intake. Course I also took off all the EPA garbage they pile on these trucks now. <--- That alone is almost 100hp increase on these things because it runs through a Cat AND a Diesel Particulate filter system which is, man I should take a pic of it compared to say, a damn dog. It weighs almost 80lbs, between the cat, the dpf, and the stock piping, 80-90lbs, and thats only from downpipe to axle, that doesnt include tailpipe. But thats it, thats the mod list. These trucks come with 350hp/650tq stock @ around 30psi. The Spartan tune hits 43 in the last 2 gears(5 spd auto). Full weight is 8440lbs with me sitting in it on a half tank(15gal). At that weight I sat door to door with a 13.0sec mustang from a 40mph to 130mph roll.

And if you think my numbers are ridiculous for a almost stock diesel, go Youtube 340 Spartan tuned 6.4L powerstroke. Your jaw will fall off. Guys doing almost 2000tq on a 340 tune with spray.



Just incase there are doubts of ownership =P.

vvvvv This is the toy I miss though. I kick myself 2 to 3 times daily over selling this.

Nice dude - any idea what sort of turbo those things have as standard? A 100% bhp increase is almost unheard of, especially for something that comes out the factory on a production car.

Love the bike by the way, great excuse for getting yourself killed! I want one

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
If the CPU seems stable, then I would suggest going around and figuring out what voltages are needed for 4.8 GHz and see if that makes a difference. I also suggest you get a better air cooler / heatsink than stock to go higher (temperatures need to be taken care of) but its not terrible for the 2500/2600k.

A lot of people think that the raw speed of SandyBridge is so much better than x58 processors but in reality, we can overclock things like QPI and Uncore and if I am not mistaken those values are either locked or integrated into the main CPU communication frequencies.

I don't know what voltage you would need for 4.8 GHz, I have no i7 2500/2600k processors, but I am sure someone can help you out.

I have a feeling that will smooth out performance for you, because of this:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...trifire_redux/

Read the whole article. They re-did all their tests after a bunch of us suggested that the CPU / Chipset was seriously bottlenecking the 580s.

I think they even had one 580 in a x4 Slot, for craps sake... anyways, they re-did the testing and boy were we right.

I know thats 580s are not 590s, but the architecture responds very well to a higher overclock, something I am not happy about because you shouldn't need a 5 GHz CPU to utilize these products. It seems to be nVidia SLI needs ridiculous overclocks and I can't help but believe the 590 and Quad SLI shows this in the form of lower than expected GPU usage or just stuttery performance in general.
Thanks for posting that - I've just had a read through and I must say, I'm stunned. To think that to potentially utilise the full potential of my out-of-the-box NVIDIA hardware I would have to overclock a quad-core CPU to 4.8GHz is mad.

Good job I'm up for trying it then

I have an Antec Kuhler H2O 920 CPU Cooler so temperatures shouldn't be a problem. I'm currently at 4GHz, as last night I downclocked to look into my voltage. What I'll do is run some Benchmarks as is (with my 590 @ 670Mhz) then do a quick forum search for upping the 2500k to 4.8GHz.

I'll work out an overclock that will hopefully prove Prime95 stable and re-run my benchmarks, see what happens. This is also my first in-depth overclock so you're popping my cherry here Cain!

Stay tuned
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post #1928 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smo View Post
Nice dude - any idea what sort of turbo those things have as standard? A 100% bhp increase is almost unheard of, especially for something that comes out the factory on a production car.

Love the bike by the way, great excuse for getting yourself killed! I want one

Thanks for posting that - I've just had a read through and I must say, I'm stunned. To think that to potentially utilise the full potential of my out-of-the-box NVIDIA hardware I would have to overclock a quad-core CPU to 4.8GHz is mad.

Good job I'm up for trying it then

I have an Antec Kuhler H2O 920 CPU Cooler so temperatures shouldn't be a problem. I'm currently at 4GHz, as last night I downclocked to look into my voltage. What I'll do is run some Benchmarks as is (with my 590 @ 670Mhz) then do a quick forum search for upping the 2500k to 4.8GHz.

I'll work out an overclock that will hopefully prove Prime95 stable and re-run my benchmarks, see what happens. This is also my first in-depth overclock so you're popping my cherry here Cain!

Stay tuned
Kinky

Thats how most of us do it, we raise clocks, estimate the voltage needed, then we run Prime95 to test it out.

If it goes for more than 3~24 hours right off the bat good chance you got lucky and may even be able to lower voltage. I like to "trim the fat" on voltage, and use one increment higher than what took me to be stable.

So for 4.4 GHz (what I run 24/7) it took me exactly 1.389v to stabilize. This is just under my maximum safe voltage for my CPU. I went ahead and just put it as 1.4v, even though its Prime95 stable, just as a rule of habbit. I have been stable on Prime95 and IBT and every once in a while I will have a game crash for no apparent reason... I consider it to be some type of dip in voltage and usually just small nudge up ensures complete and total stability.

A lot of these errors can occur if you have too much voltage as well, going to overclocks beyond what your chip is capable requires more voltage, but more voltage does not guarantee more frequency or stability. So if you are starting low which is how I overclock, this may help you figure out how much voltage you need to add/adjust

Here is the order of instability when overclocking just the CPU I go by, but its not all encompassing.


Usually Needs Large amounts of voltage increase: +0.050v
  • Computer fails to enter post: Really Unstable, CPU Voltage Too Low
  • Computer freezes during POST or in BIOS: Really Unstable, Voltage Too Low
  • Computer freezes after POST but before entering Windows: Really Unstable, Voltage Too Low

Needs moderate amounts of voltage increase: +0.025v
  • Computer gets through POST and Windows Boot, but freezes on Desktop: Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.
  • Computer POSTS/Windows Loads, weird application errors come up: Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.
  • Computer boots to desktop, can't get a specific program to load: Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.
  • Computer boots to desktop, every thing looks okay, applications seem sluggish to load, fail to even load period but not necessarily errors: Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.
  • Computer boots to desktop, every thing looks okay, programs load, but there are a few strange errors in EventViewer Logs (drivers & media applications seem to have a lot of warnings/errors.) Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.

Needs fine tuning via voltage increases: +0.010v
  • Everything boots up, and everything loads, no visible signs of errors, but I randomly get BSOD involving error codes that involve drivers for example: 0x0000037 I believe is an nVidia driver (people think its the graphics card and not the CPU) / or CPU errors here 120~129, and or IRQ_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL errors. Any form of crash that is unexpected is unstable. Up ze voltagez!
  • Everything boots up, and everything loads, no visible signs of errors, but video games are not playable (crash): Any form of crash that is unexpected is unstable. Up ze voltagez!


Everything boots up, and everything loads, no visible signs of errors, maybe even video games are playable: This is where most people STOP upping the voltage. Because X Y Z game is playable. In reality, not la la land, its STRESS TESTING TIME!


Needs fine tuning via voltage increases: +0.00250~0.0050v
  • Prime95 runs for about 5 minutes, and the whole program crashes (not Windows). This is slightly unstable, but not enough to bring down the system. You have made progress, but still need to up voltages.
  • Prime95 (SmallFFTS Test) runs for about 1 minute, and an error popups. This is slightly more stable than the program not crashing (no matter how long Prime95 ran before crashing), but its even less likely to bring down the system. You have made progress, but still need to up more voltage.
  • Prime95 (SmallFFTs Test) runs for about 30 minute, and an error popups. This is much more stable, and in fact you have just entered the upper levels of stability even though you have had an error, but its even less likely to bring down the system. You have made progress, but still need to more voltages.
  • Prime95 (SmallFFTs Test) runs for about 3 hours, and an error popups. This is very stable, and in fact you have just entered the what some considered the highest levels of stability. Even though you have had an error, but its very less likely to bring down the system. You have made progress, but still in all honesty, need to up more voltages slightly.
  • Prime95 (SmallFFTs Test) runs for more than 8 hours, no errors. This is enough for me to claim stability, BUT its not as long as some people do run it, especially people who Fold/BOINC and need 100% accuracy on their CPU cycles. I encourage letting it run for at least 24 hours, but at this point, I use my own logic/experience. I let it run for 8 hours, and then I know I am going to increase voltage by one or two increments after its done regadless. To account for the unknown stability. It achieves essentially the same stability in less time, for least amount of voltage required (efficient.)

Once the CPU is "stable" then you switch testing to Prime95 Blend if you are about 4GB of RAM, or run CUSTOM for having large amounts of ram 8/12/16/24 GB of RAM (like me) and just increase memory usage to make it 80~90% of your system RAM. This ensures CPU / Communication / System RAM are also error free. I just like Prime95 because I am used to it and its been around almost as long as I have been playing with computers.

This is how I think others should test for stability. I will tell you though A LOT of people on this forum don't do this... I think primarily for either laziness, heat, or just because they don't understand how it works. I also liked to overclock, but I NEED a stable system. Thats whats very important to me. I think that overclocking has gotten so easy that anyone can now go in and just up multipliers without having to struggle with it etc, so there is nothing learned nor anything risked really.

A lot of people also use the excuse "nothing will run your hardware that hard like Prime95 or IBT" and that is not what the programs do. All those programs do is find an error in mathematics. An error or instability can occur under ANY difficulty or stress on the CPU. They illogically think that only stress produces error. This is simply incorrect, and misinformed. It also allows them to continue being lazy, and encourage others to do the same. It actually pisses me off severely. I don't mind people doing what they want with their hardware, but then they are essentially spreading lies to the new guys, who then learn it this way, AND show up months later and their entire computer doesn't boot. Argh... anyways, enough ranting.

I guarantee 50% of the errors on this forum in form of a game crash, driver crash, media crash, or x y z problem occured, is because a lack of proper overclocking testing. One other extremely useful tool is Window's EventViewer, which you can get to by going to Control Panel -> Small Icons (top right) -> Administrator's Tools -> Event Viewer and check out Windows Logs, specifically Applications, Windows, and Setup (if you are installing a program that crashes.)

It gives you the equivalent of the information found in a BSOD for each application crash. What happens though on an unstable system many background services/tasks/file transfers/updates are corrupted by instability giving you absolutely no notice of it. This is how eventually the System goes down. You get enough of these and its bye bye booting. Don't panic if you see errors though, you have to analyze what type of error, if its the same device/same application it maybe a faulty application. Getting errors here though is a good way to know something is not working the way it should, and many average users don't ever peak in here.
Edited by RagingCain - 8/8/11 at 12:13pm
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post #1929 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
Kinky

Thats how most of us do it, we raise clocks, estimate the voltage needed, then we run Prime95 to test it out.

If it goes for more than 3~24 hours right off the bat good chance you got lucky and may even be able to lower voltage. I like to "trim the fat" on voltage, and use one increment higher than what took me to be stable.

So for 4.4 GHz (what I run 24/7) it took me exactly 1.389v to stabilize. This is just under my maximum safe voltage for my CPU. I went ahead and just put it as 1.4v, even though its Prime95 stable, just as a rule of habbit. I have been stable on Prime95 and IBT and every once in a while I will have a game crash for no apparent reason... I consider it to be some type of dip in voltage and usually just small nudge up ensures complete and total stability.

A lot of these errors can occur if you have too much voltage as well, going to overclocks beyond what your chip is capable requires more voltage, but more voltage does not guarantee more frequency or stability. So if you are starting low which is how I overclock, this may help you figure out how much voltage you need to add/adjust

Here is the order of instability when overclocking just the CPU I go by, but its not all encompassing.


Usually Needs Large amounts of voltage increase: +0.050v
  • Computer fails to enter post: Really Unstable, CPU Voltage Too Low
  • Computer freezes during POST or in BIOS: Really Unstable, Voltage Too Low
  • Computer freezes after POST but before entering Windows: Really Unstable, Voltage Too Low

Needs moderate amounts of voltage increase: +0.025v
  • Computer freezes after POST and Windows Boot, but freezes on Desktop: Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.
  • Computer POSTS/Windows Loads, weird application errors come up: Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.
  • Computer boots to desktop, can't get a specific program to load: Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.
  • Computer boots to desktop, every thing looks okay, applications seem sluggish to load, fail to even load period but not necessarily errors: Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.
  • Computer boots to desktop, every thing looks okay, programs load, but there are a few strange errors in EventViewer Logs (drivers & media seem to have a lot of warnings/errors. Needs moar voltage... still pretty unstable.

Needs fine tuning via voltage increases: +0.010v
  • Everything boots up, and everything loads, no visible signs of errors, but I randomly get BSOD involving error codes that involve drivers for example: 0x0000037 I believe is an nVidia driver (people think its the graphics card and not the CPU) / or CPU errors here 120~129, and or IRQ_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL errors. Any form of crash that is unexpected is unstable. Up ze voltagez!
  • Everything boots up, and everything loads, no visible signs of errors, maybe even video games are not playable (crash): Any form of crash that is unexpected is unstable. Up ze voltagez!


Everything boots up, and everything loads, no visible signs of errors, maybe even video games are playable: This is where most people STOP upping the voltage. Because X Y Z game is playable. STRESS TESTING TIME!


Needs fine tuning via voltage increases: +0.00250~0.0050v
  • Prime95 runs for about 5 minutes, and the whole program crashes (not Windows). This is slightly unstable, but not enough to bring down the system. You have made progress, but still need to up more voltages.
  • Prime95 (SmallFFTS Test) runs for about 1 minute, and an error popups. This is slightly more stable than the program not crashing (no matter how long Prime95 ran before crashing), but its even less likely to bring down the system. You have made progress, but still need to up more voltages.
  • Prime95 (SmallFFTs Test) runs for about 30 minute, and an error popups. This is much more stable, and in fact you have just entered the upper levels of stability even though you have had an error, but its even less likely to bring down the system. You have made progress, but still need to up more voltages.
  • Prime95 (SmallFFTs Test) runs for about 3 hours, and an error popups. This is very stable, and in fact you have just entered the what some considered the highest levels of stability. Even though you have had an error, but its very less likely to bring down the system. You have made progress, but still in all honesty, need to up more voltages slightly.
  • Prime95 (SmallFFTs Test) runs for more than 8 hours. This is enough for me to claim stability, BUT its not as long as some people do run it, especially people who Fold/BOINC and need 100% accuracy on their CPU cycles. I encourage letting it run for at least 24 hours, but at this point, I use my own logic/experience. I let it run for 8 hours, and then I know I am going to increase voltage by one or two increments after its done regadless. To account for the unknown stability. It achieves essentially the same stability in less time, for least amount of voltage required (efficient.)

Once the CPU is "stable" then you switch testing to Prime95 Blend if you are about 4GB of RAM, or run CUSTOM for having large amounts of ram 8/12/16/24 GB of RAM (like me) and just increase memory usage to make it 80~90% of your system RAM. This ensures CPU / Communication / System RAM are also error free. I just like Prime95 because I am used to it and its been around almost as long as I have been playing with computers.

This is how I think others should test for stability. I will tell you though A LOT of people on this forum don't do this... I think primarily for either laziness, heat, or just because they don't understand how it works. I also liked to overclock, but I NEED a stable system. Thats whats very important to me. I think that overclocking has gotten so easy that anyone can now go in and just up multipliers without having to struggle with it etc, so there is nothing learned nor anything risked really.

A lot of people also use the excuse "nothing will run your hardware that hard like Prime95 or IBT" and that is not what the programs do. All those programs do is find an error in mathematics. An error or instability can occur under ANY difficulty or stress on the CPU. They illogically think that only stress produces error. This is simply incorrect, and misinformed. It also allows them to continue being lazy, and encourage others to do the same. It actually pisses me off severely. I don't mind people doing what they want with their hardware, but then they are essentially spreading lies to the new guys, who then learn it this way, AND show up months later and their entire computer doesn't boot. Argh... anyways, enough ranting.

I guarantee 50% of the errors on this forum in form of a game crash, driver crash, media crash, or x y z problem occured, is because a lack of proper overclocking testing. One other extremely useful tool is Window's EventViewer, which you can get to by going to Control Panel -> Small Icons (top right) -> Administrator's Tools -> Event Viewer and check out Windows Logs, specifically Applications, Windows, and Setup (if you are installing a program that crashes.)

It gives you the equivalent of the information found in a BSOD for each application crash. What happens though on an unstable system many background services/tasks/file transfers/updates are corrupted by instability giving you absolutely no notice of it. This is how eventually the System goes down. You get enough of these and its bye bye booting. Don't panic if you see errors though, you have to analyze what type of error, if its the same device/same application it maybe a faulty application. Getting errors here though is a good way to know something is not working the way it should, and many average users don't ever peak in here.
Awesome post and very informative! Thanks again for that, it's hugely appreciated.

I must admit, I am very nervous about trying to push for 4.8GHz on my first Overclock, especially considering my huge lack of experience. However - I have found this post by TwoCables, who seems to definitely know his stuff;

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post
I recommend trying these settings and then tweaking forward from there:

Ai Tweaker
  • Ai Overclock Tuner: Manual
  • BLCK/PCIE Frequency: 100.0
  • Turbo Ratio: By All Cores
  • By All Cores: 48
  • Internal PLL Voltage: Disabled
  • Memory Frequency: use the rated speed for your memory
  • DRAM Timing Control: use the rated timings for your memory
  • EPU Power Saving MODE: Disabled


Ai Tweaker\\ CPU Power Management >
  • CPU Ratio: Auto
  • Enhanced Intel SpeedStep Technology: Enabled
  • Turbo Mode: Enabled
  • Long Duration Power Limit: Auto
  • Long Duration Maintained: Auto
  • Short Duration Power Limit: Auto
  • Additional Turbo Voltage: Auto
  • Primary Plane Current Limit: Auto


Ai Tweaker (in the DIGI+ VRM section)
  • Load-Line Calibration: Ultra High
  • VRM Frequency: Manual
  • VRM Fixed Frequency Mode: 350
  • Phase Control: Extreme
  • Duty Control: Extreme
  • CPU Current Capability: 140% (it's supposed to turn red in the UEFI)
  • CPU Voltage: Offset Mode
  • Offset Mode Sign: +
  • CPU Offset Voltage: 0.040V
  • DRAM Voltage: use the rated voltage for your memory
  • VCCSA Voltage: Auto
  • VCCIO Voltage: 1.15625V (using VCCIO Voltages in between 1.100V and 1.200V may help enable you to lower the vCore while maintaining stability)
  • CPU PLL Voltage: Auto
  • PCH Voltage: Auto
  • CPU Spread Spectrum: Enabled


Advanced\\ CPU Configuration >
  • CPU Ratio: Auto
  • Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor: Enabled
  • Active Processor Cores: All
  • Limit CPUID Maximum: Disabled
  • Execute Disable Bit: Enabled
  • Intel Virtualization Technology: Disabled
  • Enhanced Intel SpeedStep Technology: Enabled
  • Turbo Mode: Enabled
  • CPU C1E: Enabled
  • CPU C3 Report: Auto
  • CPU C6 Report: Auto



Note: that Offset Voltage of 0.040V gives me a Core Voltage in CPU-Z of about 1.384V - 1.392V while under full load in Prime95's Blend. So be cautious and adjust accordingly.

If these settings don't work for you, then try an Offset Voltage of 0.045V.
I think I will use this as a starting point. Once I've finished this next GTA IV benchmark I'm going to boot into the BIOS and enter the settings TwoCables provided above, and bump the voltage as necessary to run Prime95 for 2 hours minimum.
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post #1930 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smo View Post
Awesome post and very informative! Thanks again for that, it's hugely appreciated.

I must admit, I am very nervous about trying to push for 4.8GHz on my first Overclock, especially considering my huge lack of experience. However - I have found this post by TwoCables, who seems to definitely know his stuff;

I think I will use this as a starting point. Once I've finished this next GTA IV benchmark I'm going to boot into the BIOS and enter the settings TwoCables provided above, and bump the voltage as necessary to run Prime95 for 2 hours minimum.
I like TwoCables and puts out reliable stuffs/infos. I would say give it a whirl.
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