Originally Posted by MKHunt
I feel these statements are a tad contradictory.
Going from 630 core to 795 gained me ~11fps in Witcher 2, BFBC2, Crysis 2, Deus Ex, Bioshock 2, and Crysis WARHEAD. Real gains went from 8-13, but the average is probably about 11. Gains with MW2 were much more impressive, but since it runs at more than 250fps they were far, far, far beyond useless.
In benches I only saw a 7-8fps gain to be honest.
I don't see this being a real counterpoint to your argument since the only game on that list to run below 60fps was Witcher 2 with ubersampling. I don't know about everyone else but I get so immersed in games that ubersampling doesn't change the experience at all for me besides dropping me to the high 40's and low 50's for framerates so it doesn't really matter that I saw gains.
Also, gains seem to come more easily with higher CPU overclocks. At 4.4GHz my difference OC to stock was <10fps but at 4.6 and up (currently running 4.9) the differences between stock and OC'ed become larger.
tl;dr 10fps gains ARE there on the 590. You just have to work hard for them, have a highly-strung CPU, and they won't make any difference unless you have a true 120Hz display
If you want screenshot proof, fugeddaboutit. I am FAR too lazy and busy with school to detune everything, play a level I've beaten, take screens, retune everything, then repeat. I did that in my argument with Gigabyte and all it did was drain me of many hours of life and got me nowhere in regards to fixing problems.
I'm not communicating what I'm trying to say very well. Because I see what you mean about those statements being contradictory, and yet I'm trying to say essentially the same thing you are in your response.
See, those results are impressive, that's what I'm talking about being down with. Where I see that I am not clarifying really well, is I was comparing the 590 and the 6990/Mars in my head and not the 590 against itself.
Meaning, in the benchmark reviews, even with the overclock, the 6990 was almost always less then a 10fps difference between the cards where the 6990 does come out ahead, even when it's overclocked.
Whereas the 590, brought me a 10fps+ in the Metro 2033 bench just going from the 270-275 series of drivers. But because a 6990 edges out the 590 by such a small difference in FPS, even though your eye most likely won't see the difference (unless it's at the border of being choppy FPS) - It's the "big winner"
But the reviewers that are Overclockers first and gamers second, don't really factor that it's leaf blower loud and there's been a history of bad driver support at AMD, though that seems to be changing. Of course this still applies if the results were flip-flopped. If someone wanted to game with 6 monitors and headphones, then they shouldn't care if the 590 is now out performing the 6990 in many benches.
And now we have the Mars, and the hypocrisy in scores between 7.0 and 9.4 because one overclocks better by %10, is exactly what I mean. There's too much emphasis on overclocking performance and not on the other attributes.
If I was reviewing the Mars card as a gamer, then the Mars score would also have to be graded on real world, gamer applicable qualities. The two biggest one being size and price.
First, this being a 3 slot card, is there even a mobo available that has the room to run two of these in SLI if some Richie-Rich wanted to? If not, then the fact that you're going to be stuck with this one card in your machine should be a factor in the final review score.
The second is price. Being that the suggested MRP is equal to getting two 590's for Quad SLI, should completely be a factor in the card's grading.
But no, because the card comes with true 580 level stock clocks, it gets a 9.4 - Because too much importance is placed on overclockability, rather than all the criteria that someone who is into PC Gaming, only for the games, can make an informed decision on.
That's what I'm trying to say. The fact that people like you are getting such awesome performance increases and this isn't making news in Hardware enthusiast sites, is hypocritical.
I have a feeling that reviewers like W1zzard are too worried that if they go back and take a second look at the 590 and admit they got a little too eager the first time, that they'll lose some kind of credibility, when truthfully, they would actually gain credibility by displaying true objectivity.
So, what I meant to say was, there's was mostly only a less than 10fps difference between the 6990 and 590 with overclocks applied (I'm going off memory, so I may very well be wrong) - And what I was trying to say was, show me an overclock that gives 20-30fps bump of one card over the other 2 out of the top 3 on the market and then you can color me impressed. (You made me see that 10fps is too generous and easy to obtain)
So, If I haven't confused things any further, while I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying to say because I didn't communicate it well - I do concede that when looking at it from your perspective it does seem contradictory. But I forgot to clarify that I meant the 590 vs. 6990/Mars and not against itself - in regards to which one makes the best purchase for the high end gamer.
While I'm pulling internet faux pa's and actually admitting online when I'm wrong, let me really dig into some crow by saying in regards to Deus EX:HR -
Rush and Masked were totally right and I was wrong about the "Micro-Tearing".
My buddy is getting the same thing on his new HP laptop that uses AMD's crossfire (In the same way Nvidia applies Optimus in their notebooks) to switch between his notebook's 6750m and the intergrated GPU.
Only enabling Vsync gets rid of this.
Also now that I'm deep into the game, my GPU usage and FPS are now all over the place too. Anywhere from 50fps for a milli-second, then all the way back up 120fps before u know it.
So, I'm pretty confident this is the game's optimization/coding rather than any of us having issues with our 590's and rigs.
If I was getting these FPS in a competitive MP game, I'd be pissed. But since I'm playing a SP game for the story and everything is fluid for the most part, I don't mind.
I still fracking love these cards. I love them so much, my wife is starting to get jealous.
Although, I'm sure it's probably not the case, I'm justifying to myself to buy a couple of SSD's to see if that helps with any of the Microstutter. One for my OS and one to run games off of. Of course, I know it probably won't help much, but I just really want one.
Anyone know if there's a certain brand or model that's really good for games? Similar to how WD Velociraptor HD is designed with games in mind?
Sorry for the long post. I wasn't planning on writing a book.
Good Times...Edited by Shinobi Jedi - 8/30/11 at 10:28pm