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post #3061 of 5154
I hope you get everything sorted MK.

On my side, lately i've been having these weird dips while folding. Previously i had 99% usage on both cores and lately (i think since my system locked-up a few days ago), core0 is dipping like crazy. I hope the card is not damaged.

179

86

What would be causing this all of a sudden? I haven't really run anything else since the crash. Over this weekend i'll do some more testing.
Edited by CJL - 11/19/11 at 8:57am
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post #3062 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHunt View Post

The $30-40 guy was going to do the work on company machines at severely reduced cost and mark it as something he had done for himself. He was gone when I showed up, so rather than having me leave my number they just got the VP of the company to deal with it and, of course, he wanted to do everything through the company itself. If I show up againand ask for the other guy after the VP referred me to another shop (which was cheaper, but wanted $130 just to set up the machinery since he only had CNC) because it was too expensive. Since that guy basically offered to cheat the company to help me out, I don't want to risk him getting in trouble.

That's considerate of you. It wouldn't hurt to somehow get your contact's direct line, maybe he can still help you out.
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post #3063 of 5154
I am building a new computer and am trying to decide between two or three 580's or one or two 590's. I only use one monitor, a Dell U2711 with 2560 x 1440 resolution but want to play games at max settings. How would two 580's compare to one 590 in performance? How about 3 or 4 580's compared to two 590's in performance? My monitor had displayport, any advantage that the 590 has mini displayport output or should DVI work just fine with my monitor? Ordered Asus Rampage IV Extreme X79 motherboard a few days ago in case the motherboard I am using has any impact on what video cards I should use.

Thanks in advance for the help!
post #3064 of 5154
I would think you're going to want to go with a 580 card that has 3gb of VRam to play at that resolution. (Not the 590 3gb, which is really 1.5gb mirrored on the 590)

Maybe even two, if you have the coin. 590 is great for 1920x1080 120hz/3D displays if you're a heavy FPS player who wants 120fps/120hz smooth butter like experience.

But for higher resolutions, you want at card that has 3gb VRAM.
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post #3065 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHunt View Post

In SLI and CrossFire VRAM is mirrored, not shared. Each GPU stores the same information as all the other GPUs so you have 1.5GB VRAM effective total.

Wow really? That makes no software architectural sense! If you take four frames, and each of the four GPUs compute one frame, why then would GPU 1 reserve memory not only on MEM1, but also MEM2, MEM3, and MEM4? Why would GPU 2 need any references from GPU 1's frame in the memory space? That's just weird.

UNLESS, all 4 GPUs just use one memory set from one of the GPUs. Then that would make sense (but still super inefficient). But if all four GPUs have the *ability* to access their own memory set (1.5GB), it just makes no sense to replicate the memory allocation on all four sets (replication is both expensive and completely unnecessary unless you're working with critical transactions).

Maybe I need to read an SLI white paper to fully understand how SLI's load distribution is implemented. If my logic is incorrect, then by all means someone please educate me.
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post #3066 of 5154
So I ran some Single Player experiments and it's conclusive that VRAM is maxed at Ultra Settings Preset @ 2560x1600. The three biggest suspects are:
1) Resolution
2) MSAA
3) Ambient Occlusion

It's a zero sum game with those three settings - if you want MSAA, you need to lower your resolution and/or ambient occlusion. If you want Resolution, then you need to crank down your MSAA or ambient occlusion. The biggest factor, just as in [H]'s BF3 performance review is MSAA. VERY VRAM expensive.

So now the issue is: Memory Management. Can NVidia optimize memory management by clearing the addresses of ALL immediate unused references to make room for the next frame? Can 4 GPUs help make that process go faster? One would think so.

Here were my results (VRAM was taken as a rough average)

SINGLE PLAYER VRAM EXPERIMENT

Swordbreaker - APC and Sniper Scene - 4x MSAA + HIGH FXAA - LOW SETTINGS (max motion blur + VSync ON)
SMOOTH at no drops below 60FPS
MEM1: 1360
MEM2: 1360
MEM3: 1360
MEM4: 1360

Swordbreaker - APC and Sniper Scene - 4x MSAA + HIGH FXAA - MEDIUM SETTINGS (max motion blur + VSync ON)
SMOOTH at no drops below 60FPS
MEM1: 1405
MEM2: 1405
MEM3: 1405
MEM4: 1405

Swordbreaker - APC and Sniper Scene - 4x MSAA + HIGH FXAA - HIGH SETTINGS (max motion blur + VSync ON)
VERY LAGGY not playable. VRAM is maxed. ~23FPS
MEM1: 1525
MEM2: 1525
MEM3: 1525
MEM4: 1525

Swordbreaker - APC deployment and Sniper Scene - 4x MSAA + HIGH FXAA - ULTRA (max motion blur + VSync ON)
VERY LAGGY not playable. VRAM is maxed. ~23FPS
MEM1: 1530
MEM2: 1530
MEM3: 1530
MEM4: 1530

Swordbreaker - APC and Sniper Scene - 2x MSAA + HIGH FXAA - ULTRA SETTINGS (max motion blur + VSync ON)
SMOOTH at no drops below 60FPS
MEM1: 1400
MEM2: 1400
MEM3: 1400
MEM4: 1400

Swordbreaker - APC and Sniper Scene - NO MSAA + HIGH FXAA - ULTRA SETTINGS (max motion blur + VSync ON)
SMOOTH at no drops below 60FPS
MEM1: 1360
MEM2: 1360
MEM3: 1360
MEM4: 1360
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post #3067 of 5154
Okay, after some SLI technology research, I've concluded these points:

1) SLI works as a master / slave pattern. The master sends frames ( or part of a frame depending on if you're using split or alternate methods ) to the slaves to render. When the slaves are finished rendering the frames, it then sends the results back to the master, the master then sorts everything out and outputs it to the screen, and then the process repeats. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface

2) According to NVidia, each GPU manages it's own frame buffer memory (VRAM). There really is no "mirroring" ( as mirroring implies replication - which would be ridiculous ). So GPU1 uses MEM1, GPU2 uses MEM2, GPU3 uses MEM3, GPU4 uses MEM4, and so on. MEM1 does not replicate or mirror across MEM2, MEM3, and MEM4. That wouldn't make sense. http://www.slizone.com/page/slizone_faq.html#c26

So if QUAD SLI cannot smoothly run BF3 @ 2560 x 1600 at Ultra Settings Preset at the native 60Hz refresh rate ( constant 60FPS ), what it means is 1 GPU with a 1.5GB frame memory buffer is struggling to render @ an effective 15FPS.
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post #3068 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpongin View Post

Okay, after some SLI technology research, I've concluded these points:
1) SLI works as a master / slave pattern. The master sends frames ( or part of a frame depending on if you're using split or alternate methods ) to the slaves to render. When the slaves are finished rendering the frames, it then sends the results back to the master, the master then sorts everything out and outputs it to the screen, and then the process repeats. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface
2) According to NVidia, each GPU manages it's own frame buffer memory (VRAM). There really is no "mirroring" ( as mirroring implies replication - which would be ridiculous ). So GPU1 uses MEM1, GPU2 uses MEM2, GPU3 uses MEM3, GPU4 uses MEM4, and so on. MEM1 does not replicate or mirror across MEM2, MEM3, and MEM4. That wouldn't make sense. http://www.slizone.com/page/slizone_faq.html#c26
So if QUAD SLI cannot smoothly run BF3 @ 2560 x 1600 at Ultra Settings Preset at the native 60Hz refresh rate ( constant 60FPS ), what it means is 1 GPU with a 1.5GB frame memory buffer is struggling to render @ an effective 15FPS.

1) No.

There is no master/slave...It's purely a gap of communication.

I've made my own custom drivers forever and there is no primary GPU...Sometimes GPU 2 is the first to respond and sometimes GPU 1 is...That's why there are Vsync issues and lag//tessellation...

It's merely the time it takes to communicate from 1 to the other, that's it, that simple.

In a dual core card, that lane is pipe-lined thus it's faster but, power etc is slaved so you come out with a compromise.

The compromise on the 590 is that you lose Vram.

2) Of course there's no mirroring...It's actually more of a sharing process...Each group is assigned a module and is streamlined to that module.

~
It's not a question that the cores work better on dual core cards...The issue is merely one of your limitations.

You CANNOT smoothly run 1.5gb at that resolution, REGARDLESS of the card...It's just not happening.

I'd suggest 2x or 3x 580 3gb's ~

The buffer is literally 1750 ~ The 590's JUST fall short...Not really anything you can do about it other than work around it.
Edited by Masked - 11/19/11 at 7:00pm
post #3069 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

1) No.
There is no master/slave...It's purely a gap of communication.
I've made my own custom drivers forever and there is no primary GPU...Sometimes GPU 2 is the first to respond and sometimes GPU 1 is...That's why there are Vsync issues and lag//tessellation...
It's merely the time it takes to communicate from 1 to the other, that's it, that simple.
In a dual core card, that lane is pipe-lined thus it's faster but, power etc is slaved so you come out with a compromise.
The compromise on the 590 is that you lose Vram.
2) Of course there's no mirroring...It's actually more of a sharing process...Each group is assigned a module and is streamlined to that module.
~
It's not a question that the cores work better on dual core cards...The issue is merely one of your limitations.
You CANNOT smoothly run 1.5gb at that resolution, REGARDLESS of the card...It's just not happening.
I'd suggest 2x or 3x 580 3gb's ~
The buffer is literally 1750 ~ The 590's JUST fall short...Not really anything you can do about it other than work around it.

1) I should have been more clear. What I meant is that there is some type of logic which is controlling the traffic and frame sorting before it's ultimately output through the "master". That stuff doesn't "just happen". Example, if I have one monitor, and it's connected through one cable, and I use Quad SLI, there MUST be some logic to output frames through that one connection. It doesn't "just happen". In that sense, that logic or controller of that particular gateway is acting as the master as the slaves route their rendered frames through it. Now if I'm completely wrong then correct me again, and if there is absolutely no master gateway from which the frames are sorted and ultimately sent through that single cable to the monitor, then how does it "just happen"? Perhaps there is some lower level logic than the API's NVidia offers to write drivers. But if not, I find it hard to believe it's just magic.

2) I agree. 1.5GB VRAM is not enough to buffer 15FPS (which is the minimum needed to hit 60FPS in quad SLI) for 1 GPU for BF3 at those settings. Every experiment leads me to that conclusion. If I go 2x 580 3GBs, then that would mean each GPU would need to render at minimum 30FPS. In addition at 3x (tri SLI), each GPU would need to handle at minimum 20FPS.
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post #3070 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJL View Post

I hope you get everything sorted MK.
On my side, lately i've been having these weird dips while folding. Previously i had 99% usage on both cores and lately (i think since my system locked-up a few days ago), core0 is dipping like crazy. I hope the card is not damaged.
179
86
What would be causing this all of a sudden? I haven't really run anything else since the crash. Over this weekend i'll do some more testing.

i had same problem as a sign of unstable OC. now running 670@0.963v (0.975v monitored) and having 98-99% always. and one more thing - you can have higher ppd by adding "extra_parms=-advmethods"
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