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post #3211 of 5137
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzinti1 View Post



Thanks Juggalo! Here are the numbers of the posts in this thread that got me all confused: Posts #3184-#3187 and post #3190.
If EVGA used different parts of different sizes then isn't that the same as a different revision? These people said they had difficulties in getting their waterblocks to fit properly and that is the basis of my concern about my own videocard and the AlphaCool NexXxoS that I want to use. http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_971_240_580&products_id=32269
As I said earlier, I'd rather avoid EKWaterblocks because of their accusations against SidewindersPC and especially Petra's, for accusing their PT Nuke biocide for causing the erosion of the electroplating on EK's blocks, when, in fact, it was the poor electroplating of EK themselves that was the actual problem. I just can't put up with a manufacturer that blames innocent companies for EKWaterblocks own faults.
Thanks again.

AlphaCool was not a company I contacted when searching for blocks with inductor area clearance so I cannot confirm. Telling if your card has the new components or old is really simple. Just look straight down through the fan blades. Can you see square parts? Do they have a big "C" on them? If so, you have the model with the updated inductors. For reference, here's a picture showing them.
The inductors are the five 'cubes' inward of the capacitors and PWM MOSFETs. There is a row of five directly to the left of the purple-topped capacitor.
jV70PmLVeiY7m.JPG

The only company I received confirmation of fitment from was EK. Koolance said that nobody has ever said that their Rev 1.1 block hasn't fit, but did not confirm that they had been made aware of the taller inductors and had revised the block for those. However I suspect that's exactly what happened. On the models with the original inductors, you cannot see them through the fan blades. With the new inductors came an entirely new heatsink base-plate design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Okay, since I happen to know the details about this, I'll answer.
There was, is no, and has never been an "official" revision of this card and the PCB has never been revised.
What's that mean? According to anyone you ask, there has never been a revision.
What Nvidia does, frequently, actually...Is they'll occasionally fix an "issue" on the line and that's that.
In the situation of the 590, it looks as if that half way through the second run, they "upgraded" some of the core components.
Now if you know anything about EE, it's not really an upgrade it's more/less changing a pathway.
In no way is this a revision and in no way does this change the performance of the card.
What it DID do is change the height of some of the components by .5mm ~ This throws off any waterblock because like I said, there's never been an official revision.
Now, there are a couple brands that actually revised their blocks upon noticing that a "change" had been made and made the necessary changes.
It's best if you plan on using water, to check with the MFCTR and make sure your block will fit.

Well, the italicized part isn't that true. In no way whatsoever did this change a pathway. If a pathway were changed, a new PCB design would be required since the copper traces are what determine the pathing. Changing inductors for beefier models (what nvidia did in this case) is like changing a resistor. No pathways were altered, merely a better quality component put in the old one's place. Many people were complaining about an inadequate VRM scheme (wrongly) when all but one documented failure has been a resistor or capacitor. The failure where the VRM MOSFET blew, however, was after the reviewer bypassed a fail-safe resistor on the input line then overvolted. The MOSFETs themselves aren't a problem though. They're rated for an average current of 12V and 35A (per datasheet) each. The previous inductors were rated for about half the amperage of the current inductors. I'm not sure what nvidia's logic behind changing them was.

In everyday usage, the card is no different. What you get, however, are components that run cooler and have a higher tolerance for heat and voltage. The chance of having cards with coil whine (inductors = coils) is also lower though, in no way, eliminated. Really what the inductors do is protect the silicon; which is why I am a tad confused why they felt they needed to be beefed-up.


I have read SO MANY datasheets for parts on this card. I don't particularly enjoy thinking about how many hours/days were put into that research.

ETA: This WB also just looks so good. I'm a chump for aesthetics, and this delivers.

jbt15c7Jl2nmlb.JPG
Edited by MKHunt - 12/10/11 at 6:55pm
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post #3212 of 5137
Still awaiting your results, MKHunt biggrin.gif
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post #3213 of 5137
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHunt View Post

ETA: This WB also just looks so good. I'm a chump for aesthetics, and this delivers.
jbt15c7Jl2nmlb.JPG

I have to agree Hunt. Best looking waterblock for the 590 by far. After the new year I'm going to order one for my 590 biggrin.gif

Make my card look beast.
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post #3214 of 5137
@Mk

They told us it was for a "VRM Pathway" according to our email...I had to basically gauge for a week to even get that.

I do understand that may not be what happened...Could pull out 5 revisions from the 480 series just to prove that one (Haha)

That's interesting though because I thought if you changed a pathway (I.E. order) that the entire PCB didn't need to be changed just the core lanes? No?

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post #3215 of 5137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

@Mk
They told us it was for a "VRM Pathway" according to our email...I had to basically gauge for a week to even get that.
I do understand that may not be what happened...Could pull out 5 revisions from the 480 series just to prove that one (Haha)
That's interesting though because I thought if you changed a pathway (I.E. order) that the entire PCB didn't need to be changed just the core lanes? No?
Learn something new every day.

Oh man that is truly ambiguous! XD They may have changed something before the MOSFET/Inductor area. That, I'll never know because the traces are way too fine for me to easily follow by eye and nvidia will never release a nice circuitry diagram tongue.gif Of course, you could also read it as, "the new inductors are for a VRM pathway." Which is true. It would be about like saying "the knife by the bananas is for the bananas." If you got it from nvidia themselves, there could be some translation fog about as well.

I help correct translations for a friend high up in a clothing mfg company based in Japan (Descente) and I've noticed that he likes to omit some words that designate purpose. No idea if Chinese (IIRC they speak Chinese on Taiwan?) is the same. English over there is taught by correlating it to native grammar(CN, JP, KR) rather than reteaching the English grammar itself which is where we get Engrish from! biggrin.gif

However I can say with certainty that the MOSFET/Inductor area is pretty much unchanged except for a component swap. For all I know, nvidia may have lost the original inductor manufacturer to a secret alien attack. thumb.gif
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post #3216 of 5137
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHunt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kzinti1 View Post



Thanks Juggalo! Here are the numbers of the posts in this thread that got me all confused: Posts #3184-#3187 and post #3190.
If EVGA used different parts of different sizes then isn't that the same as a different revision? These people said they had difficulties in getting their waterblocks to fit properly and that is the basis of my concern about my own videocard and the AlphaCool NexXxoS that I want to use. http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_971_240_580&products_id=32269
As I said earlier, I'd rather avoid EKWaterblocks because of their accusations against SidewindersPC and especially Petra's, for accusing their PT Nuke biocide for causing the erosion of the electroplating on EK's blocks, when, in fact, it was the poor electroplating of EK themselves that was the actual problem. I just can't put up with a manufacturer that blames innocent companies for EKWaterblocks own faults.
Thanks again.

AlphaCool was not a company I contacted when searching for blocks with inductor area clearance so I cannot confirm. Telling if your card has the new components or old is really simple. Just look straight down through the fan blades. Can you see square parts? Do they have a big "C" on them? If so, you have the model with the updated inductors. For reference, here's a picture showing them.
The inductors are the five 'cubes' inward of the capacitors and PWM MOSFETs. There is a row of five directly to the left of the purple-topped capacitor.
jV70PmLVeiY7m.JPG

The only company I received confirmation of fitment from was EK. Koolance said that nobody has ever said that their Rev 1.1 block hasn't fit, but did not confirm that they had been made aware of the taller inductors and had revised the block for those. However I suspect that's exactly what happened. On the models with the original inductors, you cannot see them through the fan blades. With the new inductors came an entirely new heatsink base-plate design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Okay, since I happen to know the details about this, I'll answer.
There was, is no, and has never been an "official" revision of this card and the PCB has never been revised.
What's that mean? According to anyone you ask, there has never been a revision.
What Nvidia does, frequently, actually...Is they'll occasionally fix an "issue" on the line and that's that.
In the situation of the 590, it looks as if that half way through the second run, they "upgraded" some of the core components.
Now if you know anything about EE, it's not really an upgrade it's more/less changing a pathway.
In no way is this a revision and in no way does this change the performance of the card.
What it DID do is change the height of some of the components by .5mm ~ This throws off any waterblock because like I said, there's never been an official revision.
Now, there are a couple brands that actually revised their blocks upon noticing that a "change" had been made and made the necessary changes.
It's best if you plan on using water, to check with the MFCTR and make sure your block will fit.

Well, the italicized part isn't that true. In no way whatsoever did this change a pathway. If a pathway were changed, a new PCB design would be required since the copper traces are what determine the pathing. Changing inductors for beefier models (what nvidia did in this case) is like changing a resistor. No pathways were altered, merely a better quality component put in the old one's place. Many people were complaining about an inadequate VRM scheme (wrongly) when all but one documented failure has been a resistor or capacitor. The failure where the VRM MOSFET blew, however, was after the reviewer bypassed a fail-safe resistor on the input line then overvolted. The MOSFETs themselves aren't a problem though. They're rated for an average current of 12V and 35A (per datasheet) each. The previous inductors were rated for about half the amperage of the current inductors. I'm not sure what nvidia's logic behind changing them was.

In everyday usage, the card is no different. What you get, however, are components that run cooler and have a higher tolerance for heat and voltage. The chance of having cards with coil whine (inductors = coils) is also lower though, in no way, eliminated. Really what the inductors do is protect the silicon; which is why I am a tad confused why they felt they needed to be beefed-up.


I have read SO MANY datasheets for parts on this card. I don't particularly enjoy thinking about how many hours/days were put into that research.

ETA: This WB also just looks so good. I'm a chump for aesthetics, and this delivers.

jbt15c7Jl2nmlb.JPG
 

Thank you MKHunt! That's exactly what I needed. It looks like I'll have to go with EKWaterblocks anyway. Plus an EK backplate.

Your post and pics should be posted somewhere in the Watercooling section of OCN and every other Forum that addresses the watercooling public on the web. Maybe then, ALL manufacturers will revise their blocks so none of us GTX590 owners will put their cards at risk from trying to install an improper waterblock again.

Then again, since vga blocks cannot be returned after they're removed from their packaging, the manufacturers have no incentive to fix this problem. They'll still get their money. They don't have to worry about repeat business because there are so few people that make these things, if they lose one customer another 3 will have already bought from them. That's one helluva vicious circle.

Thanks again. You've given me the best help I've asked for in a long time.
BTW, as far as I'm concerned, any change whatsoever done to a reference product is a new revision. Whether it's marked as a new revision or not. And it damned well should be marked that way.
 

 

 

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post #3217 of 5137
Glad I could help. Oh and as a note to EKWB users with the newer 590s, try putting a .5mm thermal pad on your NF200 chip. When observing dry fitting I can see a thin gap of empty space between the NF200 and the WB. EK recommends using TIM there, but I don't particularly believe that a super thick layer of TIM will work quite as well as a nicely compressed thermal pad. TIM is meant to fill microscopic gaps, not bridge sections of open air. I don't really know how much heat that chip even generates, but it seems safer to make sure it has a well-established escape-route. The only TIMs I would consider acceptable in this situation are Shin-Etsu or ICD, but would still prefer a thermal pad.

I'll work on figuring out how much space is between the inductor tops and water block so I can know how much pad to put up there (instructions don't even say to put thermal material on them). EK also says to put a small blob of TIM on each PWM mosfet then add thermal pad. Everywhere I've read says not to do thermal padding and TIM, so if anyone more in the know with that stuff can advise, I'd appreciate it. My old KL block used pads with no thermal paste, so if nobody can answer definitively, that's what I'll probably do.
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post #3218 of 5137
Wow, EK played it super safe. There's about 1.2mm of space between the top of the new inductors and the WB. If you choose to cool them, I would suggest either 1.0mm thermal pad and TIM (between pad and block) or maybe a 1.5mm pad, though that might throw the NF200 chip a little further from the block. All depends how squishy/stretchy your pads are.

Personally, I'm going to use the pink (1.0mm) Koolance pads and thermal paste on the pink side. It'll still save paste compared to EK instructions since I'm going to cut up some toothpicks to hold the spacers in place rather than waste TIM.
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post #3219 of 5137
I installed an EK Waterblock to my GTX590 Classified only last week, worked great. The NF200 chip touches the waterblock just fine with a small dab of thermal paste. Besides, im not worried too much about that chip. VRMS, Memory and GPU's are what matter most. thumb.gif Check out my build log in my sig if you're interested in some pictures thumb.gif
post #3220 of 5137
glad you all came to the EKWB in the end =)
used them for 3-4 months already and have to say that the only problem is hot backplate.
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