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NVIDIA GTX 590 Owners Club - Page 355

post #3541 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

I'm more than likely selling my last 590 HC which, actually has the overnight ARMA...If anyone is interested, PM me.
That being said, many people have asked me why there is a love/hate relationship with this card and I'll answer that publicly.
I'm very, very, intimate with the 590 because we had an exclusive for the Auroras so, quite frankly, I know much more than I should and/or would like to.
The love/hate stems mostly from Nvidia's stance on the card, itself.
When the card was initially released, it did surpass the 6990 in practically every aspect, un-optimized, because even capped, that's what it's capable of doing.
Some say it's 2x 570's...Which NOW that the 570 has been optimized as much as it has (Over 60% performance gain since launch) is true but, it wasn't on release...Far from the truth at release. In fact, on the day of release (I remember this because our UPS guy showed up at 6:15 that morning with our stock and I almost peed myself) it crushed the 570's in SLI and even rivaled the 580's in SLI (Was JUST tied)...Surpassed the 6990 in nearly every game/real-world aspect and at the end of the day, was a good buy for 700$.
The 590, as Nvidia would have you believe, is the perfect card...There are no issues, no voltages locks, no overclocking problems...The card is absolutely perfect...THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
You as the end user CAN optimize the card (In which it actually becomes 2x580's slightly OC'd) but, the amount of work to do so just, isn't worth the end result because you still lack a driver profile. Still, it can be done and this is of note, the card CAN be taken far beyond 2 OC'd 570's.
From a tech standpoint, the card is a dream for what it is...It's easily streamlined, the heat is less than 2 580's; it disspates easily and has relatively no driver issues, far be it from the performance drivers...Still no REAL issues.
I, as a tech/admin/whatever, love this card because it's simple, it runs cool and it gets by...Others, have issue because it doesn't do what it promised and I absolutely agree.
So the love is from the card itself and what some of us see it as...The hate stems from Nvidia, themselves and their overall apathy towards a good design.

That's really interesting Masked, and makes a lot of sense.

I also wonder if the misbegotten press the card got in the beginning due to the reviewers ineptitude possibly scared Nvidia off from developing/optimizing the card the way they do with others?

The unfortunate thing is, while the usual move would be to switch over to AMD, there seems to be just as many prevalent issues on their end as well.

It feels a little like the U.S. political system. It doesn't matter if you go Democrat or Republican, you're fracked either way.

Kinda makes one wish for a 3rd GPU manufacturer to add some competition and get these two off their asses.

Nvidia does seem, going by the media, to be a little too focused on Tegra and leaving their high end customers hanging.

Masked, If you move your 590 Hydro before Kepler comes out, what are you going to use in the meantime?

Other than driver installation hassles, I have no problem with AMD. If their cards merit exploration over Nvidia's offerings, I'm open to them.

Here's to hoping the new beta driver somehow fixes performance in SWTOR. I can't play the game in SLI without bad crashes that need a whole restart, or, it always crashes to desktop when playing through a single GPU.
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The Omni
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post #3542 of 5154
I got jelly of wogga's 2133 + 590 combo... so I got some of my own.

Of course with a nice 590 in the picture too.

j3gP4JtS5CxRo.JPG

Can the thread really have too many 590 pics? I think no.

Oh and sweet sweet low volts
j5DLbKXZdJnX3.PNG
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post #3543 of 5154
nice!
btw mine are stable only at 2133@~1.69v
so i have to be jealous now biggrin.gif
post #3544 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

In fact, on the day of release (I remember this because our UPS guy showed up at 6:15 that morning with our stock and I almost peed myself) it crushed the 570's in SLI and even rivaled the 580's in SLI (Was JUST tied)...Surpassed the 6990 in nearly every game/real-world aspect and at the end of the day, was a good buy for 700$.
Hows that?
It's essentially two heavily underclocked 580's, how would it tie two regular 580s then? That just doesnt make sense.
In fact, in every launch review I have seen the car performed even slightly below two 570's (~5%) if it wasnt for some insane triple monitor 5760x1080 resolutions where the 570's would hit VRAM limit earlier and fall behind by a small margin.

Also, the 6990 has always been faster by a small bit in the majority of games ever since the release of the 590...

Quote:
From a tech standpoint, the card is a dream for what it is...It's easily streamlined, the heat is less than 2 580's; it disspates easily and has relatively no driver issues, far be it from the performance drivers...Still no REAL issues.
I, as a tech/admin/whatever, love this card because it's simple, it runs cool and it gets by...Others, have issue because it doesn't do what it promised and I absolutely agree.
So the love is from the card itself and what some of us see it as...The hate stems from Nvidia, themselves and their overall apathy towards a good design.
Thats true.
It produces way less heat than a respectively comparable SLI system and has an outstanding cooling solution on top of that.
In the guru3d review it pulled 70Watts less than a GTX 570 SLI setup which is amazing.
I myself reach temperatures of 72°C - 76°C at load with the stock fan using a custom fan profile @ 70%, it's outragous. Even stock 560 Ti's will have a hard time matching these values. (yeah I know it will seem very high for you watercooling gurus but from a stock cooler perspective
Edited by toX0rz - 2/1/12 at 6:37am
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post #3545 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by toX0rz View Post

Hows that?
It's essentially two heavily underclocked 580's, how would it rival two regular 580s then?
In fact, in every launch review I have seen the car performed even slightly below two 570's (~5%) if it wasnt for some insane triple monitor 5760x1080 resolutions where the 570's would hit VRAM limit earlier.
Is there any evidence of the 590 beating two 570s? I haven seen it. (Im talking stock clocks)
Thats true.
It produces way less heat than a respectively comparable SLI system and has an outstanding cooling solution on top of that.
In the guru3d review it pulled 70Watts less than a GTX 570 SLI setup which is amazing.
I myself reach temperatures of 72°C - 76°C at load with the stock fan using a custom fan profile @ 70%, it's outragous. Even stock 560 Ti's will have a hard time matching these values.

You forget that for the first 2 weeks post release the card was not only over-clockable but, performed well at 850mhz.

In fact, all mine were clocked at 850-900mhz and HANDILY beat the 6990's and all 570's in the office.

I believe in the first @ 15 pages you'll see my original stats and that of others.

Reviewers within the first 2 weeks, took the cards overboard and thus, not only the discrepancy but, the "false positives".

In fact, post-driver-locking, you'll see Hard's review actually surpasses the 570's in SLI.

As I stated before, ON RELEASE, which means pre-optimization, the 590 STRONGLY beat the 570's...

I don't know what's so complicated to understand here...

The 590 has seen 0 optimization since release, in fact the first update, arguably since the voltage lock, occurred yesterday...

The 570 has seen 6 optimized driver releases increasing it's overall performance by about 60%.

Am I speaking Greek or something?

It's because the 590 is apparently "perfect" that there has not been ANY optimization for the card itself...It's arguably the same it has been since 2 weeks after release...Not 1 SINGLE performance update.

So of course 570's in SLI NOW handily beat the card...However, on RELEASE when the 570 had no optimization, the 590 was the king.

When unlocking this card and taking it to 900mhz, it actually even beat the 580's in SLI ~ I believe Guru originally did that review but, it was archived a while back -- Anyone who is familiar with this review would agree.

There is a total LACK of support with this card and personally, I feel that's disgusting and the primary problem.

Had we still been able to take this card to 900mhz, we honestly wouldn't be having this conversation because the 590's dominance over even OC'd 570's would be beyond reproach...It still is actually.

As I stated before, if you go above and beyond, unlock the card and take it to 900mhz; write your own driver profile etc...It handily beats 570's OC'd ~ Evidence of this is RaginCain's thread/OC results...

I find it a little ridiculous that whenever this subject comes up, you come at me guns blazing when the facts have been out for over a year...Hell, I bet my 10 year old cousin could point out how optimized the 570 has become since launch compared to the 590.

I genuinely don't understand where the lack of comprehension here is...Shall I publish a paper on the 590 to formally get the above recognized or are we good with simple facts you can google?

I'm not attacking you, I genuinely don't understand or comprehend where the issue is...
Edited by Masked - 2/1/12 at 6:55am
post #3546 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

You forget that for the first 2 weeks post release the card was not only over-clockable but, performed well at 850mhz.
In fact, all mine were clocked at 850-900mhz and HANDILY beat the 6990's and all 570's in the office.
I believe in the first @ 15 pages you'll see my original stats and that of others.
Reviewers within the first 2 weeks, took the cards overboard and thus, not only the discrepancy but, the "false positives".
In fact, post-driver-locking, you'll see Hard's review actually surpasses the 570's in SLI.
As I stated before, ON RELEASE, which means pre-optimization, the 590 STRONGLY beat the 570's...
I don't know what's so complicated to understand here...
The 590 has seen 0 optimization since release, in fact the first update, arguably since the voltage lock, occurred yesterday...
The 570 has seen 6 optimized driver releases increasing it's overall performance by about 60%.
Am I speaking Greek or something?
It's because the 590 is apparently "perfect" that there has not been ANY optimization for the card itself...It's arguably the same it has been since 2 weeks after release...Not 1 SINGLE performance update.
So of course 570's in SLI NOW handily beat the card...However, on RELEASE when the 570 had no optimization, the 590 was the king.
When unlocking this card and taking it to 900mhz, it actually even beat the 580's in SLI ~ I believe Guru originally did that review but, it was archived a while back -- Anyone who is familiar with this review would agree.
There is a total LACK of support with this card and personally, I feel that's disgusting and the primary problem.
Had we still been able to take this card to 900mhz, we honestly wouldn't be having this conversation because the 590's dominance over even OC'd 570's would be beyond reproach...It still is actually.
As I stated before, if you go above and beyond, unlock the card and take it to 900mhz; write your own driver profile etc...It handily beats 570's OC'd ~ Evidence of this is RaginCain's thread/OC results...
I find it a little ridiculous that whenever this subject comes up, you come at me guns blazing when the facts have been out for over a year...Hell, I bet my 10 year old cousin could point out how optimized the 570 has become since launch compared to the 590.
I genuinely don't understand where the lack of comprehension here is...Shall I publish a paper on the 590 to formally get the above recognized or are we good with simple facts you can google?

I did get you hence why i specifically said launch review as in review on release date.
I also mentioned that im talking stock clocks and not about OC comparisons.

And yes, even in the HardOCP review it did perform just as good and even worse than GTX 570 SLI.
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Obviously OC'd it would look different, then again i didnt expect it could run 900MHz with the weak power circuit on this card. Was it a stable overclock that you used 24/7 ?
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post #3547 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by toX0rz View Post

I did get you hence why i specifically said launch review as in review on release date.
I also mentioned that im talking stock clocks and not about OC comparisons.
And yes, even in the HardOCP review it did perform just as good and even worse than GTX 570 SLI.
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Obviously OC'd it would look different, then again i didnt expect it could run 900MHz with the weak power circuit on this card. Was it a stable overclock that you used 24/7 ?

At 1.0v the card, itself; is actually very stable.

Again, I didn't mean to insult you in my previous post, I just don't understand where the disconnect is/was.

When hard did their review, the card had already been driver locked from a manufacturer standpoint, thus why I cited Guru...Guru OC'd their's and I believe it even won editor's choice? ~ I have so much going on right now, that fact is very fuzzy...But, I do remember the release reviews being better than hard's.

The issue is that there are a plethora of just bad reviews...Reviews that didn't take the original specs into consideration and/or they blew up the card...Most of them you'll find, blew up the card.

The 590, itself, performs WELL at 1.0v; very well, in fact...And I know Cain had his above 800mhz, mine ran spectacularly at 900mhz...

Hell, they actually RELEASED at stock 700mhz...It was only after the "disaster" of Sweclockers and others was an IMMEDIATE (I mean overnight) driver put out that not only locked the card, but they actually changed the boxes on the following runs to reflect the new clock speeds.

This is why EVGA's boxes feature no actual literature.

The problem, as I stated, in Greek -- Is that the 570, even by that time, had 2 MAJOR optimizations...Those reviews are done just after the 570 received it's 2nd update.

You have to remember that the 570 was released in December and the 590, March. (Almost April)

That discrepancy is what gives the 570 the edge -- If you kick back the 570 to release, the 590 does easily defeat it...Again, just semantics.

This is bottom line semantics...Clock for clock, CURRENTLY, they're tied. That I will absolutely agree with...Right now, they're tied.

If the 590 had seen the same attention the 570 did, the 590, just based on historic Nvidia optimization, would be about 40-50% of what it currently is...Which, you, yourself can actually accomplish...Only, it's an incredible amount of work.

I write our mobile drivers on occasion (You'll find several custom AW drivers out there) and it's an absolute nightmare to address the BSOD and base issues but, again, it is possible.

I believe the issue lies with the card being a limited edition...It's perfect and there just aren't enough of us to justify the manpower to actually address our issues.

Like I said, love/hate ~~ We love it because of how simple integration is and how little problems there are...We hate it because we know what it can be and Nvidia will never take it there.

Edit:

The VRM's aren't actually weak at all...They're the highest quality VRM's that a board company has ever used...The issue lies in the delivery and only the delivery.

The caps/lanes could not handle the load and thus they "blow out" at nearly the same location, every time...The lowest-2nd core based cap and/or the physical casing itself, because the load is in such excess, it actually back-feeds.
Edited by Masked - 2/1/12 at 7:29am
post #3548 of 5154
Could someone recommend me a cooler for my 590?

not water cooling as its very tough to find around here. and very expensive.
post #3549 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by iARDAs View Post

Could someone recommend me a cooler for my 590?
not water cooling as its very tough to find around here. and very expensive.

There are no real aftermarket air coolers for the 590.

I'm sure there are 1 or 2 but, the only real coolers for the card were water-based.
post #3550 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

If the 590 had seen the same attention the 570 did, the 590, just based on historic Nvidia optimization, would be about 40-50% of what it currently is...Which, you, yourself can actually accomplish...Only, it's an incredible amount of work.
I write our mobile drivers on occasion (You'll find several custom AW drivers out there) and it's an absolute nightmare to address the BSOD and base issues but, again, it is possible.
I believe the issue lies with the card being a limited edition...It's perfect and there just aren't enough of us to justify the manpower to actually address our issues.
Like I said, love/hate ~~ We love it because of how simple integration is and how little problems there are...We hate it because we know what it can be and Nvidia will never take it there.
Edit:
The VRM's aren't actually weak at all...They're the highest quality VRM's that a board company has ever used...The issue lies in the delivery and only the delivery.
The caps/lanes could not handle the load and thus they "blow out" at nearly the same location, every time...The lowest-2nd core based cap and/or the physical casing itself, because the load is in such excess, it actually back-feeds.

How exactly?
By re-writing own drivers or did I get you wrong?
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