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NVIDIA GTX 590 Owners Club - Page 52

post #511 of 5154
There could be a million reasons for issues, I am not siding with Masked specifically but he is probably correct at the scaling performance from drivers are the reason for benchmark scores.

My loop is rebuilt, cards installed... just trouble shooting flow... hoping juggalo will give a fellow ex-sailor some help.

I will bench the hell out of the cards when I am fully up running.

Here are four main culprits for invisible (not registered by any sensor) performance drops:

GDDR5 Error Correction < caused by low or high voltages to GPU or memory. Primary symptom: causes stutter and/or low scores with higher clocks. Overclock too high even with max voltage and your scores will dip. Proven a gillion times, especially by Hwbot benchers. I have first hand knowledge and experience as of last week (last time I checked) I was 20th in the world for certified 3DMark11 Extreme scores, but it was actually my 3rd highest overclock that produced the best numbers, not highest or second highest.

Power draw issues, power supply is having voltage ripples enough to trigger microstutter and lower anticipated voltages, but not enough to crash or register on a voltmeter (happens too quick.)

No extra PCI-express juice via molex or PCI-express boosters. Usually an issue for 3 or 4 cards, but this puppy draws PCI-Express max power outage at the single slot limit so this maybe an issue.

Of course, drivers. They can cause erratic performance issues, artifacts, microstutter, instability, and SLi issues. The dual GPUs of all kinds/manufacturers are known to be better performers after drivers mature.

Those are logical explanations of everything you boys might be seeing.

Sent from my DROID2
Edited by RagingCain - 4/2/11 at 1:19pm
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post #512 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post
So, "you'll" sit here claiming your card is throttling, even though it's not performing or scaling correctly and...That's not a driver issue at all, obviously, right?
No, throttling is not a driver issue, it's how it's supposed to work! A driver issue would be uniform ie. regardless of the clocks you run, it would be still bad and getting worse with lower clock. A CPU bottleneck would keep the results constant regardless of GPU clocks. And here it is actually becoming better as you back off with the overclocking, as reported by Pedros and proven by rush2049. Combined with the fact, that there is such mechanism built into the card, to throttle when things get dicey, I don't understand why so much denial about it?

It's actualy the best thing the card can do now. But if you want to continue to claim they didn't get the drivers and bios right, after working on the card for over two years and it being little more than SLI on one pcb, then you make nV driver team look like clueless baboons. Which they are not and neither that's your intention, is it? The fault lies in the hardware and the software team can only do so much with it.

However, if you can show me such driver induced behavior on a card without any OCP ciruits, I'll be happy to learn something new and look into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcuestag View Post
Yeah, my friend's 590 didn't throttle either, there must be something going on in DarthShader's GPU.
waitwaitwait, I don't have the card.

RagingCain,

good point about the GDDR5, but I don't think people clocked it very high, did they? It's set very low for stock too. Good luck with your tests, be careful though, proving someone wrong on teh internets isn't worth the stress sometimes...
post #513 of 5154
Oh, I thought you had a 590 which was throttling.

My bad then, sorry!
    
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post #514 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthShader View Post
No, throttling is not a driver issue, it's how it's supposed to work! A driver issue would be uniform ie. regardless of the clocks you run, it would be still bad and getting worse with lower clock. A CPU bottleneck would keep the results constant regardless of GPU clocks. And here it is actually becoming better as you back off with the overclocking, as reported by Pedros and proven by rush2049. Combined with the fact, that there is such mechanism built into the card, to throttle when things get dicey, I don't understand why so much denial about it?

It's actualy the best thing the card can do now. But if you want to continue to claim they didn't get the drivers and bios right, after working on the card for over two years and it being little more than SLI on one pcb, then you make nV driver team look like clueless baboons. Which they are not and neither that's your intention, is it? The fault lies in the hardware and the software team can only do so much with it.

However, if you can show me such driver induced behavior on a card without any OCP ciruits, I'll be happy to learn something new and look into it.


waitwaitwait, I don't have the card.

RagingCain,

good point about the GDDR5, but I don't think people clocked it very high, did they? It's set very low for stock too. Good luck with your tests, be careful though, proving someone wrong on teh internets isn't worth the stress sometimes...
After writing my own drivers for several years...I know it's a driver issue...I've been in contact with Nvidia about these issues.

In Adobe I'm only using a single core...In comparison to hard SLI where I utilize both...

That alone proves to me, absolutely, it's not scaling in SLI properly, it's not actually even performing properly...

I have 1 at home at 850mhz, I have 1 at work at 725mhz (right now, stable) and all I see is horrible performance at higher clocks because the card isn't scaling properly.

What I don't understand is why everyone claims it's throttling when it's only been proving to be utilizing 40%...That means it's not scaling.

Until it actually scales and performs properly; the entire argument is null.

I've promoted patience through this entire conversation and I will continue to promote that.
post #515 of 5154
Well, sorry I havent been active on here the last two days..... I got a new case the Corsair 800D, and I wired up my psu differently that I did in the past..... and my system isn't posting anymore..... probably put too much amps on a single rail..... I can't figure out how to get it to post.....

Dang card draws too much power.... lol..... hope I didn't wreck my psu for good, and if I can get the rails figured out it fixes it.
 
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post #516 of 5154
@D
The GDDR5 error checking can be triggered either GPU or Memory Speeds. Similar to an error in P95 Blend test which can cause an error by either CPU, Memory, or IMC voltages too low/high. Which is why you test CPU first with Small FFTs, then Blend test.

In this case, no offense intended, but all of you guys seem like you aren't testing any form of stability via GPU testing in OCCT or ATI OC artifact scanner. Just increasing GPU clocks and maybe a nudge on voltage and just running vantage, heaven, or 3DMark 11.

I don't believe what any of you are seeing is throttling, especially with no drops in voltage, no drop in clock speeds, nor anything else measurable decreasing. The only thing we see is low GPU usage, and I have seen this on my 580s which have primitive OCP and I have seen it while OCP is disabled. It made no difference. Let's take Dragon Age 2 for example, had about 50/60% GPU, drivers two weeks later 90% on both. That being said, performance could purposely be held back as I suspect it is sometimes for all Fermis.




My God, cards are cursed, fan died on the PSU now I have 0 water flow.

Spliced a brand new noiseblocker in there and omg is it quiet. An inch from my ear. I can't hear it blowing. So impressed.

The new typhoons are phenomenal too! I can feel them from 3 ft away and barely above a whisper. My pump is now the loudest thing on my computer.

Be back in a bit. Tearing water loop apart.... again. Sigh....

Sent from my DROID2
Edited by RagingCain - 4/2/11 at 3:18pm
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post #517 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthShader View Post
That's a bit ironic you changed to a GTX590, plagued with bad drivers in Masked's opinion. More interesting is, you don't seem to have/notice any issues with it, do you?
I hate to break this to you, but who in the world is 'masked'? Secondly, If I don't have problems, I don't have problems. Don't know how else I can say it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcuestag
I also find it a bit ironic considering how good the HD5970 was, and still is.
Sure was, sure is. Didn't like the audible cooling levels. Didn't like the bugs I experienced with the drivers. Sometimes you would find a driver release was great, sometimes they were buggy. My personal experiences ranged from Cat 10.1 - > 11.4p with everything in between (and including Von Modded drivers).

This is a GTX590 owners club. That means talking about ways we can tweak/improve performance and post our performance results and findings. If you're all going to sit there endlessly trying to win a internet battle over throttling issues of some and the vrm 'fireworks' of others, make another thread. "GTX590 Debate(s)" sounds good to me. It's been discussed, the problem exists for some, and doesn't for others.

I'm going to post some benchies in Crysis and AvP later this morning.

[EDIT] - Ah Masked is a user here. Didn't realise. No offence!
Edited by ReignsOfPower - 4/2/11 at 3:39pm
post #518 of 5154
I for one in the twelve years i've been interested in hardware have never heard of a poorly optimised driver making cards perform worse when overclocked...
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post #519 of 5154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReignsOfPower View Post
I hate to break this to you, but who in the world is 'masked'? Secondly, If I don't have problems, I don't have problems. Don't know how else I can say it.


Sure was, sure is. Didn't like the audible cooling levels. Didn't like the bugs I experienced with the drivers. Sometimes you would find a driver release was great, sometimes they were buggy. My personal experiences ranged from Cat 10.1 - > 11.4p with everything in between (and including Von Modded drivers).

This is a GTX590 owners club. That means talking about ways we can tweak/improve performance and post our performance results and findings. If you're all going to sit there endlessly trying to win a internet battle over throttling issues of some and the vrm 'fireworks' of others, make another thread. "GTX590 Debate(s)" sounds good to me. It's been discussed, the problem exists for some, and doesn't for others.

I'm going to post some benchies in Crysis and AvP later this morning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq40M...feature=autofb

[EDIT] - Ah Masked is a user here. Didn't realise. No offence!
This x2 - funny how the ATI owners came over to invade the GTX 590 club thread to post propaganda. Like those of us who spent this much on one video card don't know about computers or video cards.
     
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post #520 of 5154
Arizonian... some don't know at all
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