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Should I Replace my 2500K?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hey everyone! First time poster here. I've been lurking for quite a while and I've learned so so much from all of the awesome posts here.

Anyways, after reading many posts on here about 2500K temps and voltages, I've come to the conclusion that I have an average/below average chip. I have, for the life of me, been incapable of reaching full system stability @4.5 GHz with voltage less than ~1.360v (always BSOD x0124, which I know is either vcore or VCCIO, or it'll freeze, rarely). Using a LLC of Medium, this voltage fluctuates between 1.344v - 1.360v at moderate load and can drop all the way down to 1.304v during heavy load (IBT [no AVX] and prime95 Blend). When my system downclocks at idle, my voltage goes to ~1.008v. All in all, I know this is high, and that's what concerns me.

All this being said, my moderate load (gaming) CPU temps range anywhere between 53C and 61C (highest I've ever seen it go). My heavy load temps (IBT [no AVX]) reach about 72C max on a single core. Prime95 Blend takes my temps to around 68C on a single core. At downclocked idle speeds, temp goes down to 30C.

For additional information, the following is my computer setup and BIOS options:

Computer:

Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro B3 (BIOS version 1502)
CPU: i5 2500K (Batch #3049A376)
Cooling: Thermaltake Frio (2nd optional fan installed - fyi these fans will literally cut your finger open)
RAM: 8GB (2x4GB) Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600 (9 - 9 - 9 - 27 - 1)
GPU: 2 x nVidia 460 GTX SE (Standard Edition)
PSU: CoolerMaster GX 750W

BIOS Settings:

Ai Tweaker:

Ai Overclock Tuner: Manual
BCLK/PEG Frequency: 100.0
Turbo Ratio: 45 (By All Cores)
Internal PLL Overvoltage: Auto
Memory Frequency: DDR3-1600MHz
EPU Power Saving Mode: Disabled
Memory Timing: 9 - 9 - 9 - 27 - 1

DIGI+ VRM:

Load-line Calibration: Medium
VRM Frequency: Auto
VRM Spread Spectrum: Enabled
Phase Control: Standard
Duty Control: T.Probe
CPU Current Capability: 100%

CPU Voltage: Offset + 0.020
DRAM Voltage: Auto
VCCSA Voltage: Auto
VCCIO Voltage: Auto (tried 1.15v and 1.2v at every increment below my current vcore and seemed to help, but would still BSOD)
CPU PLL Voltage: Auto
PCH Voltage: Auto
CPU Spread Spectrum: Auto

And so onto my final and most important question (thanks to anyone who has read this far), should I just return the CPU to Fry's and get another one? I'm currently on my 7th day having bought the chip, leaving me 8 days to return it. Or, is there hope? Is there something I'm completely missing? Could it be my Mobo? Anyways, I'm coming to all of you experienced overclockers with my dilemma, and any guidance is hugely appreciated. Thanks so much for your time and thanks in advance to anyone who offers their 2 cents.
Edited by cinnamonbits - 3/26/11 at 10:57am
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post #2 of 15
As this is your first post, Welcome to OCN

There are a few things that you should do - first you should take off all power saving options (speedstep, C1, ect.) and turn your line load calibration to full instead of medium (some boards the option full means all the way off, so you'll have to experiment with which one it is). You may be having problems because of the vdroop that your experiencing, extreme droop has to do with the motherboard and not the chip. Your temps are fine if your at 4.5GHZ - you should also turn off any turbo mode.
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post #3 of 15
try this.

Ai Overclock Tuner: Manual
BCLK/PEG Frequency: 100.0
Turbo Ratio: Turbo ratio by each core - 45
Internal PLL Overvoltage: Enabled
Memory Frequency: DDR3-1600MHz
EPU Power Saving Mode: Disabled
Memory Timing: stock for now

DIGI+ VRM:

Load-line Calibration: Ultra High
VRM Frequency: Manual - 350
Phase Control: Extreme
Duty Control: Extreme
CPU Current Capability: 100%

CPU Voltage: Manual - 1.4v
DRAM Voltage: Whatever stock volts are for your ram
VCCSA Voltage: Auto
VCCIO Voltage: Auto
CPU PLL Voltage: 1.75v
PCH Voltage: Auto
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disable


Run prime blend for an hour and reduce volts until bsod.

EDIT: btw welcome to OCN
Edited by munaim1 - 3/26/11 at 11:23am
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post #4 of 15
If it is really worth it to you to get a higher clocking chip I guess you could try, but anything above 4Ghz, even with a Sandy Bridge chip, is as good as you can expect just from running Sandy Bridge. You may get a higher clocker, you may not, or the chip may not even be what is holding back your clock.

I wouldn't do it.
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post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mygaffer View Post
If it is really worth it to you to get a higher clocking chip I guess you could try, but anything above 4Ghz, even with a Sandy Bridge chip, is as good as you can expect just from running Sandy Bridge. You may get a higher clocker, you may not, or the chip may not even be what is holding back your clock.

I wouldn't do it.
Your words are reassuring. I must admit that I'm beginning to feel foolish trying to get these ultra results that the really experienced overclockers are getting. Maybe I just need to up my humility voltage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by munaim1 View Post
try this.

Ai Overclock Tuner: Manual
BCLK/PEG Frequency: 100.0
Turbo Ratio: Turbo ratio by each core - 45
Internal PLL Overvoltage: Enabled
Memory Frequency: DDR3-1600MHz
EPU Power Saving Mode: Disabled
Memory Timing: stock for now

DIGI+ VRM:

Load-line Calibration: Ultra High
VRM Frequency: Manual - 350
Phase Control: Extreme
Duty Control: Extreme
CPU Current Capability: 100%

CPU Voltage: Manual - 1.4v
DRAM Voltage: Whatever stock volts are for your ram
VCCSA Voltage: Auto
VCCIO Voltage: Auto
CPU PLL Voltage: 1.75v
PCH Voltage: Auto
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disable


Run prime blend for an hour and reduce volts until bsod.

EDIT: btw welcome to OCN
I am currently testing these settings! Thank you very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by appleg33k85 View Post
As this is your first post, Welcome to OCN

There are a few things that you should do - first you should take off all power saving options (speedstep, C1, ect.) and turn your line load calibration to full instead of medium (some boards the option full means all the way off, so you'll have to experiment with which one it is). You may be having problems because of the vdroop that your experiencing, extreme droop has to do with the motherboard and not the chip. Your temps are fine if your at 4.5GHZ - you should also turn off any turbo mode.
Thanks for your input! Looking into these settings as well!
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post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Well, I seem to have found a solution. The OC that I had claimed was stable in the OP turned out to be unstable as well. This disheartened me and I had enough motivation to just take the CPU out and return it.

I do not have the batch number from my first CPU, but I do remember searching for it and coming up with no results. If it matters, the CPU was made in Costa Rica, whereas my replacement CPU was made in Malaysia and is Batch #: L042B291.

Here is a screenshot of the OC I was able to accomplish, yet I am not entirely sure that it is stable yet. I'll be using my computer for gaming over the next few days and hopefully that'll reveal any instabilities.



I have learned a few things during this experience, in case anyone is interested (I'm sure this information can be found elsewhere on the forum, but I had discovered this stuff independently, and had not come across it during my research):
  • There are some out there who completely discredit prime95 as a test because IBT is so much more intense. I have on two separate occasions had my OC get through a 20 pass IBT with AVX enabled and maximum memory, only to BSOD during a game or 20 minutes into a prime blend.
  • It is actually possible to stop (not disable as per the BIOS, but essentially prevent it from happening) speedstep using the High Performance power profile in Windows 7.
  • Interestingly, a "stability" test that I'm beginning to use is simply allowing the computer to idle doing absolutely NOTHING for an extended period of time. I've read on multiple different forums of people who would BSOD, freeze, or crash when idling, after achieving what they thought was a completely stable OC. Now this is most likely due to Speedstep, LLC, etc, but it might be good to "test" for.
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post #7 of 15
Wow your vcore was very low in the screenshot. I would have hung on to the chip and continued working. When the spec max VID is 1.52, and you are only at 1.28 and trying a >1Ghz overclock, I would not have been surprised if the chip needed 1.35 or 1.4

If you are happy, then that is what is important! Good luck with your next computer.
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post #8 of 15
Glad you got a better chip. That's the first CR chip I saw that was doing that bad. (some other guy here got one that did 5 ghz at 1.39v).

In order to find out what your chip is capable of, you have to find the target voltage it needs to be stable at max load. Since the first chip was going down to 1.304v, that chip could have been anywhere between a 1.325v to 1.35v cpu. And your LLC settings weren't high enough when testing that one, so it may not have been as bad as it seemed. And for a 2500k, a 1.325v is definitely not "bad" at 4.5 ghz, but more like average. Good ones will be <1.275v at full load.

My 2600k can do 4.5 ghz at 1.236v load; may wind up needing a small bump later. That requires a 1.265v BIOS setting. And 5 ghz 1.404v load ->1.445v BIOS.

If you have high vdroop, the chips wind up seeming worse than they actually are (how would you feel if you had a 1.4v stable 5 ghz chip, but you needed to set 1.5v in BIOS For it? You would wind up thinking the chip sucks...)
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post #9 of 15
If you haven't read this guide yet then do so

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1578110

I am using the settings in that guide for my 4.5Ghz OC, although i have C states disabled and Internal PLL Overvoltage also disabled, everything is pretty much the same. Internal PLL Overvoltage is only recommended for 4.8+ clocks and more so for 5.0+ clocks.

Personally i like leaving speedstep enabled cause again , it wont add to stability problems sub 4.8 clocks.

Here is also a link to my work log , i have screen shots of my BIOS settings etc. 4.5Ghz is not hard for this chip to achieve at all. I have been working my way down from 1.4v to find the lowest stable voltage. Each time i go a notch lower i test in prime for 5 hours if it passes i go a notch lower, i will do this until i cant pass a 5 hour go at prime, then i will test the last stable voltage from the 5 hour tests and test for at least 10 hours, and voilla you found your stable clock.

Some people like testing for longer periods than 10 hours , because the fact is you can still fail at any moment but if a clock doesn't fail within that 10 hour period that is good enough for me.

http://www.overclock.net/intel-mothe...t-me-some.html
Edited by sockpirate - 3/27/11 at 11:17pm
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post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by esp42089 View Post
Wow your vcore was very low in the screenshot. I would have hung on to the chip and continued working. When the spec max VID is 1.52, and you are only at 1.28 and trying a >1Ghz overclock, I would not have been surprised if the chip needed 1.35 or 1.4

If you are happy, then that is what is important! Good luck with your next computer.
I'm sorry, I might be misunderstanding, but that screenshot I showed was my NEW chip, not my old chip. My old chip required > 1.38v to achieve a stable 4.5GHz OC. Even though I put 1.36 in my original post, I found that that overclock was still unstable. That's really the reason I broke down and exchanged the chip out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
Glad you got a better chip. That's the first CR chip I saw that was doing that bad. (some other guy here got one that did 5 ghz at 1.39v).

In order to find out what your chip is capable of, you have to find the target voltage it needs to be stable at max load. Since the first chip was going down to 1.304v, that chip could have been anywhere between a 1.325v to 1.35v cpu. And your LLC settings weren't high enough when testing that one, so it may not have been as bad as it seemed. And for a 2500k, a 1.325v is definitely not "bad" at 4.5 ghz, but more like average. Good ones will be <1.275v at full load.

My 2600k can do 4.5 ghz at 1.236v load; may wind up needing a small bump later. That requires a 1.265v BIOS setting. And 5 ghz 1.404v load ->1.445v BIOS.

If you have high vdroop, the chips wind up seeming worse than they actually are (how would you feel if you had a 1.4v stable 5 ghz chip, but you needed to set 1.5v in BIOS For it? You would wind up thinking the chip sucks...)
I definitely think that due to my inexperience in overclocking, I wasn't able to really fine tune my overclock to really take advantage of my first chip. So, as you said, the chip could've been better than I had portrayed it. That being said, I really tried my darndest to get that stable with lower voltage.

And, I agree with what you said about it not being a "bad" chip per se. It was just after looking at all of the material on the net (and having what I thought was a stable OC crash) that I decided to take the risk and return a chip that was at the lower end of the average spectrum.

I'm just kicking myself though because I didn't document the batch number of the old chip (when I searched for it I came up with nothing), because I would love to see what future overclocks from the same batch come up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sockpirate View Post
If you haven't read this guide yet then do so

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1578110

I am using the settings in that guide for my 4.5Ghz OC, although i have C states disabled and Internal PLL Overvoltage also disabled, everything is pretty much the same. Internal PLL Overvoltage is only recommended for 4.8+ clocks and more so for 5.0+ clocks.

Personally i like leaving speedstep enabled cause again , it wont add to stability problems sub 4.8 clocks.

Here is also a link to my work log , i have screen shots of my BIOS settings etc. 4.5Ghz is not hard for this chip to achieve at all. I have been working my way down from 1.4v to find the lowest stable voltage. Each time i go a notch lower i test in prime for 5 hours if it passes i go a notch lower, i will do this until i cant pass a 5 hour go at prime, then i will test the last stable voltage from the 5 hour tests and test for at least 10 hours, and voilla you found your stable clock.

Some people like testing for longer periods than 10 hours , because the fact is you can still fail at any moment but if a clock doesn't fail within that 10 hour period that is good enough for me.

http://www.overclock.net/intel-mothe...t-me-some.html
Yeah, that's actually one of my favorite guides! Interestingly, that guide was a factor in me deciding to return the chip, because I read: "Increased range between 44 to 47x multipliers will generally require a voltage range between 1.30 to 1.375V with an LLC recommended setting of high to ultra high." Since I was needing 1.38v+ to hit 4.5GHz, I felt like my chip was sub par. As pointed out by Falkentyne though, I didn't heed the advice about the LLC, and that actually could've caused the chip to fall within those parameters and thus not seem below average.
Edited by cinnamonbits - 3/28/11 at 12:07am
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