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[Time]12-Year-Old Expands Einstein's Theory of Relativity, Thinks Can Prove It Wrong - Page 22

post #211 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmung View Post
Not everyone is born with the ability to reach genius standards. Not everyone can get a 170 I.Q if they tried. Sure people can improve themselves, but the brain has a limit. As you age it then becomes more and more difficult. Some people are born gifted, deal with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mygaffer View Post
For the most part intelligence is predetermined genetically like height or eye color. Forest Gump could never learn "how to harness the true power our mind" as you say.
Cover at bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyy View Post
School through university is almost all effort. Your professional career is probably closer to a 50/50 split between effort and natural ability. That's why the smartest people excel, get promoted...

None of us here could do what that kid did when he is 12, no matter how much effort we bring to the table.
Not really, most real life situations aren't natural talent but learned ability. The major talent fields are R&D, it's the fastest and most competing field. I could actually go on about one of the ideas I have about how we learn and create complex technology but that's for another debate.

Honestly real life is a bunch of people with specific talents working together to achieve the larger goal. We can't all be a genius so we all take specific fields and do that one thing really well to oil the machine. That's real life, you learning your specific field so that you can get hired on at this job for your specific learned abilities. Some can do those better than others, some are at the right place at the right time... In all honestly you are better off being self actualized, knowing your potential, than being smart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldboy View Post
having said that, shame on his parents for not letting this youngster have a proper childhood.
He has asperger syndrome!!! He won't ever be properly sociable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbo353 View Post
A lot of education whether you know or believe it or not is geared toward the way you think rather than explicit use.. i.e maths and logical thinking.. english and social awareness.. i know very broad examples but you get the idea.
That is actually a myth, there aren't any subjects that are less logical. All the sciences are as well as English. For what is English? English, in the form of just pure language, is structured communication. Every language class teaches you structure, which is logic derived. We learn logic in every class but gym and theater? I think there is another one, but all the mandatory classes are all logic derived. I could actually tell you some ideas/theories that have been thrown around about how/why we teach our kids the way we do. Little logic boxes programmed to do specific tasks, it's really scary.

No seriously, really really scary. Notice how we are taught in schools to work on homework, each lesson a specific set of tasks to learn. Each task broken down into smaller and smaller groups. We then teach kids to do these smaller tasks on their own without help (homework), though we do encourage help but say they should do it on their own (operant conditioning through positive re-enforcement). Then we teach group presentations, where each kid is told to take a task for the "project" and complete it so they can do the project as a group (more operant conditioning). Now... What does that look like? Hmm, CEOs tell their workers to learn a specific task, to complete on time, so that the group can get the project done (operant conditioning finished, you do the task without question). Oh man, seriously the patterns in social economics are just blatantly disturbing. Just think about that, think about how that works in every work force. We are taught to manage single "tasks" to help out a larger "group" (or sub-group) to complete a "project" for our "superiors". MMMmmm I do love me some good thinkin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post
And when people say I BELIEVE? That means it's an invitation to show them the error of their thought if you can make a credible argument.
I don't really care about whatever fight you guys are babbling on about, but that statement is wrong. Things like "I believe" or "I'm not sure but...." are disclaimers so that we don't have to take the fall. If we put a disclaimer up so that they can't hold us accountable then socially we don't have any issues when we are wrong. You can shrug it off due to the disclaimer, it shows that you are making a statement that you know has a high chance of being untrue mainly because you don't know.

Basically you put up a disclaimer so that when you are called out for BS you can say "I told you it might not be true". It's a facade to hide behind, that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darksuffering View Post
what does this kid eat for breakfast? Stem Cells?
That just made me think of south park, epic!

Ok I know that there were a bunch of posts about intelligence as well as motivation. One problem with comparing human intelligence is so complicated that we can't accurately say that IQ tests are even close to right. The biggest problem is that we don't actually understand the interaction that the brain has. I was going to make this more technical but I'm going to take another route.

Take bi-lingual speakers, one from birth and one taught later in life. The one taught from birth has a unique quality, the area of the brain that is used for speech is shared in both languages. You may think that's not weird and that everyone shares the same area for speech across all languages. No they don't, people seem to only share brain space when they are learned closer to birth. People who learn a language later after maturation, such as high school/college, have separate areas of the brain for spanish/english (example).

This causes another side effect, being bi-lingual from birth. They tend to excel in comprehension and learning. This isn't thought that they are smarter, but rather they had some unique help. When the speech centers merge it gives them the ability to think/describe in a manner that is unlike either language. It also gives them a larger speech center, more brain power geared towards communication. Many many advantages, all by simply wiring the kid to be bi-lingual right after birth.

How is this important? The current thought is that everyone uses the same space and areas of the brain. A few differences are the information and how the brain manipulates itself (wiring) to use that information. We know that the brain can re-wire itself, it has been shown in strokes where synapses bypass bad parts of the brain and create new working areas. Essentially all our brains work very close to the same thing, we have just put different information in them. This information doesn't just make us smart, but it can change how our brain processes the information (bi-lingual example).

The problem? We do not know if people have a genetic disposition to how the brain wires itself, currently we think that there is no genetic link. Neurons that fire together tend to wire together, we "wire" our brain by using groups of neurons in the same areas. I would detail the association/wiring but that goes into how our brain wires itself, that's a huge debate. There is also decreased space for other "information", covered more below.

All in all "intelligence" isn't genetic, at least not in the sense of genius. Einstein was unique, his brain was actually different, not larger but shaped differently. We currently measure IQ by how much you know but that has problems. Going back to the bi-lingual example, those kids have a larger language print on the brain. Lets face it folks, the brain has only so much real estate before you run out of room. Increased function in one areas (more brain used for that "subject") decreases function in another area or areas (known to be true, unsure of the extent due to just going into the field).

So next time you know a person who's a smartass, ask them the flying speed of swallow. Or even yet, ask them if a swallow can carry a coco-nut. Just because they dedicated their learning process to a specific field (or maybe just stats/facts) does not mean they are smart/intelligence. It just means they wasted more time knowing these facts. Without knowing how long it took them to learn them you have no idea their true potential.

Calc in 2 weeks is pretty dang fast, I don't know many people who can do that. Unfortunately I know he is going to have problems somewhere in life, either mental or physical. You can't run the human brain that hard and that fast without something giving.

[edit] I guess I should say that genetics do play a role, but the roles they play tend to be obvious. You have a few main states for this: Retard/Functional/Abnormal. Retard is an obvious state, your mantel acuity is obviously low. Functional is where the average person would be, you learn with everyone else.. Abnormal is anyone above functional/normal, people who learn and interact outside of the functional/normal group and above retard.

IQs of 120 and such don't mean anything, especially when the test is just measuring how much you know (or your ability to processes what you read/write ect...). We need to know how fast you can learn and how fast you can apply that information compared to somebody who has the same knowledge/skills. That would show the dominant person, not an IQ. Get me those results and then we'll talk about how much genetics alter your ability to learn and process information. Hasn't been done yet, there isn't a single known method to accurately measure intelligence as sheer power.

[edit2] I didn't even get into the details of how being bi-lingual can alter how you would perform/manage in school. Something so simple yet so impacting on how we develop. The role genetics play gets smaller and smaller once you get outside of the obvious, such as Turrets, Dyslexia, Aspergers/Autism, and other disorders that show obvious cognitive issues.
Edited by mushroomboy - 4/3/11 at 12:55am
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post #212 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
I could actually tell you some ideas/theories that have been thrown around about how/why we teach our kids the way we do. Little logic boxes programmed to do specific tasks, it's really scary.

No seriously, really really scary. Notice how we are taught in schools to work on homework, each lesson a specific set of tasks to learn. Each task broken down into smaller and smaller groups. We then teach kids to do these smaller tasks on their own without help (homework), though we do encourage help but say they should do it on their own (operant conditioning through positive re-enforcement). Then we teach group presentations, where each kid is told to take a task for the "project" and complete it so they can do the project as a group (more operant conditioning). Now... What does that look like? Hmm, CEOs tell their workers to learn a specific task, to complete on time, so that the group can get the project done (operant conditioning finished, you do the task without question). Oh man, seriously the patterns in social economics are just blatantly disturbing. Just think about that, think about how that works in every work force. We are taught to manage single "tasks" to help out a larger "group" (or sub-group) to complete a "project" for our "superiors". MMMmmm I do love me some good thinkin.
Why is organizing and structuring learning so scary? We have refined the process of teaching as time goes on. When Algebra was first discovered, it wasn't taught in middle school, it required top of the line thinking in order to understand. We break tasks up into smaller tasks that can be accomplished more easily because it's more efficient.

Just because companies use similar methods, doesn't mean you should be afraid of it. It's not like we're being programmed to be slaves for some mastermind.

Everything we have today comes from methods that create order and simplify tasks. Agricultural societies couldn't exist without order. Being able to work independently as well as in groups are useful skills to have in life. Why is this so scary?
post #213 of 225
Ahahahaha. This kid is a good comedian.
    
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post #214 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by cory1234 View Post
Imagine when nanotechnology is going to make us all geniuses...

I took AP Calc 2 in Highschool (A ), and my teacher was a narcoleptic lmao.
Yeah, i took AP Calc 2 my senior year of high school as well, but i'm also from Ukraine, and i was thought calc there when i was in 7th-8th grade. So as a lot of people said, yes he IS very smart, but he's not exactly as smart as they make out to be. In Ukraine you HAVE to take that high of a grade of math, because you can not choose what classes you take until you finish 9th grade. And in 9th grade calc 2 and above is a standard. Sadly i moved to USA after 7th grade, so i had to take dumbed down classes of what i already knew, for 4 years before i could even start learning anything new.
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post #215 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinner View Post
My IQ is as high as his and I still did not manage to fulfill a single valuable thing in my life due to being 100% spoiled and thus lazy.

It feels so bad.
Yea...mine isnt as high as his, but its almost there, and sadly because i moved to USA, i ended up being spoiled by my step dad and becoming lazy. Now i take retarded ass classes in college that i already know, but can't get any higher due to being so lazy in high school.
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post #216 of 225
Let's say this kid has an IQ of 180-200, just by that fact that he is likely in the top .5 percent intellectually of the entire population living today. Just for the sake of this he should be allowed to explore what ever he wants, whatever he comes up with will likely help the world in some way or another.

On a side note my IQ is around 140 and he makes me feel like that guy from flowers for algernon.
    
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post #217 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
Why is organizing and structuring learning so scary? We have refined the process of teaching as time goes on. When Algebra was first discovered, it wasn't taught in middle school, it required top of the line thinking in order to understand. We break tasks up into smaller tasks that can be accomplished more easily because it's more efficient.

Just because companies use similar methods, doesn't mean you should be afraid of it. It's not like we're being programmed to be slaves for some mastermind.

Everything we have today comes from methods that create order and simplify tasks. Agricultural societies couldn't exist without order. Being able to work independently as well as in groups are useful skills to have in life. Why is this so scary?
If you get some time go rent/watch "Waiting for Superman", and spend a little time thinking about how "well" refined education has become as time has marched on.

However, I am of the mind to accept your point as being quite valid. It works for what it needs to work for. (education) In that the structured learning facilitates the very structure from whence it came, thus it is self promulgating.

In the vein of going well outside the box, or tinkering with new ideas, I find that it is impossible to be taught, and in that light, teach different modes of thinking, and in that, the genius (ability to self fashion new modes in spite of convention) lies.

Mushroomboy seems like he is talking around the concept of the polymath... and somewhat unofficially the last one of those was Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, and I very seriously doubt we will be seeing another one of those anytime soon. That sort of multifaceted learning is simply not something on the menu when education is focused around specialization and pocket/pamphlet learning. To attempt to achieve such lofty heights is in and of itself anti-social, as it crosses so many social lines and boundaries.
 
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post #218 of 225
Wow he's awesome.
Then again, his brain is a 'binned chip'.
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post #219 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilWrir View Post
Ah! My ego!!!
this
2 OP pls nerf
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post #220 of 225
I'm not saying our education is bad, it's that people don't see the larger picture in it. We don't have lower class in America like a third world country, we have a semi-educated working class that gets paid low wages. This was easily achieved by teaching specific skills so that workers can only work on a single type of task. From factory work to large corporations it's done this way, it's actually a really amazing thing too.

I'm just saying if you think it's scary to think we teach subjects so they structure how we think then you should look a bit larger. We structure our kids to be perfect replacements, easily as replicable as the next child. It won't change that way, ever. We moved on from learning a trade/craft to learning a specific skill. Its just a natural product of how our educations systems are working, to change that would be to tear down a lot of social interaction.

Learning is one of my biggest interests, it's why I want to go into Psych. I believe we all have a base potential, we can all achieve (with reason) the same goals and ambitions. I personally think that we can all learn and use the same skills and assets, it just depends on how you go about it. So much happens in child development to adolescence that it's hard to say why one kid is dumber than another, so much is learned and processed. We are getting closer and closer to structuring really good education. I personally believe though that we have created problems in the education system, there are some things that need to be changed in order to move us as a species to another level. That's why I'm in psych. =)

[edit]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soggysilicon View Post
If you get some time go rent/watch "Waiting for Superman", and spend a little time thinking about how "well" refined education has become as time has marched on.

However, I am of the mind to accept your point as being quite valid. It works for what it needs to work for. (education) In that the structured learning facilitates the very structure from whence it came, thus it is self promulgating.

In the vein of going well outside the box, or tinkering with new ideas, I find that it is impossible to be taught, and in that light, teach different modes of thinking, and in that, the genius (ability to self fashion new modes in spite of convention) lies.

Mushroomboy seems like he is talking around the concept of the polymath... and somewhat unofficially the last one of those was Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, and I very seriously doubt we will be seeing another one of those anytime soon. That sort of multifaceted learning is simply not something on the menu when education is focused around specialization and pocket/pamphlet learning. To attempt to achieve such lofty heights is in and of itself anti-social, as it crosses so many social lines and boundaries.
I forgot to quote this, as I'm not thinking of polymath. I'm thinking of the final destruction of "trade skills". We don't hire a carpenter to come in and fix something in our homes or to build a new bathroom, we hire a contractor. He then has a team that is created up of individual people with separate skills. You don't have one or two men who know the entire routine. All the men on the contractor's team might know how to do everything, but not with the expertise as the person who is assigned the job. You might have one guy who lays tile and while they all can, this is the man who knows it all. That's what I'm talking about, we removed the trade/jobs that required you to have valued skills. Now you learn one skill, one task of the larger group/project. This has a couple things good come from it, teaching time and skill required to learn. Unfortunately you are a replacement who is easily as replaceable as the person you replaced. =(

[edit2] Granted you can learn multiple skills when you move from position to position but companies try and keep the skills easy and simple. They break down tasks to the lowest possible skills required so that you don't have to learn as much.
Edited by mushroomboy - 4/3/11 at 9:56am
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