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[Lab501] GTX590 VRMs analyzed - Page 11

post #101 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty View Post
the engineers dont decide things ... they work for a company ... the company decide what to do and ask for the input of the engineers who then give them an how it could work ... and how much ressource it would take ... and then the suits tell them .. well cut back a bit on the cost .. so the engineers do their best to not cut too much while respecting the demands of the suits ...
You don't know if that is true or not. You don't know if bean counters made the decision or if their engineers made a mistake and thought the design was good enough. What we do know is that the 590 is what it is, which is a card that coulda been so much more but instead it's got bad vrms that could fry the card. This is what the 590 is.
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post #102 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post
You don't know if that is true or not. You don't know if bean counters made the decision or if their engineers made a mistake and thought the design was good enough. What we do know is that the 590 is what it is, which is a card that coulda been so much more but instead it's got bad vrms that could fry the card. This is what the 590 is.

your post is rubish for this simple explaination ....


how much testing goes into signal integrity and how much testing goes into the actual gpu itself and how much architecture testing goes before they put out a design ????


alot im sure ... and why would the engineers skimp out on a thing as obvious as this when theyve done thousands of simulation with some of the best engineers in their field prior to releasing a product ...

think about it ... this product is bad because marketing wanted to save money .... nothing else ... nvidia when they dont skimp on things usually do great things .. and i prefer amd ... yet theyve been skipping on things recently ...
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post #103 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty View Post
your post is rubish for this simple explaination ....


how much testing goes into signal integrity and how much testing goes into the actual gpu itself and how much architecture testing goes before they put out a design ????


alot im sure ... and why would the engineers skimp out on a thing as obvious as this when theyve done thousands of simulation with some of the best engineers in their field prior to releasing a product ...

think about it ... this product is bad because marketing wanted to save money .... nothing else ... nvidia when they dont skimp on things usually do great things .. and i prefer amd ... yet theyve been skipping on things recently ...
You're making crap up, plain and simple. You don't know what their reasoning is because you aren't Nvidia. That's the truth. And regardless there are a bazillion examples of flawed engineering in products all over the place from cars to computers.
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post #104 of 207
While you have a point, tsm, this is like a car manufacturer installing a fuel pump that cannot get gas to the engine quickly enough for speeds over ~80mph. It's something that definitely would be caught in testing (even though most speed limits top out at around 70mph).

Basically, unless every single engineer dropped the ball at Nvidia, they knew about this. Whether the design was cut down for budget reasons, time constraints, or even fear of allowing the card to draw more than ~350W we don't know. However, this isn't something that an engineering team misses, especially one working for a high caliber company.

Heck, I could have told you that a 4+1 VRM was nowhere near enough for anything but an excessively downclocked GF110 and would allow absolutely no headroom... and maybe they knew that's all they could release. What they weren't expecting, I believe, was such a backlash from the enthusiast community. Also, I'm not sure if they anticipated cards failing at stock (which most likely isn't as widespread an issue as people make it out to be).

So, for whatever reasons, they released a sufficient GPU. It'll run stock clocks (ish) and it's actually a damn impressive card. However, it's definitely lacking the headroom that many enthusiasts desire and I personally believe Nvidia deserve's some flack for that reason.
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post #105 of 207
Stupid nvidia, crappy gpu's are for intel! lol
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post #106 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post
While you have a point, tsm, this is like a car manufacturer installing a fuel pump that cannot get gas to the engine quickly enough for speeds over ~80mph. It's something that definitely would be caught in testing (even though most speed limits top out at around 70mph).

Basically, unless every single engineer dropped the ball at Nvidia, they knew about this. Whether the design was cut down for budget reasons, time constraints, or even fear of allowing the card to draw more than ~350W we don't know. However, this isn't something that an engineering team misses, especially one working for a high caliber company.

Heck, I could have told you that a 4+1 VRM was nowhere near enough for anything but an excessively downclocked GF110 and would allow absolutely no headroom... and maybe they knew that's all they could release. What they weren't expecting, I believe, was such a backlash from the enthusiast community. Also, I'm not sure if they anticipated cards failing at stock (which most likely isn't as widespread an issue as people make it out to be).

So, for whatever reasons, they released a sufficient GPU. It'll run stock clocks (ish) and it's actually a damn impressive card. However, it's definitely lacking the headroom that many enthusiasts desire and I personally believe Nvidia deserve's some flack for that reason.
Like how a V8 Monza cannot have it's spark plugs changed without dropping the engine, note how I was specific in the dropping of the motor.

How about how the Audi TT's flawed aerodynamics at high speeds which caused fatalities? Audi redesigned their traction control and added a rear spoiler.

How about Porsche and their botched GT3 customer cars, that had very high sand content left over from the mold process. They were in such a hurry to get the motors out that they didn't clean them properly and the high sand content left over blew out many customer cars.

I could go on and on. The friggen Pontiac Aztek, what the hell is that all about??
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post #107 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post
I could go on and on. The friggen Pontiac Aztek, what the hell is that all about??
Subliminal advertising for Nike?
post #108 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post
While you have a point, tsm, this is like a car manufacturer installing a fuel pump that cannot get gas to the engine quickly enough for speeds over ~80mph. It's something that definitely would be caught in testing (even though most speed limits top out at around 70mph).

Basically, unless every single engineer dropped the ball at Nvidia, they knew about this. Whether the design was cut down for budget reasons, time constraints, or even fear of allowing the card to draw more than ~350W we don't know. However, this isn't something that an engineering team misses, especially one working for a high caliber company.

Heck, I could have told you that a 4+1 VRM was nowhere near enough for anything but an excessively downclocked GF110 and would allow absolutely no headroom... and maybe they knew that's all they could release. What they weren't expecting, I believe, was such a backlash from the enthusiast community. Also, I'm not sure if they anticipated cards failing at stock (which most likely isn't as widespread an issue as people make it out to be).

So, for whatever reasons, they released a sufficient GPU. It'll run stock clocks (ish) and it's actually a damn impressive card. However, it's definitely lacking the headroom that many enthusiasts desire and I personally believe Nvidia deserve's some flack for that reason.

well written post with alot of truth to it
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post #109 of 207
What scares me is component degradation. These things are already on the wire as it is.
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post #110 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post
Like how a V8 Monza cannot have it's spark plugs changed without dropping the engine, note how I was specific in the dropping of the motor.

How about how the Audi TT's flawed aerodynamics at high speeds which caused fatalities? Audi redesigned their traction control and added a rear spoiler.

How about Porsche and their botched GT3 customer cars, that had very high sand content left over from the mold process. They were in such a hurry to get the motors out that they didn't clean them properly and the high sand content left over blew out many customer cars.

I could go on and on. The friggen Pontiac Aztek, what the hell is that all about??
I don't think any of your examples match the simplicity of the VRM design on the 590.

Why do you think the 590 is clocked so low? It's not because the chips can't go faster. It's because they had a power envelope they wanted to stay within. At these clocks, the card will draw a certain amperage (depended on voltage). As I don't want to reread the article for specifics, we'll say at full load and stock clocks the card draws 140A. For whatever reason, the power delivery was given minimal headroom, we'll call it 160A. While it's sufficient, it's far from the amount of headroom we're used to be seeing.

Because of these hard limits, they would have known the card wouldn't clock much above stock. You don't set power limits on a card and then hope you put a strong enough VRM. It's all math/theory. Beyond small inefficiencies, it's not even something that would need to be tested.

They could have easily thrown another phase or two on there to allow 200A per GPU and that would have alleviated this issue altogether. What we don't know is who was calling the shots to deviate them from this path and why.

As I said earlier, I'd pin it on budget or time constraints... but even more probably just the budget.
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