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[Lab501] GTX590 VRMs analyzed - Page 12

post #111 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post
I don't think any of your examples match the simplicity of the VRM design on the 590.

Why do you think the 590 is clocked so low? It's not because the chips can't go faster. It's because they had a power envelope they wanted to stay within. At these clocks, the card will draw a certain amperage (depended on voltage). As I don't want to reread the article for specifics, we'll say at full load and stock clocks the card draws 140A. For whatever reason, the power delivery was given minimal headroom, we'll call it 160A. While it's sufficient, it's far from the amount of headroom we're used to be seeing.

Because of these hard limits, they would have known the card wouldn't clock much above stock. You don't set power limits on a card and then hope you put a strong enough VRM. It's all math/theory. Beyond small inefficiencies, it's not even something that would need to be tested.

They could have easily thrown another phase or two on there to allow 200A per GPU and that would have alleviated this issue altogether. What we don't know is who was calling the shots to deviate them from this path and why.

As I said earlier, I'd pin it on budget or time constraints... but even more probably just the budget.
What are you going on about? You're just arguing with yourself now. Whose defending nvidia here? That other dude was speculating on why they did a stupid, blaming it on business. I argued that no one knows why they did a stupid, and that ENGINEERS are not INFALLIBLE! Bottom line is we won't ever know their reasons for crappy vrms.
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post #112 of 207
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It would have been trivial to beef up the VRMs on the GTX590. Replace the 35A DrMOS chips with a pair of 50A mosfets and a driver, beef up the inductor, and they'd need to use a dedicated controller and add their own sense circuitry. Nothing that they don't know how to do, they've done it every time they design a new card. They could probably lift the design from an existing card and just tweak it with higher rated components and some different controller settings. 20hrs work + testing, tops. They could even do it with a Volterra solution to make it even easier and arguably more reliable.

But that would cost about 3x more per phase than the solution they went with--5x for Volterra. At some point the engineers, or the engineers' bosses, said "Ok, we need to make this cheaper, and we need it fast. Let's start over using the cheapest DrMOS solution we can get our hands on."
post #113 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post
What are you going on about? You're just arguing with yourself now. Whose defending nvidia here? That other dude was speculating on why they did a stupid, blaming it on business. I argued that no one knows why they did a stupid, and that ENGINEERS are not INFALLIBLE! Bottom line is we won't ever know their reasons for crappy vrms.
I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm just saying this is too basic to be a mistake. While I agree engineers are not infallible (I'm studying to be one right now), this isn't something that could possibly be an accident. It was a design choice... one that is quite unpopular with enthusiasts and probably many of the design engineers as well. No one wants to put out a product that compromises on things like this.

If this is a mistake, everyone involved with any aspect of the design of this card should be fired or at least required to take ECE 100 again... It's that basic.
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post #114 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post
Like how a V8 Monza cannot have it's spark plugs changed without dropping the engine, note how I was specific in the dropping of the motor.

How about how the Audi TT's flawed aerodynamics at high speeds which caused fatalities? Audi redesigned their traction control and added a rear spoiler.

How about Porsche and their botched GT3 customer cars, that had very high sand content left over from the mold process. They were in such a hurry to get the motors out that they didn't clean them properly and the high sand content left over blew out many customer cars.

I could go on and on. The friggen Pontiac Aztek, what the hell is that all about??
cars arent the same .. stop hinting at that ... two different world ....


but yes .. engineers have their say .. and also the marketing and the design teams ... ohh yes i just proved what i was making my point about ...


lots of different teams have input about a product ... and the end result is what we get in a box or at the dealership ...
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post #115 of 207
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Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post
If this is a mistake, everyone involved with any aspect of the design of this card should be fired or at least required to take ECE 100 again... It's that basic.
What's the word I'm looking for here... inexplicable.
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post #116 of 207
Guys I am sorry to bother but is it really true that the 570s are affected as well? W/c ones?

Does it mean that 570s may also die early even on stock clocks?
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post #117 of 207
570's aren't known to die at stock like some 590's, but they lack OC headroom like the 480/580. But some have gotten lucky I'm sad with the 590...VRM's not powerful enough, 6990 sounds like a leaf blower. Intel replaced faulty P67 boards, I'm sure Nvidia will deliver a revised card.
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post #118 of 207
I bet my Sapphire HD5870 non-reference (blue PCB non-compatible with any fullcover block in the market) blew its VR due to the same issue as the GTX590s.

Unstable power supplying.
   
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post #119 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post
What's the word I'm looking for here... inexplicable.
I still don't believe there is any chance at all that something like that could happen.

And even if there was, we're talking like 0.0001% chance. It's pretty obvious that the limiting factor was something else... like a budget...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubers View Post
Guys I am sorry to bother but is it really true that the 570s are affected as well? W/c ones?

Does it mean that 570s may also die early even on stock clocks?
The 570's aren't dying at stock, but they do have limited headroom. What is considered to be quite a mild overclocked voltage (1.1V) over a 0.97V to 1.05V stock voltage has killed a few. The principal is the same, though: people are killing cards from the power delivery system before they hit a cooling limit, which is something new to this generation (and limited to the 570 and 590).
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post #120 of 207
4 phase digital volterra PWM <--- problem solved

but the card will cost a grand
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