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[Lab501] GTX590 VRMs analyzed - Page 13

post #121 of 207
I hope this under-researched, overheated, under-performing junk dies off so we can finally get the 600 series on the market. @$%^, I had money saved up for TWO of these cards and now I have to wait 8 months to a year for the real cards to come out
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post #122 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post
I hope this under-researched, overheated, under-performing junk dies off so we can finally get the 600 series on the market. @$%^, I had money saved up for TWO of these cards and now I have to wait 8 months to a year for the real cards to come out
Just buy 2X 6990 (or 6990+6970 tri-Fire) with waterblocks and OC them easily over 1000. /Win

Quality parts, quality VRMs design, 2 GB of VRAM, fastest card on the planet. AMD made an enthousiast card for enthousiast.

My 6990 is running fine since 2 weeks already, not warm, not noisy, can OC pretty well already on stock cooler.

Just for fun, I tried running my 6990 at 1200/1500!, and I only got a ''Driver has stoppped recovered and blah blah blah''. That's what a quality card does whit crazy enthousiastic OC. A simple driver reset and benchmark freezing. No black smoke.

11.4 drivers are rock-stable. No problems with AMD drivers on my side.
Edited by Levesque - 4/1/11 at 4:33am
    
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post #123 of 207
I can make a 6990 run very quiet.

It's called V-sync
post #124 of 207
edit, nvm
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post #125 of 207
Chill guys. NVIDIA issued a statement they will fix this. Check out their facebook page!!!
 
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post #126 of 207
The voltage system is not at fault here because once you pass 300W marks its very expenisve. That they need to do is make more energy efficient GPUs first. In the past 5 years all they have been doing is add more more Watts. We jumped from 150W GPUs to 200W, now @ 250W.
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post #127 of 207
Looking at title, nope not about driver x vs driver y.
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post #128 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
It would have been trivial to beef up the VRMs on the GTX590. Replace the 35A DrMOS chips with a pair of 50A mosfets and a driver, beef up the inductor, and they'd need to use a dedicated controller and add their own sense circuitry. Nothing that they don't know how to do, they've done it every time they design a new card. They could probably lift the design from an existing card and just tweak it with higher rated components and some different controller settings. 20hrs work + testing, tops. They could even do it with a Volterra solution to make it even easier and arguably more reliable.

But that would cost about 3x more per phase than the solution they went with--5x for Volterra. At some point the engineers, or the engineers' bosses, said "Ok, we need to make this cheaper, and we need it fast. Let's start over using the cheapest DrMOS solution we can get our hands on."
They can easily change out the DrMOS for 50A MOSFETs and drivers, but it takes up more room, they could have just used 50a DrMOS, maybe even used 4 of those and it would be more than sufficient per core and then cheaper PWM. Or just added 1 or 2 extra phases and used an 8 phase PWM. They already have sense circuitry and controller chip, they are just cheap its as simple as that. honestly this is just a way to cut corners, and the first thing to go is the first thing a gamer wont notice, the VRM, of course OCers do.
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post #129 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertymac93 View Post
OP said 4x35A phases, article says 10x35A phases(5 per gpu) which makes a whole lot more sense. still far less then 6990s 6x80A
Keep in mind one phase per GPU is for the IMC, there's 12 phases total iirc, two for the memory, 1 for each IMC and 4 for each GPU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saulin View Post
Where is the video to prove that?

Not that I doubt a card can die at stock clocks because there are always bad apples in the basket. But where is the proof of this

None of these articles seem to have reproduce a card dying on stock voltage and clocks
Just for simplicity, even though it's not very realistic...35a per phase, 4 phases per GPU, that's 140a per GPU with an additional 35a for the IMC (175a), assuming .950v (Within nVidia's specs), this is 166.25w per GPU, nVidia rates the 590 at 365w, but this means the memory has to roughly 32.5w total when fully loaded, I tried to look up the specs for the ICs but I couldn't find the values I needed, the RAM could use up that much or a tad more, considering a normal stick of RAM is around 10w at most, meaning there is not a lot of freedom for the GPU VRMs to work with...Anything fully loaded will die faster than anything at say, 50% load, nVidia cheaped out here and if a card for whatever reason uses more than its usual amount of watts (Could be related to a failure, furmark, etc) then the VRMs are going to go.

They designed this without any reliability in mind at all, otherwise it'd have more VRMs for more stable operation and in case one blew, there's not much chance of the rest blowing simply because their load spikes at 125% or something, instead it'd spike at say, 75% if they were rated to be double what these ones are.
Once again, simplicity was in mind when I wrote this and it probably isn't 100% correct and more of a laymans kind of thing, but it still has the general gist of what is wrong here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saulin View Post
I take it, this GTX 590 which BTW has stock clocks of 690Mhz won't last long. I expect it to die on 90% of reviews. Weird that it didn't die on this preview

http://www.fudzilla.com/reviews/item...east-previewed
Whether it does or doesn't, it doesn't change the fact the VRMs are weak, to get that card would be utterly stupid as even at stock the VRMs are at their limit, unless PoV put better rated VRMs on the stock PCB then that'll probably blow too, unless they're the absolute best GPUs nVidia has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post
These guys from lab501 are funny. I read the article in the original language (one of the languages I speak is Romanian) and the guy says that NVIDIA should fire the engineers for designing such poor VRMS. I find it sad that someone can be so narrow minded. An engineer will always want to offer the best he can do but within the budget he is given. Surely there were orders from above to keep this thing cheap and furthermore to get it out as soon as possible.

You cannot blame just one side, NVIDIA failed with the product not the engineers.
Indeed, rushed card and they probably just wanted to concentrate on something they knew would be feasible to concentrate on and actually have an advantage over the HD6990 (Noise) as they knew that they couldn't put two GF110s and clock them high enough to destroy the HD6990.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saulin View Post
Exactly. Can someone also point me to a source that confirms that the GTX 295 is based on 2 GTX 285s
Look at the GPUs? GT200b, just like my GTX 275, just like any GTX 285...And then look at the ICs, how many there are and how much vram that adds up to and how many bits would be used.
The 275 is a 285 with the GTX 260s memory bus, the 295 is just 275 SLI in a single PCIe slot with a different clock speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post
I really have a decision to make when my 590 lands on my doorstep next week.

I guess I have the weekend to continue to monitor this...but if the 590 is a risk even at stock, this is getting shipped right back to EVGA for a refund.
Run it at stock, set up a webcam to record it 24/7 and send saulin the video if it blows.

If it does blow, just get a HD6990 instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubers View Post
Guys I am sorry to bother but is it really true that the 570s are affected as well? W/c ones?

Does it mean that 570s may also die early even on stock clocks?
The 570 has a similar VRM to the 590 but it has less shaders enabled so it works at stock speeds fairly well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post
Chill guys. NVIDIA issued a statement they will fix this. Check out their facebook page!!!
Last time their fix ended up being more OCP.

I won't be happy unless there's a rev.2 of the card with decent VRMs or the next GPUs they make have Volterra VRMs and no OCP apart from after decent overclock headroom.
    
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post #130 of 207
Thread Starter 
Brutuz: You can't just multiply the forward current rating of the DrMOS chips by the chip's Vcc, or else increasing the voltage wouldn't cause the VRMs to blow up. The voltage going through the fets is constant, but with a higher output voltage they need a higher duty cycle (at .95V they might be on for 20ns, off for 30ns; at 1.1V they might be on for 35ns, off for 15ns. (Arbitrary numbers)). That means that they have to sustain a current for longer, which means more stress on the chips, etc.
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