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post #21 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gib007 View Post
I'm waiting to see what all the hype has been about. If it beats Intel Sandy Bridge for gaming and rendering, I'll get an eight-core AMD Bulldozer CPU. If it fails to do this, Intel Ivy Bridge or whatever Intel pop out next will be my next upgrade.
If AMD fails with Bulldozer,they're pretty much done for as a cpu manufacturer.
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post #22 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
If AMD fails with Bulldozer,they're pretty much done for as a cpu manufacturer.
Not if they can get the low-end, mainstream and notebook market with Zacate and Llano. Zacate has already won over the Atom. Llano promises to be a better platform overall for the mainstream and notebook segments. CPU's still K10 level but the Redwood level graphics integrated in the APU is a game changer. For all of Intel's efforts and improvements, they're still far behind AMD in the graphics game.

This being an enthusiast site, most people tend to forget that the greater bulk of PC's purchased tend to have integrated graphics and that for your regular user, even an Athlon II X2 is usually plenty.
Edited by rui-no-onna - 4/2/11 at 8:30pm
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post #23 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
If AMD fails with Bulldozer,they're pretty much done for as a cpu manufacturer.
Statements like this are so incredibly irresponsible I am not even sure I should reply.

Do you have any idea how much of the market enthusiasts are? Biggest guess is around 4-5%. And who buys the top bin intel i7? Probably less than .01% of the market.

So, what you are essentially saying is that if AMD is restricted to only 95% or more of the market there is no way that they will survive.

That makes no sense.

Here's a tip for you: silicon companies find more profitibility in the mid bin processors than in the high end. Especially the really high end. I'd be willing to bet that there is more profit in a $300 naturally occurring top bin than in a $1000 forced bin.
post #24 of 130
After hearing computer component prices may double this year due to the Japan disaster and China being low on supplies or something like that, I hope Bulldozer stays inexpensive.
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post #25 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD View Post
So, what you are essentially saying is that if AMD is restricted to only 95% or more of the market there is no way that they will survive.

That makes no sense.
Hear hear +1.

In fact, Toyota makes MORE profit selling the Yaris, Corolla, and other "Entry level" models to 90% of the market (of Toyota owners) than they do selling the Avalon to .01% of the market (but probably for other reasons than it being their most expensive "flagship" car since it costs just as much as a Lexus ES and is more expensive than the Lexus IS which is Toyotas luxury marque).

How do I know this? They only sold 28,000 Avalons in the USDM market in 2010 (granted they did sell 100,000 units in 2000 according to Wikipedia). How many Yaris's and Corollas do you think they sold in those years and how much profit do you think they gained from those models.

Again I'm still waiting for the Bulldozer but the Llano will do it for me since I'm just looking to add a bit more computing power to my BOINC systems.
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post #26 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD View Post
Statements like this are so incredibly irresponsible I am not even sure I should reply.

Do you have any idea how much of the market enthusiasts are? Biggest guess is around 4-5%. And who buys the top bin intel i7? Probably less than .01% of the market.

So, what you are essentially saying is that if AMD is restricted to only 95% or more of the market there is no way that they will survive.

That makes no sense.

Here's a tip for you: silicon companies find more profitibility in the mid bin processors than in the high end. Especially the really high end. I'd be willing to bet that there is more profit in a $300 naturally occurring top bin than in a $1000 forced bin.
I think what Heavy MG meant is that AMD is done for, for him - as in, no more money for AMD, from him. I'd feel the same way anyway. But like you say, it would make little difference in AMD's overall revenue. It would just make a big difference in my particular system's overall performance!
    
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post #27 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD View Post
Statements like this are so incredibly irresponsible I am not even sure I should reply.

Do you have any idea how much of the market enthusiasts are? Biggest guess is around 4-5%. And who buys the top bin intel i7? Probably less than .01% of the market.

So, what you are essentially saying is that if AMD is restricted to only 95% or more of the market there is no way that they will survive.

That makes no sense.

Here's a tip for you: silicon companies find more profitibility in the mid bin processors than in the high end. Especially the really high end. I'd be willing to bet that there is more profit in a $300 naturally occurring top bin than in a $1000 forced bin.
Well i apologize for saying that,however, I think it would take AMD too long to really make a impact (to make up for the R&D spent on BD,and to make a decent amount of profit) in the mobile or mainstream market,with the way Intel pushes their sales,especially now with their gen 2 core CPU's. I'm sure AMD spent quite a lot on BD,they cannot afford to fail with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gib007 View Post
I think what Heavy MG meant is that AMD is done for, for him - as in, no more money for AMD, from him. I'd feel the same way anyway. But like you say, it would make little difference in AMD's overall revenue. It would just make a big difference in my particular system's overall performance!
Maybe,but if BD is only 10% faster than SB,while being more expensive,even more people will jump ship for Intel. Although, SB isn't a "enthusiast" CPU,only the <$900 1366 980X and other Extreme CPU's are. Bulldozer is said to be a true enthusiast processor.
Edited by Heavy MG - 4/3/11 at 10:50am
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post #28 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
Maybe,but if BD is only 10% faster than SB,while being more expensive,even more people will jump ship for Intel.
That's never going to happen. If you look at historical pricing, for the same price as Intel, AMD usually sells a chip that's a little bit faster. If they can't sell a faster CPU, then they lower prices. One example that comes to mind is when the i5-750 was released, the Phenom II X4 which was selling for around $200~250 (just a bit less than Bloomfield) dropped to less than $190.
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post #29 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
Well i apologize for saying that,however, I think it would take AMD too long to really make a impact (to make up for the R&D spent on BD,and to make a decent amount of profit) in the mobile or mainstream market,with the way Intel pushes their sales,especially now with their gen 2 core CPU's. I'm sure AMD spent quite a lot on BD,they cannot afford to fail with it.

Maybe,but if BD is only 10% faster than SB,while being more expensive,even more people will jump ship for Intel. Although, SB isn't a "enthusiast" CPU,only the <$900 1366 980X and other Extreme CPU's are. Bulldozer is said to be a true enthusiast processor.
Here's what you don't understand about this business. If you want to make up your R&D investment, you need a killer part at ~$150-200.

A high end part takes significantly longer to pay of the R&D. This business is about volume.

If we captured 100% of the 980X market it wouldn't make a dent on the the R&D spend.

But 2% of the $199 market would probably pay for the part 5X over.

I don't know squat about overclocking, but I know a lot about the economics of this business and almost everyone on the internet is 180 degrees from how things really work.

High end processors are a suck on your bottom line, this is a business that is tied to quick ROI and keeping fabs fed. High end parts create more waste and lost opportunity cost. And, they don't help sell things down the stack.
post #30 of 130
John, I don't think people are going to understand that. Honestly, it took me $500 more or less to learn that fact (EDIT: That was the cost of 1 semester of an Economics course) and to start looking at the bigger picture/at a different market segments and different scales.

Going by my previous example, why does Toyota need an Avalon in their lineup if it basically costs the same as a Lexus ES? From my understanding it's pretty much just to say "look at us we have a $40,000 flagship sedan in our lineup, even if it doesn't sell that many units we can still brag about having a kickass luxury flagship sedan".
Edited by Amor - 4/5/11 at 7:50am
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