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post #81 of 130
Gonna take some major beef to max Metro 2033, with everything clicked, not including PhsyX.

I think I get around 53 fps in the benchmark with everything maxed out.
    
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post #82 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Sounds about right, but then the design is flawed as you'd need a 8 core chip to get maximum core performance in a game using 4 threads.

I also am under the impression that since windows will spread threads across more cores than the thread count its going to slightly hinder performance even in single/dual threaded applications compared to a full fledged bulldozer core.

The last thing I was thinking of was the fact that resource sharing doesn't boost gaming performance, so there is no real benefit to its design for a gamer. The worst part of all is the fact that its a hardware design, there will be no option to turn it off and there won't be a i5 version without a feature you don't want.
What if it doesn't need maximum core performance to still perform amazingly well? I'm not saying it will, but there isn't really any way to say that it won't.

I'm a little curious about the 4 core versions of BD. Will the 4 core still use the bulldozer module design, sharing resources between 2 cores? I mean that was the idea behind getting 8 real cores onto one chip, but it doesn't seem necessary really for a quad.
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post #83 of 130
I reckon the two integer cores in a module thing is to reduce cost and increase efficiency by lowering power consumption while more or less maintaining performance of two physical cores. I doubt we'd be seeing Bulldozer CPU's with a different design at least in this generation.
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post #84 of 130
bulldozer blog says

Quote:
In reality what we are doing is driving efficiency. And don’t worry about the single threaded performance –we have already stated publicly that Bulldozer single threaded performance is expected to be higher than our current core architectures.
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post #85 of 130
Yes I already knew where they were going, they aren't going the way of the gamer imo.

Editing....
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 4/9/11 at 8:50pm
    
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post #86 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Yes I already knew where they were going, they aren't going the way of the gamer imo.

Editing....
Your're already making assumptions off of the little info that there is out for BD?
LOL!
Since Intel has HT,it mustn't be a gaming CPU,either.
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post #87 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
Your're already making assumptions off of the little info that there is out for BD?
LOL!
Since Intel has HT,it mustn't be a gaming CPU,either.
Clearly young one know not of the i5.

And the i7 has the ability to disable it. From all the comparisons I've seen HT hurts gaming performance, though for Intel its not a huge disadvantage, something like 2-5 fps loss over lower clocked i5s.

The thing I don't like about bulldozer is you can't turn off hardwired HT.
    
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post #88 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Clearly young one know not of the i5.

And the i7 has the ability to disable it. From all the comparisons I've seen HT hurts gaming performance, though for Intel its not a huge disadvantage, something like 2-5 fps loss over lower clocked i5s.

The thing I don't like about bulldozer is you can't turn off hardwired HT.
Bulldozer isn't HT,it is a whole different take on hyper threading that is made of real cores,instead of Intel's fake crap.
AMD claims it's something better than HT and actually delivers in media/gaming.
We can only wait and see.
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post #89 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Sounds about right, but then the design is flawed as you'd need a 8 core chip to get maximum core performance in a game using 4 threads.

I also am under the impression that since windows will spread threads across more cores than the thread count its going to slightly hinder performance even in single/dual threaded applications compared to a full fledged bulldozer core.

The last thing I was thinking of was the fact that resource sharing doesn't boost gaming performance, so there is no real benefit to its design for a gamer. The worst part of all is the fact that its a hardware design, there will be no option to turn it off and there won't be a i5 version without a feature you don't want.
1. You keep telling us that games only use (insert fictional figure) 2 cores, so whats the point in more cores/HT?

So then if a game only uses 2 cores, a 4 core BD (running 2 cores at 100% usage) would be fine. If a game does use all the cores, then the 180% performance per module would still be better than the 130% (?) per core HT.

2. When windows spreads the threads(lol), of a 2 core app accross 6 cores, those six cores aren't being pushed 100%, so I don't how it would affect performance when all the cores aren't being maxed?

3. You don't want resource sharing, fair enough, on low core usage BD wont share resources. You wanted a cpu that can give 100% output, not 90%, you got it.

...You're saying that's still not good enough?

As for turning HT on and off, that's a bios option, isn't it? It certainly isn't automatic. So when you switch on your pc you have decide "am I going to do any multithreading work, or do I want single thread gaming performance?". What if you get fed up playing your game and want to rip a video? Finished encoding, want to play a game? What if you think your game uses 2 cores but is actually multithreaded?

I'd rather have a cpu that scales core usage to meet threading demands automatically.

Then I can just get on and enjoy what i'm using the cpu for, instead of constantly worrying if i'm getting the best performance I can out of it (like if it's bottlenecking my graphics cards! ha ha).
Edited by purpleannex - 4/10/11 at 1:34am
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post #90 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
1. You keep telling us that games only use (insert fictional figure) 2 cores, so whats the point in more cores/HT?

So then if a game only uses 2 cores, a 4 core BD (running 2 cores at 100% usage) would be fine. If a game does use all the cores, then the 180% performance per module would still be better than the 130% (?) per core HT.

2. When windows spreads the threads(lol), of a 2 core app accross 6 cores, those six cores aren't being pushed 100%, so I don't how it would affect performance when all the cores aren't being maxed?

3. You don't want resource sharing, fair enough, on low core usage BD wont share resources. You wanted a cpu that can give 100% output, not 90%, you got it.

...You're saying that's still not good enough?

As for turning HT on and off, that's a bios option, isn't it? It certainly isn't automatic. So when you switch on your pc you have decide "am I going to do any multithreading work, or do I want single thread gaming performance?". What if you get fed up playing your game and want to rip a video? Finished encoding, want to play a game? What if you think your game uses 2 cores but is actually multithreaded?

I'd rather have a cpu that scales core usage to meet threading demands automatically.

Then I can just get on and enjoy what i'm using the cpu for, instead of constantly worrying if i'm getting the best performance I can out of it (like if it's bottlenecking my graphics cards! ha ha).
1. Most games only use two, a few use 4, none really fully use 6. There really is no point in gaming for more than 4 cores currently and in the foreseeable future, HT benefits multi-threaded applications but only in that it can be better to have 4 cores and HT than just 4 cores, however in some cases its worse.

You need to forget Intels HT, its not a boost in gaming.

2. Core speed isn't based on usage. Windows gives those cores something to do but the combined 6 cores can not finish a task run on 3 threads any faster than a 3 core cpu can.

3. Its only enough if the cores themselves are fast enough to make up for their gimped state. Why would it be an option in the bios? Intel has that option, but AMD went a different route, the core is probably only designed to run one way, I don't know if you'll be able to disable it in bios. If a game only uses 2 cores its only producing 2 threads. If you're concerned about encoding then Quick Sync is the better option, cpus can't compete with gpu parallel processing and bulldozer won't change that.

Ignorance is bliss.
    
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