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post #91 of 130
x86 is quite mature, and there is not much more they can do to improve greatly IPC
If intel+AMD could continue increasing IPC with additional transistors, they would not have bothered with multicore.

so what you gonna do if you need more performance ?
** throw in more cores , until workload shows no additional improvement (Amdahl law )
** clock chip higher, until you hit thermal wall (P4 anybody?)

Reason why SB has such performance, is agressive turbo and chip design which allows to clock higher than previous types.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
Bulldozer isn't HT,it is a whole different take on hyper threading that is made of real cores,instead of Intel's fake crap.
AMD claims it's something better than HT and actually delivers in media/gaming.
We can only wait and see.
true.
HTT shares everything except registers,
BD CMT shares less parts, here you see which exactly.

Bulldozer idea - Share parts which are often underutilized , improve them so they can support two int cores w/o bottlenecks.
Now, with this design, you saved amounts of power, which you can reuse it -> higher clocks. (or not -> low power consumption)


Edited by pietro sk - 4/10/11 at 4:04am
    
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post #92 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
I'm sure I read before from JF, that when BD is using only one core in a given module it gets full use of all the resources and therefore acts as a complete uncompromised BD core. The 180% figure only applies if both cores are being utilitised. So from a gamers perspective, if only two cores are being used, they will be full cores.

Maybe JF could clarify this... maybe I dreamed it!?
That is correct, but there is not a huge overhead for the sharing, so having access to all of the resources will not be a big uptick in performance as some people think.

You are probably better off running a 4 thread game on 2 modules than on 4 individual cores because then you can power gate down the undused modules, boosting the clock speed of the other cores.
post #93 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
If you're concerned about encoding then Quick Sync is the better option
Quick Sync only works if you're using integrated graphics. If you use discrete graphics, you're out of luck. LucidLogix has software that would enable graphics switching and both NVIDIA and AMD have announced they are working on similar technology for the desktop (NVIDIA already has Optimus for laptop). Caveat, you're most likely limited H67 and Z68 motherboards.

Also, if we're talking about hardware acceleration, then there's ATI Stream. I wouldn't suggest CUDA. PQ appears to be far behind that of Quick Sync and Stream.
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post #94 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD View Post
That is correct, but there is not a huge overhead for the sharing, so having access to all of the resources will not be a big uptick in performance as some people think.

You are probably better off running a 4 thread game on 2 modules than on 4 individual cores because then you can power gate down the undused modules, boosting the clock speed of the other cores.
First off this is OCN and I'm almost positive if you can disable amds turbo feature people are going to just so they can max the entire cpu and not concern themselves with power usage rather how much cooling they have will be their main concern. I can say this because I like most everyone else with an x6 disabled turbo core so we could hit 4Ghz or higher.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only way you can power gate down and boost core performance if running a four threaded game is by have a 3+ module 6/8 core bulldozer cpu.

Its sounds like your marketing job is getting the best of you, because you're advocating spending more for more cores that they won't need just so the cpu will boosts its clocks higher.
    
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post #95 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
1. Most games only use two, a few use 4, none really fully use 6. There really is no point in gaming for more than 4 cores currently and in the foreseeable future, HT benefits multi-threaded applications but only in that it can be better to have 4 cores and HT than just 4 cores, however in some cases its worse.

You need to forget Intels HT, its not a boost in gaming.

2. Core speed isn't based on usage. Windows gives those cores something to do but the combined 6 cores can not finish a task run on 3 threads any faster than a 3 core cpu can.

3. Its only enough if the cores themselves are fast enough to make up for their gimped state. Why would it be an option in the bios? Intel has that option, but AMD went a different route, the core is probably only designed to run one way, I don't know if you'll be able to disable it in bios. If a game only uses 2 cores its only producing 2 threads. If you're concerned about encoding then Quick Sync is the better option, cpus can't compete with gpu parallel processing and bulldozer won't change that.

Ignorance is bliss.
Did you actually read anything I wrote, or did you skim read it and assume you knew what I was writing? You haven't responded to a single point I made in a way that acknowleges you read what I wrote.

Take point 1. (I won't go through them all because you're too much of a cretin to actually read anything anyone else writes), I never said HT benefitted gaming, I said BD's cores will work as a complete core when an app only uses one core in a module, rather than a 90% core. But you didn't have the courtesy to read it, that speaks volumes about you.

You know, assuming makes an ass out of you and me.

You're right, ignorance is bliss, and you're about as ignorant as they come
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post #96 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
First off this is OCN and I'm almost positive if you can disable amds turbo feature people are going to just so they can max the entire cpu and not concern themselves with power usage rather how much cooling they have will be their main concern. I can say this because I like most everyone else with an x6 disabled turbo core so we could hit 4Ghz or higher.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only way you can power gate down and boost core performance if running a four threaded game is by have a 3+ module 6/8 core bulldozer cpu.

Its sounds like your marketing job is getting the best of you, because you're advocating spending more for more cores that they won't need just so the cpu will boosts its clocks higher.
99% (more) of the world doesn't overclock, that's why your beloved SB only has two models in it's entire line up that can be overclocked, get it, capeesh?

When the benchmark reviews are done, they will be at stock, so if an 8 core BD runs two cores at some some crazy turbo overclock, that's what the results will be based on, which is perfectly fair, as that's how the chip is designed, and that's how the average consumer will use it.

That's why your beloved SB has Turbo

Lastly, you don't have to disable turbocore on thuban to get 4Ghz, a bad workman always blames his tools.
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post #97 of 130
You actually expect me to respond after publicly stooping to name calling?

I don't feel I should have to explain what JF has already explained. It is pretty much common knowledge to anyone actually following the BD blog and reads what JF writes.

JF already stated that a module would not gain a boost in performance from not sharing the resources and that a bulldozer core operates at basically 80 or 90 percent of a what a full bulldozer core would without the resource sharing.

Don't you think its a problem when you resort to name calling and the fanboy apparently knows far more than you on this subject?
    
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post #98 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
99% (more) of the world doesn't overclock, that's why your beloved SB only has two models in it's entire line up that can be overclocked, get it, capeesh?

When the benchmark reviews are done, they will be at stock, so if an 8 core BD runs two cores at some some crazy turbo overclock, that's what the results will be based on, which is perfectly fair, as that's how the chip is designed, and that's how the average consumer will use it.

That's why your beloved SB has Turbo

Lastly, you don't have to disable turbocore on thuban to get 4Ghz, a bad workman always blames his tools.
^Agreed. This is why Turbo core is so important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
You actually expect me to respond after publicly stooping to name calling?

I don't feel I should have to explain what JF has already explained. It is pretty much common knowledge to anyone actually following the BD blog and reads what JF writes.

JF already stated that a module would not gain a boost in performance from not sharing the resources and that a bulldozer core operates at basically 80 or 90 percent of a what a full bulldozer core would without the resource sharing.

Don't you think its a problem when you resort to name calling and the fanboy apparently knows far more than you on this subject?
trlolololololololololololol....
Moar cores!
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post #99 of 130
SB´s turbo is very important "bent-marketing" feature, just watch lower SB cpus without turbo, or models with weaker turbo.


bulldozer will have nexgen turbo, so there i also expect some bent-marketing
(it will be fun watching these two in tests)
Edited by pietro sk - 4/11/11 at 11:45am
    
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post #100 of 130
The point I was making was that if you had an 8-core processor and wanted to run a 4-thread app, then having 2 modules gated off would probably give you better overall performance (due to Turbo CORE) than trying to run all modules with one thread on the module.

I was not saying buy an 8-core if you think you will never need more than 4 cores. Just buy a 4-core BD.
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