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[EG] James Cameron ponders 48 or 60fps shooting of future Avatar films - Page 16

post #151 of 177
While I understand that people want to hold onto 24 fps, technology has to take over the convention of film at some point. It's time for a Revolution.
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post #152 of 177
waaaait i dont get it... i understand how it works in video games and such but how do you shoot a movie in higher fps and how is it suppose to make it like soap opera... i dont get it...
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post #153 of 177
I hope they start increasing movie frame rates. It's fine on TV but at movie theaters I can easily see the flickering and all the motion blur and flickering tends to give me a slight headache. It just feels disorienting.

Not that it really matters. I might watch one or two movies a year.
post #154 of 177
when I was watching Avatar and they showed the action sequence when they were hunting the alien rhino in the jungle everthing was so choppy, I wished they filmed it in 120 Hz.
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post #155 of 177
Doing work in this industry its like... WOOOOOWWWWW. Lots of confused people here.

OK so as we all know 24 fps is a relic from an older time when it was the standard hand crank not too expensive way to make a movie. However I'm surprised no one has mentioned in theaters you view a movie at 48fps. Each frame is put up twice to reduce the flicker effect (basically nullified) and it works. It is a format we are used to and a lot of us (I'd say especially myself) love.

Now before you go nuts realize that its not like film speeds aren't already screwed with in filming. Higher speeds and lower speeds are sometimes used. Watch Gladiator. Some of those fight scenes were shot at 22 or 23 FPS and played back at normal speed (24) and gave it a very choppy effect. It was actually one of the first things I ever asked about in a film class - why did that look how it did and why did soap operas look the way they do? Bruce Lee fight scenes were apparently sometimes shot at 25 and played back at 24 because he moved so fast (frickin awesome eh?!).

Now all that I just mentioned was always aimed at 24fps in the end (or 48 theater/60fps on your TV). 60 will give a different look. Less motion blur with film but less would be needed. Its just how the format works. Digital? Ehhhh... who knows. I can point out nearly any movie that was shot in digital because it still doesn't emulate film and the intricacies of the physical/chemical interactions of light on the film. The RED One camera is the closest and best as of yet, as are the Phantom HD Camera and the Panavision Genesis, yet a lot of films that haven't used the RED One only used digital for high speed sequences where problems with motion blur is an issue. (you can tell) So digital it really really depends on what you use and how you use it.

G33K, I know what you were trying to show but it was a bad example because the camera used shot crappy 24p. I mean... crappy. Even its 60p had some *blegh* to it. Plus we don't know what codec/transcoding methods were used which changes damn near everything if you aren't careful.

At the end of the day I'll tell you this. James Cameron wont use a crappy camera, lens, lighting, or anything to tell his story. Whether you liked the story or not he never skimps on the materials. And that is so much. Because so much happens between what is in front of the camera to what you see on whatever screen you're viewing. I mean you have choices in:

-lenses
-filters
-what camera you use
-what film you use
-frame rates
-digital processing (if done on film)
-formats used in editing/CGI
-projector/screen/theater choice
-codec/transcoding choices
-TV viewed on choices
-Hz rating
-pulldowns
-motion interpolation technology

And that's not nearly everything. If he shoots at 60fps it will be very very quality and top notch production value. So while I love 24fps looking films more than probably any of you here, , I'll wait and see what it looks like in the end.

Sorry this is so long but I wanted to clear some stuff up and I've done at least 200 hours of research into this subject not including first hand experience. Any questions I'll answer.
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post #156 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by G33K View Post
Ladies and gentlemen,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAQ0OXkwhbw

Just for reference
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post #157 of 177
YES, YES, YES, DO IT! Set the new trend shoot at a fps that can easily divide into our screen refresh rate

I'm not going to read 16 pages... anyways I'm all for that feel and look you get from 24FPS videos and 60hz screens, but when working with video this makes things a pain in the ass when you need to upload your videos to the web, since you need to convert 24 fps to 30 fps, and somewhere along the long extra frames get added in and makes things really choppy and horrible.. But I also believe that to get that film look, they should still be able to create a filter or something that can give it that magic. Also that Sucker Punch movie really showed off how choppy 24fps can be in really fast action scenes.
    
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post #158 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnx View Post
I'm not going to read 16 pages... anyways I'm all for that feel and look you get from 24FPS videos and 60hz screens, but when working with video this makes things a pain in the ass when you need to upload your videos to the web, since you need to convert 24 fps to 30 fps, and somewhere along the long extra frames get added in and makes things really choppy and horrible.. But I also believe that to get that film look, they should still be able to create a filter or something that can give it that magic. Also that Sucker Punch movie really showed off how choppy 24fps can be in really fast action scenes.
There is no "film filter". There are tips, there are tricks that help. But if you want a film look you need the right equipment: a film camera with film, or a very high end digital camera. In either case you will need very good lenses.

Thank you another reason to wait for a DVD release of that film.
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post #159 of 177
This is the first thing I've ever heard about soap operas and looking different than movies or other video media. Then again, I've never watched one. Do they REALLY shoot at higher than 24fps, or is it just because of how they set up the sets and lighting?

I couldn't care less if they go with 48 or 60fps, because there's always the option of down-sampling both the resolution and the fps to whatever we can practically use. It's not like things like netflix, hulu, etc. use uncompressed and un-transcoded video files in the first place. Being concerned about the amount of bandwidth a higher-fps video might take is a moot point for what fps a video is shot at. And think about the values that are mentioned--48 and 60fps, both multiples of 2 vs. what are commonly used, likely to make transcoding/converting to the lower fps formats with relative ease, such that it's supported for accepted formats, codecs, etc.

That being said, if I choose 60fps vs. 30fps on my digital camera, I honestly can't tell a difference in terms of smoothness even if I'm recording a fast-paced shot (admitted that a digicam isn't always the highest quality video capture device). Wonder what it would be like with higher quality videos.

I'm betting regardless if 30/48/60, it won't have much effect on accepted formats--at least, not anytime soon.
    
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post #160 of 177
Definitely needs to be done.
If you think about it, 24fps is actually bad for 60Hz operation. since 60Hz is not a direct multiple of 24, you actually lose moments of frames because they are out of sync with the screen (every third refresh of the screen would cut out part of the next frame) . at 30fps the screen refreshes twice for each frame so its in sync. the reason 24fps looks better at 120hz is because 120 is a direct multiple of 24, 30, and 60, so the frames are in sync with the refresh rate.
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