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Desperately need advice on my next build...

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Hello OCN, long time lurker first time poster. I'm in the process of building a new rig but I'm still unsure if I've selected the right components. I'm somewhat of a power user but I never stay up to date continuously... I always research and re-train myself every few years when it's time to put together a new PC.

Well, it's been 6 years now and a lot has changed. The publications/websites I used to respect seem to have fallen out of favor (looking at you, MaximumPC) and I'm just not sure where to turn for sound advice. Any help is appreciated!

Anyway, my goal is to build the most powerful SandyBridge gaming rig I can while keeping noise as absolutely quiet as possible -- on air. I'd also like to reach at least 4.5Ghz. My budget is around $1500-$2000. Here are the components I've already purchased:

- Fractal Design Define R3
- G.Skill RipjawsX 8GB DDR3 1600

And here are the components I'm currently planning on purchasing:

- Corsair AX850
- Asus P8P67 Deluxe
- Intel Core i7-2600K
- Corsair H70
- LITE-ON iHBS212 Blu-ray Burner
- XFX Radeon HD 6970
- OCZ Vertex 3 120GB
- WD Caviar Black 2TB

Now for some justifications and concerns:

PSU - I know that 850W is overkill for my components. However, any excess wattage will only help keep heat down, and 850W is decent future-proofing for another build in 3ish years. But is the thing QUIET? And is the AX series really worth it compared to the HX or TX? I figured the superior efficiency would win out in the end thanks to power bill savings. Am I wrong?

Mobo - I just went with what seemed to be the current standard. I'm not a veteran overclocker so I'm not sure if the improved voltage regulation on the Deluxe model is worth it. I figured it was only an extra $50 bucks and every little OCing edge I can get is worth it if I'm striving for a silent machine.

CPU - The i7-2600K seemed like a no-brainer to me. The 2500k may be cheaper, but $330ish is still cheap (right?) for the extra horsepower. Once again I figured that it would be worth it since I'm trying to keep the machine as quiet as possible.

CPU Cooler - The H70 I'm really hesitant on. I've read that it's loud. Noise is the enemy. However, I can't seem to find a definite answer for the best alternative. I read a lot about some Noctura NH-114-something, but when I check newegg there's like 14 different versions (PC hardware is about 20x more confusing than it was 6 years ago, btw). Then when I do more research every review/website seems to contradict the other. So I turn to you, OCN: What freaking heatsink do I want? I want the quietest overclocking demon there is.

Optical - For the bluray burner I simply went with what I read on newegg reviews. I have absolutely no need for a bluray burner, I just want to rip my bluray movies as fast as possible. Based on the reviews this seemed to be the fastest one? Please advise if I'm wrong...

GPU - I selected the 6970 mainly due to history. I just assume that the 6970 is quieter/cooler than the GTX570. Then some people told me I was wrong. Then others said that THEY were wrong. God dammit, who is actually wrong? Does it depend on the brand? Both cards seem to be in the same league when it comes to performance, but what about heat and noise? I game at 1920x1200 on a Dell UltraSharp U2410.

HDD's - I went with the Caviar Black due to a MaximumPC review. Then some other guys told me MaxPC was full of crap and I should be getting a Samsung Spinpoint F3 instead. Who should I listen to? As for the Vertex 3, I mainly went with hype. Everyone seems to think it's going to be amazing so I figured it's the right one to plan on. When it comes to the SSD I simply want the fastest little devil I can get my hands on.

So there you have it. Sorry for the wall of text but I figure it's better to explain myself now and cut down on some of the questions. I appreciate any help and advise you are willing to give. OCN seems to be the place to be these days when it comes to PC performance knowledge. Thank you in advance!
post #2 of 18
Bump.

I'm not sure. My 750W Corsair has been epically uber-amazing to me. Even survived a small fire from a shorted fan at one point But I've got nothing to speak about Corsair's new lineup. Second opinions?
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Rosemari
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post #3 of 18
mate awesome build you have planned. The H70 is awesome. I have the H50 and 2 xigmatek fans on 12V in push/pull and inside my PC-K62 I hardly hear it. I'd stick with the H70.
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
PSU - I know that 850W is overkill for my components. However, any excess wattage will only help keep heat down, and 850W is decent future-proofing for another build in 3ish years. But is the thing QUIET? And is the AX series really worth it compared to the HX or TX? I figured the superior efficiency would win out in the end thanks to power bill savings. Am I wrong?
Yes you are wrong.

Excess wattage does nothing for heat. Heat increases as power usage increases. There's also some effect from efficiency.

If you want efficiency, find one of the new 80Plus Platinum units. Also, aim for a lower wattage. The reason is that 80Plus only tests down to 20% capacity, so PSU manufacturers don't have an incentive to make their PSUs any more efficient below that. Most PSU efficiency drops at 20% and even the best ones will drop at 10%. 10% of 850W is 85W. A Sandy Bridge CPU with a single latest generation GPU can idle below that. By "idle" I mean stuff like web browsing, AKA non-gaming. So, by buying a huge wattage PSU, you are actually HURTING your efficiency, thus paying more for power and creating less heat.

If you want to stick with Corsair and 80Plus Gold, at least get the smaller 750W model to save a few bucks.

If you were really serious about power savings, check out the Kingwin Lazer Platinum.

If you were really serious about SILENCE, check out the Seasonic X-series Gold. Besides the totally fanless models, even the models with fans run passively below 20% output. Basically the fan would only spin up while you were gaming (and most people game with speakers/headphones on).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
Mobo - I just went with what seemed to be the current standard. I'm not a veteran overclocker so I'm not sure if the improved voltage regulation on the Deluxe model is worth it. I figured it was only an extra $50 bucks and every little OCing edge I can get is worth it if I'm striving for a silent machine.
Seems like the limitation with Sandy Bridge is mostly the amount of voltage you are willing to pump into the CPU, not the heat or the motherboard for the most part unless either were insufficient. You can go a bit cheaper with the Pro version and still get the Intel NIC and SLI support. A lot of the Asus P8P67 series motherboards use pretty much the same design with minor feature tweaks, so I don't think overclocking is impacted (except avoid the lowest end LE model).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
CPU - The i7-2600K seemed like a no-brainer to me. The 2500k may be cheaper, but $330ish is still cheap (right?) for the extra horsepower. Once again I figured that it would be worth it since I'm trying to keep the machine as quiet as possible.
Get the Core i5 2500K. They both overclock to around the same MHz but the 2600K has HyperThreading which can increase heat output while not increasing gaming performance.

Speaking of overclocking, whichever you go with, remember to leave power management ENABLED and voltage on AUTO. If you need more VCORE, use the "voltage offset" setting. The reason I say this is because Sandy Bridge uses very little power when idling (AKA non-gaming) under default settings. You overclock the K chips using the Turbo Boost function. If you fiddle with VCORE or disable power management, then the CPU will be unable to idle properly. The "voltage offset" allows you to still give more voltage at the higher overclocks while allowing the voltage to drop under idle conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
CPU Cooler - The H70 I'm really hesitant on. I've read that it's loud. Noise is the enemy... What freaking heatsink do I want? I want the quietest overclocking demon there is.
"Loud" is in the ears of the beholder. Some people think it to be loud while others think it quiet. IMO with the stock fans it is on the louder side.

Sandy Bridge CPUs actually run really cool, which is to your benefit. I would suggest one of these two heatsinks:
Scythe Ninja 3 (SCNJ-3000)
Thermalright HR-02
The reason is that these two were designed to cool quieter. Pretty much all other high end heatsinks were designed to cool better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
GPU - I selected the 6970 mainly due to history. I just assume that the 6970 is quieter/cooler than the GTX570. Then some people told me I was wrong. Then others said that THEY were wrong. God dammit, who is actually wrong? Does it depend on the brand?
No. It depends on the cooling solution that is on there. The noisiest cooling solution is the one that uses a blower (around 40-50 little fins). The axial fans are quieter (around 5-9 bigger fins). The quietest cards are the ones that use two or three axial fans. Note that they are quiet when not gaming, but all of them will ramp up in speed when you are gaming.

Radeon 6970 with blower (AKA noisy)

Radeon 6970 with two axial fans

GTX 570 with three axial fans

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
HDD's - I went with the Caviar Black due to a MaximumPC review. Then some other guys told me MaxPC was full of crap and I should be getting a Samsung Spinpoint F3 instead. Who should I listen to?
The Caviar Black is probably the best performance 7200RPM drive. However, it is also the noisiest 7200RPM drive. The Samsung F3 is quieter while being almost the same great performance. Doesn't hurt that it is cheaper too.

Note that when I say "almost same performance" I mean that if someone swapped parts on you, you would not be able to tell a difference unless you opened up your computer to look or you benchmarked both setups. This goes for the HDD, motherboard and CPU as far as performance is concerned. SSD and graphics cards are also that way to a lesser degree at similar price points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
As for the Vertex 3, I mainly went with hype. Everyone seems to think it's going to be amazing so I figured it's the right one to plan on. When it comes to the SSD I simply want the fastest little devil I can get my hands on.
It will probably "win" synthetic benchmarks.

I'm a bit leery of the Vertex 3 for two reasons.
1) OCZ has made some shady business decisions in the past (including past couple months).
2) Sandforce controllers are not exactly problem free.

For most reliable, the Intel 320 series would probably be decent. They aren't the fastest, however.

Then again, as long as it is an SSD that supports Trim and it doesn't fail on you, you will probably be happy with it no matter which brand is on the label or which controller is inside it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeschylus View Post
Bump.
Why bump after just an hour? It isn't as if Silent Computing gets much traffic. I haven't been here in a few days and even if you had not bumped, would still be in the top 5 posts.
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post #5 of 18
If you want total silence, do not get the WD Black as stated above. Any 7200 rpm drive is enough to bother me, but the WD Blacks are on the very loud end. I'm at the point where I'm going all SSD because I'm sick of spinning drives in my silent builds and trying 80 diff ways to shut 'em up.

I also find large tower air coolers to be much more quiet and perform almost as well as the all-in-one water cooling units. You want to run a low RPM fan on it and have little resistance. Good options for that are megahalems and noctua. I use a hyper 212+ with a fan at 900 rpm and its silent in my case.

PSU... go with the Seasonic x650 or 750.

GPU... that one is going to be too loud for a silent build. I found myself having to keep a 460 or 5770 in order to be able to keep the thing really quiet and never have to have the fan go over 30% or so. You may need to "downgrade" GPU and try to find a cooler like MSI Twin Frozr, Cyclone... Sapphire Vaporx... aftermarket Arctic Cooling Accelero... etc.

I am very picky when it comes to going silent.
Edited by Jayrock - 4/4/11 at 12:22pm
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post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 
Ok, thanks to everyone who has replied thus far. I've taken your advise into account and decided to swap several components.

Corsair H70 -> Noctua NH-D14. The fanless Thermalright HR-02 won't help me out with OC'ing and reviews on that Scythe Ninja 3 seem to be sketchy. I've finally narrowed down the Noctura everyone seems to rave over and this seems to be the ticket. Quiet but high performing. Just what I need... right?

Asus P8P67 Deluxe -> Asus P8P67 Pro. Seems the extra juice on the mobo is only beneficial if you're trying to push well beyond 5Ghz. I am not. The pro will do!

WD Caviar Black 2TB -> Samsung Spinpoint F3. Ok. I'm taking a leap of faith here and just trusting OCN... but damn, SATA II? Weak. I also REALLY wanted a 2TB drive instead of 1TB... but the 2TB Spinpoint F4 is 5400RPM! And still SATA II. Yikes... I really wish there was a fast, efficient, and quiet 2TB option on the market.

XFX Radeon HD 6970 -> GeForce GTX570. Everything I've read seems to say that the 570 tends to be quieter. Works for me. Now I'm confused as to which card to get! I've narrowed it down to 3: Asus DirectCU II, MSI Twin Frozr II, or that Gigabyte with 3 axial fans. They're all close enough in performance, so I want whatever is quieter and cooler. Which to pick?

Corsair AX850 -> Seasonic X650 Gold. Big thanks to Zap for educating me on PSU's. I do have a concern, however. Since I'm switching GPU's to the GTX570, will 650W be enough to power everything in my system? Assuming that I eventually add 2 more Spinpoint F3's (or F4's), a second GTX570, sound card, and possibly PhysX? Would I be better off with 750 or 850 watts? Newegg doesn't seem to carry any other Seasonic's with the "silent fan" design. Are they out there?


Thanks again for the help. I'm learning a lot on this forum. More than anywhere else, that's for sure (none of the others have even bothered to help). OCN rules.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention that I do want to stick with the 2600K. I plan on doing a LOT of HD video conversion and I'll appreciate the hyper-threading.
Edited by FTC - 4/4/11 at 5:07pm
post #7 of 18
You may want to consider the Thermalright Silver Arrow for the heatsink too. It's performance (and even design) is nearly identical to the NH-D14 but it comes with quieter fans.

SATA II is absolutely no bottleneck to hard drives. Hell, even SATA I is usually not fully utilized.

The X650 will be more than enough for a 570. By the way, the two lower wattage Corsair AX series power supplies (750 and 850) are basically the same as Seasonic X series of the same wattage.

That ASUS DirectCU II is supposed to be a very quiet design. It's quieter than the MSI one, but I haven't checked out reviews of the Gigabyte one.
post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrocks84 View Post
You may want to consider the Thermalright Silver Arrow for the heatsink too. It's performance (and even design) is nearly identical to the NH-D14 but it comes with quieter fans.

SATA II is absolutely no bottleneck to hard drives. Hell, even SATA I is usually not fully utilized.

The X650 will be more than enough for a 570. By the way, the two lower wattage Corsair AX series power supplies (750 and 850) are basically the same as Seasonic X series of the same wattage.

That ASUS DirectCU II is supposed to be a very quiet design. It's quieter than the MSI one, but I haven't checked out reviews of the Gigabyte one.
Thank you, that is good information to know (especially the bit about SATA II). I'll look in to that Silver Arrow, and possibly switch my PSU back to the AX850 in case I decide to SLI.

I've read some other reviews speaking highly of the DirectCU II as well. I think I've found my GPU!

I don't know what I'd have done without this place.
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC View Post
Corsair H70 -> Noctua NH-D14. The fanless Thermalright HR-02 won't help me out with OC'ing and reviews on that Scythe Ninja 3 seem to be sketchy. I've finally narrowed down the Noctura everyone seems to rave over and this seems to be the ticket. Quiet but high performing. Just what I need... right?
Read this review and look at the picture of the motherboard, RAM and CPU cooler part way down the page. That is the retail box cooler which comes with the Sandy Bridge CPUs. Most people consider it to be a heap of trash. However...
"Both my Core i5-2500K and Core i7-2600K hit ~4.4GHz, fully stable, using the stock low-profile cooler."

I'm trying to tell you that super duper cooling is no longer needed for overclocking Sandy Bridge CPUs. Of course if you plan to hit some record overclocks or are chasing benchmarks, that's a whole 'nother story. However, for safe and stable 24/7 overclocks, pretty much anything better than the stock cooler will do.

What limits people these days with Sandy Bridge overclocking is how much voltage they are willing to pump into the CPU. There is a risk that if you pump too much voltage into it, the chip will suffer a premature death. I had a 2500K up to around 4.7-4.8GHz, but I had to push close to 1.5v into it. While it was stable and still ran under 70°C (with a cheap Cooler Master Hyper 212+) I did that just for the yucks. 1.5v is not a safe 24/7 VCORE for Sandy Bridge.

You had emphasized how "quiet" you wanted your system to be. I was just directing you to the best "quiet" coolers on the market, which incidentally are many times better than the stock Intel cooler.



Review comparing Thermalright HR-02 versus Noctua NH-D14

I linked to the pertinent page but feel free to read the rest of the review. They tested the two against each other in three different settings.

1) Passive - AKA no fan at all on it. At lower heat output the temperatures were the same, but as the overclock increased the NH-D14 temperatures started rising, until the system failed while the HR-02 kept going.

2) Low airflow - AKA single low speed fan tested at various RPMs. No problems with either heatsink at maximum overclock. However, the HR-02 had lower temperatures. In fact, the slower they ran the fan, the bigger the lead that the HR-02 had over the NH-D14.

3) High airflow - AKA dual fans tested at various RPMs. At lowest RPM they tied, but the NH-D14 surpassed the HR-02 at higher fan speeds.

Their conclusion?

Quote:
It is especially good for everyone who prefers very, very quiet computers. The HR-02 is the best cooler available today in fan-less mode as well as with a single low-speed fan.
The Scythe Ninja may not perform as well, but it still shares the same design aspects that are suited to low airflow. It is also a lot cheaper. A LOT cheaper. Talking about a $40 heatsink versus a $75 heatsink, plus the Ninja comes with a PWM fan for motherboard control and also a fan controller if you want manual control.
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post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Read this review and look at the picture of the motherboard, RAM and CPU cooler part way down the page. That is the retail box cooler which comes with the Sandy Bridge CPUs. Most people consider it to be a heap of trash. However...
"Both my Core i5-2500K and Core i7-2600K hit ~4.4GHz, fully stable, using the stock low-profile cooler."

I'm trying to tell you that super duper cooling is no longer needed for overclocking Sandy Bridge CPUs. Of course if you plan to hit some record overclocks or are chasing benchmarks, that's a whole 'nother story. However, for safe and stable 24/7 overclocks, pretty much anything better than the stock cooler will do.

What limits people these days with Sandy Bridge overclocking is how much voltage they are willing to pump into the CPU. There is a risk that if you pump too much voltage into it, the chip will suffer a premature death. I had a 2500K up to around 4.7-4.8GHz, but I had to push close to 1.5v into it. While it was stable and still ran under 70°C (with a cheap Cooler Master Hyper 212+) I did that just for the yucks. 1.5v is not a safe 24/7 VCORE for Sandy Bridge.

You had emphasized how "quiet" you wanted your system to be. I was just directing you to the best "quiet" coolers on the market, which incidentally are many times better than the stock Intel cooler.



Review comparing Thermalright HR-02 versus Noctua NH-D14

I linked to the pertinent page but feel free to read the rest of the review. They tested the two against each other in three different settings.

1) Passive - AKA no fan at all on it. At lower heat output the temperatures were the same, but as the overclock increased the NH-D14 temperatures started rising, until the system failed while the HR-02 kept going.

2) Low airflow - AKA single low speed fan tested at various RPMs. No problems with either heatsink at maximum overclock. However, the HR-02 had lower temperatures. In fact, the slower they ran the fan, the bigger the lead that the HR-02 had over the NH-D14.

3) High airflow - AKA dual fans tested at various RPMs. At lowest RPM they tied, but the NH-D14 surpassed the HR-02 at higher fan speeds.

Their conclusion?



The Scythe Ninja may not perform as well, but it still shares the same design aspects that are suited to low airflow. It is also a lot cheaper. A LOT cheaper. Talking about a $40 heatsink versus a $75 heatsink, plus the Ninja comes with a PWM fan for motherboard control and also a fan controller if you want manual control.
I dunno, maybe I'm just old school, but there's no way I would be comfortable with a passive heatsink. Maybe Sandy Bridge can handle it, but I just don't like it. I'd be flipping out and constantly checking my CPU temps!

I think in the big scheme of things I'd rather juts pay the extra $35 for better cooling. I want a stable overclock, but I want a stable overclock as high as freaking possible. From the reviews I've read the NH-D14 is super quiet anyway. I'm thinking with the sound padding inside the case it'll be just about silent at 900rpm. If not then I can experiment with 1 fan I suppose... but I probably won't. I'm shooting for silence, but silence does not outweigh performance. I still want a blazing fast rig. I just want it to run as quiet as possible.

I think I'm about ready to pull the plug on the remaining components. Here's where I'm currently standing:



Plus a Vertex 3 120GB when newegg starts stocking them.

I think the rig is starting to look good now, yes?
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