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Upcoming Fusion Build PSU Advice.

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Hello Gents,
I am looking for a bit of advice on an up and coming [light gaming] ultraportable build I am planning. The case is a small hardshell briefcase, about the size of a pistol case, just tall enough for a mini ITX mobo with a reasonable heatsink, and the 7" Proximus touchscreen I intend on mounting in the top as a screen. The case is too shallow for any kind of add on card, even a half height low profile card, so an onboard GPU is the only way. The logical choice (at least in my eyes) is the AMD Fusion E-350. It offers reasonable CPU performance and superior GPU power vs the ion/ion2 (at least in the reviews I have read). The case is too small for any kind of conventional PSU, so I have to use a direct snap-in solution (Minibox's PicoPSU was the device in mind). Now, I have read that the 80W one is easily sufficient for the 18W TDP Zacate APU, but I am interested in upgrade flexibility, and I have my doubts that the 80W model, with only 4A (7 peak) of +12V would be adequate for the beefier upcoming 65W Llano APU. These PicoPSUs are expensive and I am very cheap (examine the subtle indicators on my sig rig). Some educated guesses at what kind of juice I would need to power a 65W APU would be nice.



DemonRabbit
Edited by DemonRabbit - 4/4/11 at 8:43pm
ZP-01
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
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2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
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ZP-01
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
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post #2 of 11
I really doubt it would be adequate for a 65W Llano
The remaining 15W would be more than taken over by any fans, the chipsets, and the hard drives...
They do sell bigger PicoPSU models (i.e. I think there's a 105W-150W one)
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Already kind of considered the 80W inadequate for llano. I worded my question somewhat poorly. If my understanding of how power distribution works in PCs, the APU draws all its power from the 12V rail. Assuming a 100% conversion efficiency, and my understanding is accurate, a 65W CPU would draw 5.42A from the 12V rail. The Pico 120 offers 7A of 12V, which seems like it would be fine if the CPU is the only 12V draw, but my concern is of how much 12V is drawn from other little bits, in particular the chipset. Hard drive is a 2.5" laptop hard drive, it gets it's juice from the 5V rail. a 40 or 60mm fan cant draw more than a few watts or so.

TL;DR: Do you think the Hudson D3 could drag more than 15W of juice from the 12v rail?
ZP-01
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
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Secondhand 
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ZP-01
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
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Secondhand 
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post #4 of 11
Amperage values aren't necessarily adequate. That remaining few amps would indeed be taken over by the chipset (usually in the 10-15W range), as well as fans (expect up to 0.5A there), and of course the motherboard.
Maxing out the rated amperage (in the unlikely case you do fall within , slightly) is never a good thing to begin with. That's why people usually buy overrated PSUs i.e. 750W for a 125W quad and ~160W GPU, for the efficiency and headroom.

Remember also that the power bricks for the Pico only offer much less wattage than the actual supply.
post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Just did some digging. Apparently the current Hudson M1 FCH is rated for 4W TDP. Going off of what the specs look like, I doubt the D3 chip can take much more than that. Assuming 5.83A (Factoring conversion efficiencies) for the APU, 0.66A (2x the draw of M1) for the NB, 0.5A for the APU fan, that leaves me about 1A on the 12V (for a Pico 150, 8A of +12V) for whatever else is going on. On 5V, i have my 0.5A Scorpio Blue, 0.9A for proximus 7" touchscreen (900ma is the highest current spec I could find for USB, and that screen is driven off of 1 plug), mouse and keyboard current draws (least the ones I am using currently) are negligible. Does anything use 3.3v anymore? I know there are 3.3v pins on the PCIe power pinout, but does anything else use it anymore? If my math is right, assuming I am using 8A of 12V, 1.5A of 5V, i would be drawing about 103W of power, from a 102W fan assisted power brick. I have overloaded things much worse than that in the past. Probably going to just end up spending the extra $20 for the 150W brick. Might as well bring the price to a full 3rd of my summer job's paycheck. Will be worth the reliability. But $100 for a 150W PSU just seems really steep to me.
ZP-01
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
Mouse Pad
Secondhand 
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ZP-01
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
Mouse Pad
Secondhand 
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post #6 of 11
Keep in mind other mobo components may draw 12V but that looks pretty fair to me
I think the 150W power supply comes with a 105W brick though so you'd be at the limit
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
My calculations factored that the motherboard (excluding the chipset, APU and fan) were using an additional amp. that combined with the draw from my monitor and hard drive, brought the total wattage to 103W (not factoring for PSU conversion inefficiencies on the 5v rail, 12v is pass though from the power brick, according to the manual) the prick is rated 102W (8.5A). But it is fan assisted, and looks pretty tough. I have overloaded much sketchier psus much more than ~5 watts in the past and gotten away with it (89W toledo and an 8500GT on a 2001 300W PSU anyone? 89W CPU plus ~40-something watt GPU on a 10A rail)
ZP-01
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
Mouse Pad
Secondhand 
  hide details  
Reply
ZP-01
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
Mouse Pad
Secondhand 
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post #8 of 11
you know, if you looking for ultra-portable... why just not get a good laptop...
RAILIGHT
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Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9R 16 GB Crucial M4 WD Green 1TB|Hitachi HDT7 1TB 2x WD RE4 500g RAID0 
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Seagate Baraccuda 3TB Corsair H70 Windows 7 64 SP1 Ultimate Samsung SyncMaster P2770H Black 27" 
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Samsung SyncMaster 943BWX 19" Razer Lycosa Corsair AX 850 Bitfenix Survivor 
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RAILIGHT
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Intel SB 2500k GIgabyte GA-P67A-UD5-B3 Sapphire Radeon HD 6970 Zotac NVIDIA GeForce GTS 450 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9R 16 GB Crucial M4 WD Green 1TB|Hitachi HDT7 1TB 2x WD RE4 500g RAID0 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Seagate Baraccuda 3TB Corsair H70 Windows 7 64 SP1 Ultimate Samsung SyncMaster P2770H Black 27" 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Samsung SyncMaster 943BWX 19" Razer Lycosa Corsair AX 850 Bitfenix Survivor 
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Razer Naga Razer Vespula Razer Carcharias 
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post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
s few reasons: 1- Upgradeable: Have you ever swapped a laptop's motherboard with an entirely new one before? 2- Price: Despite my estimated $375 (at the current time, with a zacate e-350) pricetag for this project, it still is cheaper than an e-350 netbook. (at least on newegg). 3- Cooling: Despite the advances made in the last couple of years in laptop cooling, the pile of dead laptops under my desk kind of sums up my trust in them. 4- Asthetics/fun: The case I had in mind is basically a double-depth silver hardshell pistol case. Being able to pop that thing open and have a little pc in there ready to go, or to hook up to the nearest big screen to play on is quite an awesome concept to me. Probably going to push it to September/October so I can get a good Llano setup instead of the atom-class Zacate. Might as well do it right the first time. EDIT: Yes I know Llano isn't going to play crysis on max, but the heaviest game I play is cod4, and I don't really see that changing in the near future... most of my other games would play on medium or high on a Zacate.
ZP-01
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
Mouse Pad
Secondhand 
  hide details  
Reply
ZP-01
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x2 555 @ 3.6GHz, 1.4v Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3H Socket AM3+ MSI GTS 450, 1GB GDDR5 G.Skill 2x2GB DDR3 1600, 8-8-8-24 1.5v 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Cav Black AALS 640GB HP DVD+/-RW XP SP3 (Still no reason to switch...) Hanns G 21" LED-Backlit LCD + Polyview 19" 4:3 LCD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
2001 Logitech Multimedia USB Silverstone 1.2Kw Fully Modular PSU Uhh... Raidmax? (Second hand) $11 Logitech Scrollmouse 
Mouse Pad
Secondhand 
  hide details  
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post #10 of 11
Get us a pic of that case!
MOLLY
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MOLLY
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Samsung spinpoint f3 1Tb LG DVD-R IDE Hyper 212+ Windows 7 64 ultimate 
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ASUS VH236H Black 23" 2ms XFX 650W I just don't know anymore... Logitec G500 
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