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[PCR] Is the PC Now Winning the Gaming War? - Page 15

post #141 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post
In the US console piracy is probably not as high, but still a lot of people own two Xbox 360 just for that purpose. In Asia there are shops that will sell you a pre-modded console or mod you console for cheap, so I'm sure the console piracy rate is much higher.
A LOT? No probably something like a tiny fraction of console owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post
I still think it comes downs to this, no single company has put major effort to pursuade devs and publishers to release games for PC. Nvidia only care about adding Physx effect to a game that's already going to be on PC, AMD doesn't really do anything. Microsoft is actively sabatoging PC games in order to promote the Xbox 360. If these companies put some resources to develop games or even just pay devs to make good ports of good console games, the PC gaming market would be much different.
9/10ths of the good games that aren't exclusives are on PC too. You couldn't say this 10 or 15 yrs ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
Lots of games do this, and I agree, it helps. Problem is, PC gamers also love to outcry against anything that seems remotely like DRM, including this.
I know i was 100% completely against Ubisoft's draconian DRM a year or so ago but after seeing Crysis 2 flooded with hackers using the leaked beta, I officially don't care about what type of DRM devs choose to use these days.
    
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post #142 of 212
I'm more against DRM than ever before, and I was never keen on the idea.

Increasingly absurd and invasive DRM is the fuel for piracy. It almost ensures that pirates have a higher quality experience than those who obtain their games legitimately.

I don't pirate games, but I will not buy a game that has not been cracked yet, because of all the baggage non-cracked games usually bring with them.

As for consoles, I would be surprised if some of them, namely the Nintendo DS, didn't have more prevalent piracy than the PC. Honestly, I don't think the DS would do as well without piracy. Nearly everyone I know with a DS pirates games for it, and probably wouldn't even have bought the DS if they knew they would have to pay full price for games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
But what gives you reason to disbelieve that the main reason they aren't developing for the PC is because of piracy?
There is little evidence that piracy strongly influences sales, or that a pirated copy is a lost sale.

There is considerably more evidence that games would be more profitable if they were priced at about 1/3rd of their current levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
They outright state that. Why do you not believe them?
I believe that some of them believe what they are saying, but they are wrong. These publishers are mostly run by old businessmen with a highly outdated and distorted sense of the markets they are in. They are simply out of touch with reality.
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post #143 of 212
"Don't call it a comeback, [PC GAMING] been here for years, Rockin my peers and puttin suckas in fear."
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post #144 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackeyjoe View Post
The problem with this is that only capcom and epic actually help make the games, which is where the problem is. We need the support from devs, not hardware manufacturers...
This.

I believe that PC is walking that thin razors edge. On one hand they could win because every game made is developed on the PC. But there needs to be more developers willing to build titles that will challenge systems like the Civilization series has done since it was first launched. Every one in that series generally makes bottom end Enthusiast Cards cry like a toddler in soiled diapers when maxxed out.

The more developers stop bein lazy about their coding the more the PC Enthusiast will run to their local store, Amazon, Steam etc and buy.

I'm probably one of the few people here who have been into gaming since it started and I hope there will be more people gaming on there PCs' for years to come long after they dig my hole, kick me in and throw dirt on me.

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post #145 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
I'm more against DRM than ever before, and I was never keen on the idea.

Increasingly absurd and invasive DRM is the fuel for piracy. It almost ensures that pirates have a higher quality experience than those who obtain their games legitimately.

I don't pirate games, but I will not buy a game that has not been cracked yet, because of all the baggage non-cracked games usually bring with them.

As for consoles, I would be surprised if some of them, namely the Nintendo DS, didn't have more prevalent piracy than the PC. Honestly, I don't think the DS would do as well without piracy. Nearly everyone I know with a DS pirates games for it, and probably wouldn't even have bought the DS if they knew they would have to pay full price for games.
There are untold numbers of games that were pirated to hell and back with no DRM. Pirates persist and in many cases are worse when they get what they want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
There is little evidence that piracy strongly influences sales, or that a pirated copy is a lost sale.
That's not what he was saying and he's tried to correct that on multiple occassions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
There is considerably more evidence that games would be more profitable if they were priced at about 1/3rd of their current levels.
No, there isn't 1 shred of proof regarding that. You're analyzing the data wrong, trust me on this. That's regarding piracy and developing countries, pricing where US vs. ______currency is an issue or regarding pricing after the 1st quarter of a release.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
I believe that some of them believe what they are saying, but they are wrong. These publishers are mostly run by old businessmen with a highly outdated and distorted sense of the markets they are in. They are simply out of touch with reality.
Most business executives are.
    
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post #146 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by petran79 View Post
Games are now considerably more expensive to produce. If you include the royalties consoles charge, smaller game productions are better suited to pc.

But even bigger productions lack. Pc games used to have great covers, boxsets,game manuals and extras, something that would make a pirated copy pointless. Now with digital distribution there is not such a great difference.

Console games covers and manuals look the same.

Or it has more to do that game publishing industry became full of bean counters that have never written a single line of code in their lifes and think that protection can last permanently and not for a few months so as to adjust profits accordingly.
Honestly, I think it's because devs/publishers realized that the majority of people would rather see more game content than have part of the development costs go towards extra boxed materials. I do miss the big thick manuals that used to come with PC games though... Starsiege was the best example of that ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post
isn't there piracy on consoles, what with the J-tags and the fact that you can pay very little money for a pre-modded console off the street? this is very prevalent outside the USA, and somewhat to an extent here.
Not really. I've never met anyone who uses a modded console. I've met many people who actively pirate stuff on their computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
There is little evidence that piracy strongly influences sales, or that a pirated copy is a lost sale.
It doesn't matter what the evidence says, it's what the developers/publishers believe. Because they are the ones that make the games. If they don't want to make the games because they believe piracy is too rampant on the PC platform, then it is BECAUSE of pirates that we have FEWER games to choose from on the PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
There is considerably more evidence that games would be more profitable if they were priced at about 1/3rd of their current levels.
LOL, I DARE you to try to prove that!
post #147 of 212
Nah. they like consoles because they have an unfair amount of control over the end user. The "Apple" approach is being taken by every company now. They want you to just buy overly branded products and have 0 understanding of how anything works. Thinking of it as THEIR game and not YOUR game. PC's we have way too much freedom to do thingts like run our OWN chat clients, mod the game, hacks for speed improvements. They HATE that. Everyone is gonna be as locked down as Sony / Apple.

it is absolutelkey obsird that I have to use XBOX Live to play an XBOX game online. The developers should have th option of making their own gaming service. <SFT and Sony shouldn't have ANY hand in the online community for the consoles. Iy should all be done the PS2 way. No network, no organization. Every game should upkeep its own network. this opens the door to innovations. It also makes it impossible for us to be charged the Live subscription, which is essentially 'protection money' for MSFT. They justify it with services no one asked for, leaderboards and youtube postings of Halo 3 games. The same nonsense could have been attained through Bungie just adding that into the game, perhaps as DLC.

PSN has no reason to exist.

Oh, and I have modded every console I've ever owned. Including my PS3, which was not worth the time it took. The reason people with a piracy / modding mentality choose PC's is because the end result is better and there is less headache. You can only play SNES emulated Bust a move on your sega DC so many times...
Edited by WhiteCrane - 4/9/11 at 2:54pm
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post #148 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
There is little evidence that piracy strongly influences sales, or that a pirated copy is a lost sale.
Let's consider music then. If said artist releases a CD with 10 tracks, and they produce 1'000'000 copies and sell them world wide. However, there is 4'000'000 users listening to their songs. In total, that leaves 3'000'000 listeners who did no purchase the album and thus had the artist lose a potential of 3'000'000 sales.

Now lets apply this to the PC gaming scene. Crysis releases 1'480'000 copies and sell them world wide. They spend roughly 23 million developing their game. If they make only 20 dollars per sale, that leaves them with only 6'600'000 in profits. If they ever decide to make another game, they'll be looking at only 6'600'000 dollars at funding the project. Frankly, this leads to crap games.

I'm not exactly sure what the exact amount of pirated copies are for crysis, but it did outrun their sales. So lets say 1'500'000 people have downloaded crysis through pirated means. This leaves 30'000'000 dollars in potentials sales and funding for their next project non-existent.

Frankly, pirates who think that a pirated copy does not reflect a loss sale is greatly impacting the decline of PC gaming.
post #149 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Let's consider music then. If said artist releases a CD with 10 tracks, and they produce 1'000'000 copies and sell them world wide. However, there is 4'000'000 users listening to their songs. In total, that leaves 3'000'000 listeners who did no purchase the album and thus had the artist lose a potential of 3'000'000 sales.

Now lets apply this to the PC gaming scene. Crysis releases 1'480'000 copies and sell them world wide. They spend roughly 23 million developing their game. If they make only 20 dollars per sale, that leaves them with only 6'600'000 in profits. If they ever decide to make another game, they'll be looking at only 6'600'000 dollars at funding the project. Frankly, this leads to crap games.

I'm not exactly sure what the exact amount of pirated copies are for crysis, but it did outrun their sales. So lets say 1'500'000 people have downloaded crysis through pirated means. This leaves 30'000'000 dollars in potentials sales and funding for their next project non-existent.

Frankly, pirates who think that a pirated copy does not reflect a loss sale is greatly impacting the decline of PC gaming.
Your economics are messed up.

Crysis : 23mil invested, gross 30mil,Profit : 6mil

That was what you were saying yes ?

The Profit is just that, profit. its not the budget for the next game.
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post #150 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwnography View Post
Your economics are messed up.

Crysis : 23mil invested, gross 30mil,Profit : 6mil

That was what you were saying yes ?

The Profit is just that, profit. its not the budget for the next game.
No, your business sense is messed up. Generally speaking the profit a dev makes for one title determines the budget for the sequel. It's not 1:1, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think profit has a HUGE impact on future budgets.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 4/9/11 at 4:03pm
    
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