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post #11 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey_Vince;13036559 
Yeah, I've heard that when overclocking to higher frequencies you should turn LLC off, unfortunately, I cannot find that option under the CPU, devices, or ai overclock options in the bios. (Any guidance in helping me find this setting would be appreciated)

Also, about pushing to 1.56 - as stated above, my temps are hitting 57c under 100% load, I've heard that 62c is the max, but I've also heard that 55c is the safest temp?

Any confirmation on those numbers?

First of all, what program are you using to monitor temps? I recommend HWMonitor from the makers of CPU-Z. Second, monitor the "CPU" temperature, not the core temperature. Some people may say otherwise, but I've taken my core temperature over 70c with full stability while the CPU temp sits happy at less than 60c.

Second, LLC is a very useful tool, especially with high overclocks. Anyone who says otherwise is subscribing to an old theory of "high voltage spikes" without actually doing any testing themselves. True, LLC did cause high voltage spikes on some motherboards, but I have yet to see any such occurence on new motherboards, including my own. Try to find LLC in your BIOS (maybe your manual might help). It might lead to higher temps, but should allow you to pump less voltage through the chip. You see, under load your CPU voltage actually drops. With LLC off you have to shoot for a higher voltage, so that when the CPU loads, the loaded voltage is stable. With LLC on what you put in the BIOS is pretty much what you see at load.
    
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post #12 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildcatWhiz;13037670 
First of all, what program are you using to monitor temps? I recommend HWMonitor from the makers of CPU-Z. Second, monitor the "CPU" temperature, not the core temperature. Some people may say otherwise, but I've taken my core temperature over 70c with full stability while the CPU temp sits happy at less than 60c.

Second, LLC is a very useful tool, especially with high overclocks. Anyone who says otherwise is subscribing to an old theory of "high voltage spikes" without actually doing any testing themselves. True, LLC did cause high voltage spikes on some motherboards, but I have yet to see any such occurence on new motherboards, including my own. Try to find LLC in your BIOS (maybe your manual might help). It might lead to higher temps, but should allow you to pump less voltage through the chip. You see, under load your CPU voltage actually drops. With LLC off you have to shoot for a higher voltage, so that when the CPU loads, the loaded voltage is stable. With LLC on what you put in the BIOS is pretty much what you see at load.

Sorry for the delay in response

I use Speedfan (4.43) and Core Temp to monitor my temperatures and the numbers I was giving were the values for the core temp

I ran through my entire Motherboard manual and was unable to find anything related to Loadline Calibration, so I did a search and came up with this message board:

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/853509-extremely-high-load-line-calibration-voltage.html

where it is mentioned that the M4N98TD's CPU VDDA Voltage setting is somewhat "related" to LLC
(the settings here range from 2.50V to 2.80V with a 0.10V interval)

Do you still suggest that I increase the processor voltage to 1.6V+ and continue with the multiplier at x20?

Thanks for keeping up with my Thread, I thought I had a hold onto this but I seem to be getting more lost the deeper we go.
    
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post #13 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey_Vince;13039676 
Sorry for the delay in response

I use Speedfan (4.43) and Core Temp to monitor my temperatures and the numbers I was giving were the values for the core temp

I ran through my entire Motherboard manual and was unable to find anything related to Loadline Calibration, so I did a search and came up with this message board:

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/853509-extremely-high-load-line-calibration-voltage.html

where it is mentioned that the M4N98TD's CPU VDDA Voltage setting is somewhat "related" to LLC
(the settings here range from 2.50V to 2.80V with a 0.10V interval)

Do you still suggest that I increase the processor voltage to 1.6V+ and continue with the multiplier at x20?

Thanks for keeping up with my Thread, I thought I had a hold onto this but I seem to be getting more lost the deeper we go.

Based on some Google searching, it would seem that your board actually doesn't have LLC. Bummer. 1.6v on the CPU is really pushing it. A lot of folks consider 1.55v as the safe upper limit, but I've certainly seen others go to 1.6v. Can you measure your CPU voltage under load in Windows? E.g. using CPU-Z or HWMonitor?
    
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post #14 of 41
The M4N98td-evo does not have LLC mad.gif
Most of these boards average about 500mv of vdroop.(.050v)
I need 1.36v to have 1.31v at load.
I would use more ref clock(fsb),if you are 250 stable,set the cpu multi to 15 for 3.8, then bump ref clock 5mhz at a time and test.
See if that will get you higher.
At 250 ref clock you may have to drop 1 or 2 multi's on HT and NB to keep them close to stock.

Here is a handy settings guide that shows.. well you'll see http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/594829-phenom-ii-cpu-northbridge-ram-chart.html

Good luck

Gyro

ps,if you are interested we have a club here http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherboards/946302-asus-m4n98td-evo-owners-club.html
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post #15 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyro;13040273 
The M4N98td-evo does not have LLC mad.gif
Most of these boards average about 500mv of vdroop.(.050v)
I need 1.36v to have 1.31v at load.
I would use more ref clock(fsb),if you are 250 stable,set the cpu multi to 15 for 3.8, then bump ref clock 5mhz at a time and test.
See if that will get you higher.
At 250 ref clock you may have to drop 1 or 2 multi's on HT and NB to keep them close to stock.

Here is a handy settings guide that shows.. well you'll see http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/594829-phenom-ii-cpu-northbridge-ram-chart.html

Good luck

Gyro

ps,if you are interested we have a club here http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherboards/946302-asus-m4n98td-evo-owners-club.html

Well there you have it. You'll have to set a pretty high CPU voltage in order to be stable under load. In essence, your 1.55v might actually be a 1.50v (or less). Kinda stinks, but it is what it is. I wouldn't set anything over 1.55v personally, unless maybe you decide to do water cooling or something exotic.

That said, maybe a multiplier and FSB combination overclock is in order, as suggested above. Sometimes it's worth a shot if you aren't stable with a pure multiplier overclock.
    
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post #16 of 41
74c load and still stable? Are you sure?
    
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post #17 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey_Vince;13026023 
My set up is:

AMD Phenom II X4 965 - currently at 3.8GHz (200MHz x 19 @ bios 1.425)
CPU-Z shows the voltage as 1.392...
Idles 38c, 100% Load is 51c


GeForce GTX 480 - 805MHz, Mem - 1058MHz, Shader - 1609MHz
Idles 37c, 100% load 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxRZxX;13040361 
74c load and still stable? Are you sure?


That's not bad for a 480. eek.gifbiggrin.gif


Gyro
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post #18 of 41
Thread Starter 
Gyro,

I've taken your advice and have started snailing my way along with the FSB overclock - I'll let you know how it turns out

Wildcat Whiz,

What I don't understand is my multiplier is stable x19 w/ 1.425 volts, an increase of just 200MHz necessitates such a large increase in voltage? (1.425V-1.55V+)

I know the numbers don't necessarily work like that... but if you (or someone) could further educate me on the subject I would be very grateful.

XxRZxX,

Yes my 480 is rock solid under 99% load (Metro 2033, Just Cause 2, Crysis 1 and 2) with temps at 73-74c - I cheat because I turn the fan to 85% and just deal with the noise (plus my cable management is pretty good and I have 8 fans in my antec 1200 lol)

anyway, I really appreciate the replies and I will check out club
    
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post #19 of 41
Thread Starter 
Update:

Test 1:
CPU - 16 x 240 - 3.840GHZ @ 1.45V (CPU-Z showed 1.375-13.9) stable in prime95 for 30+ mins (RAM was still at 1600 w/ 7-8-7-24 @1.66V) HT - 1940 and CPU/NB - 2140 @ 1.325V

Gave me the Confidence to attempt what ultimately became Test 2:
CPU - 17 x 240 - 4GHz @ 1.525V (CPU-Z showed around 1.4V)
This resulted in an immediate BSOD
(on a side note, I went to check my DRAM voltage and it looked like it reset to auto - which is not nearly enough, instead of simply setting it to 1.66V I changed my approach)

Test 3
CPU - 16 x 250 - 4GHz @ 1.5375 (CPU-Z shows 1.424)
BSOD after 20 mins

I will keep on trucking along
    
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post #20 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey_Vince;13042658 
Update:

Test 1:
CPU - 16 x 240 - 3.840GHZ @ 1.45V (CPU-Z showed 1.375-13.9) stable in prime95 for 30+ mins (RAM was still at 1600 w/ 7-8-7-24 @1.66V) HT - 1940 and CPU/NB - 2140 @ 1.325V

Gave me the Confidence to attempt what ultimately became Test 2:
CPU - 17 x 240 - 4GHz @ 1.525V (CPU-Z showed around 1.4V)
This resulted in an immediate BSOD
(on a side note, I went to check my DRAM voltage and it looked like it reset to auto - which is not nearly enough, instead of simply setting it to 1.66V I changed my approach)

Test 3
CPU - 16 x 250 - 4GHz @ 1.5375 (CPU-Z shows 1.424)
BSOD after 20 mins

I will keep on trucking along

You are getting MASSIVE vdroop. 4Ghz on a 9x5 is normally going to take at least 1.45v if not as much as 1.55v depending on the chip. The fact that CPU-Z is showing 1.4v is not so good.

And to answer your earlier question about needing a large voltage increase for only 200Mhz...That happens. For me, anything over 4.0Ghz requires huge amounts of voltage too (I'm talking about 1.45 for 4Ghz versus 1.55v for even an extra 50Mhz). The scaling between voltage and Mhz is not linear in the slightest. Granted, you can make it a bit more linear, but the only way to do that is to further lower temps. As many on here say, "AMD loves the cold". Oftentimes at lower temperatures you can achieve higher overclocks at less voltage.

Keep trucking. I'm going to guess that 1.55v (about 1.4v after droop) in the BIOS is going to give you a 3.9Ghz overclock. You may need to try as much as 1.6v in the BIOS (maybe turns out to be 1.5v or so after droop) to hit that mystical 4Ghz. But, I wouldn't be too keep on running 1.6v 24/7. Your call. Either way, a 3.8-3.9Ghz overclock on your chip is still a nice overclock.

Good luck!
    
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