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Has SLI become a norm in games? - Page 3  

post #21 of 72
Nvidia based AMD boards horrible.

Stick to AMD chipsets, AMD cards scale better anyway.
post #22 of 72
I play all my game in SLI GTX 580 no problem at ALL...

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post #23 of 72
Just got my gtx 560ti today.. smooth as silk. runs better than the choppy stutter crap sli 8800gt's

Never had a problem sli 8800gt's on my socket 939, but I will never waste my time or money doin that again.

biggest single card, dedicate second to physx. easiest solution. no headaches.
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post #24 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by FnkDctr View Post
1000 reps and you dont know what you're talkin about. This will be fun.

1.Wrong. Go play sins of solar empire in sli and tell me both cards are used 100%. SLI does NOT mean that BOTH cards are used for the SAME PURPOSES. It only processed minute textures and detail. Go read more if you doubt me.
No, you are the one who is wrong my friend.

If you are running SLI, all SLI'd cards are doing the same thing (aside from a timing differential). Cards operating in SLI simply alternate rendering frames (although split-frame rendering is also possible, it is VERY rarely used anymore ... I believe only Crossfire ever uses this rendering method).

If you think SLI means (or even CAN mean) that multiple cards are working on two totally different 'purposes', dictated by the code that's written in the game itself, then you have a total misunderstanding of what SLI is.

The only time anything remotely like what you are talking about happens is if you use 'SLI' AA ... (which is not actually SLI). I can explain what I mean if you need me to, just ask

I take that back, there's another exception: Whenever GPU PhysX is running on your SLI set you'll find very strange GPU usage patterns happening w/your cards. This is because PhysX can only run on one GPU.

I could go into details on this whole subject but the bottom-line is, as stated, you'll see some strange usage patterns, and all SLI'd cards aren't doing the exact same stuff in this case, because one is also handling physX.

But aside from physX, or running 'SLI' AA ... all cards in SLI are all doing the same thing ... preparing frames for rendering (and all the cards that have monitors plugged into them of course send out rendered frames to these monitors if they're enabled).

Quote:
Wrong. Any rendering that is not native or designed into the software is forced. I guess this is new to you? Hold on this is my favorite line of the entire fail post of yours.

"There HAS to be an SLi profile for the game in order for SLi to work, and there's nothing you can change in the settings of NVCP to 'force' SLi."

LMAO When I find screenshots of me forcing SLI in Aion the DAY IT CAME OUT. Then I will post it and laugh in your face. Again. Change the render mode to try different types and you will see SLI temps increase on both cards and FPS nearly double. I dont need to prove my point, go read more.
I didn't say you can't change the render mode to different types and have SLI still work ... but it has to already work via there being a SLI profile in the driver for the game.

What I *did* say if you would READ, is that there's nothing you can can change in the NVCP to make SLI work if there's no SLI profile in the driver for the game.

Put it this way: IF you can find the game (like Aion) there in the dropdown in NVCP in order to be ABLE to change rendering modes for that game? THEN YOU ALMOST CERTAINLY HAVE AN SLI PROFILE FOR THE GAME.

The SLI profile is just a subsection of the game profile. And they pretty much always populate the necessary SLI information in the SLI subsection in the game profile. It's POSSIBLE it could be a bad profile though ... it's POSSIBLE that your changing the rendering mode caused SLI to work more efficiently, if nV chose the wrong default rendering mode, and you changed it to a better one. But the SLI profile was there already. That's my point.

You CAN, however, 'force SLI support' on a game for which there is no profile by changing the name of the .exe to a game that HAS an SLI profile, because SLI profiles are implemented based on the names of the executables. It doesn't always work, but it *can* work.

You also can 'make your own' SLI profile using nV Inspector (used to be able to with nHancer in days past too), but this is NOT NVCP. Which is what I spoke specifically of.

Telling me to 'Go Read More' ... lulz ... yeah, I don't need to buddy. And I don't care if you want to 'prove your point' or not. I know what I'm talking about

Quote:
3 is the only thing you got right. You are a genius! Who thought 2 cards would alternate rendering! give him a rep!

I play Crysis 1 and 2, all assassins creed, res evil 5, aa3, tf2, codmw2, dragon age 1 and 2, guild wars, mafia 1 and 2, nfs pro street, test drive unlimited, empire total war, and the list goes on of major blockbusters.

Just because it "supports" sli, doesnt mean both cards are being used fully, watch your temps. Batman never SLI even for me. Sins of Solar empire never will.
Again, you implied that you forced SLI to work by 'forcing alternate frame rendering' but that the results were unsatisfactory (less FPS). But Alternate Frame Rendering is HOW SLI WORKS. And again, if you *chose* the game in the NVCP dropdown, then that game almost certainly has an SLI profile, or it wouldn't be in the dropdown.

BTW, SLI works perfectly in Batman AA. Like I said above, though ... if you have PhysX running on one of the GPU's in an SLI set, the usage pattern will look very strange/uneven. Turn off PhysX and you'll get even (or close to even) GPU usage on each card.

Quote:
And as for micro stuttering? It happens at all fps, it has nothing to do with how many fps, its the timing gap in between the frames rendered.

I was just getting 400+ fps on guild wars and getting micro stutter. is that above 30?

And it doesnt happen on just some games some times, when it happens, it happens for almost all games.

Now i have to go make an nvidia profile for every game because I cheaped out and went sli? no thanks, unless im building a $5000 serious rig, no reason to ever dump money and time into sli again.

You are obviously new to SLI, go back and read my post, then feel free to prove anything different. Thanks.
If you go back and read what I WROTE, I said microstutter is only NOTICEABLE at low FPS, I didn't say it only OCCURS at low FPS. Learn to read, dude.

And to be accurate, microstutter is a phenomenon characterized by a cyclical and roughly consistent alternation between longer and shorter frametimes (the time it takes to render each frame).

I've been running SLI for many years now, dude. I know how it works, and what it is.

And no, you don't have to go make a SLI profile for every game. nV makes them for you, and puts them in the drivers (or patches), all the time, as new games come out. Sometimes you have to wait a bit, but they almost always do it for you.

You seem to base some of your premises on the notion that games have 'native support' of SLI, wherein code in the game itself will utilize one card to do ... something ... textures, and a second card to do something else, like details (to use your vague descriptions above).

Now, I don't know if there are games that can do this ... there may be, and maybe SOASE is one that can. But if it DOES ... THAT IS NOT SLI

SLI is ABSOLUTELY NOT 2-4 cards doing distinct parts of the rendering process, with this workload being distributed by software code that's in the game, like you describe in different parts of your post.

SLI is implemented by Forceware, using multiple cards to do alternate frame rendering (or possibly split-screen rendering, I'm not positive it can't use that method so I won't say it can't, but SLI is always one of those two).

If one card is doing 'textures' and one doing 'details' based on code in the game ... then your cards are NOT RUNNING IN SLI.

The problem is you've made OBSERVATIONS (like things related to temps/gpu usage/changes you make in NVCP, fps changes that occur, etc) and you THINK you have an 'understanding' based on these observations ... but in reality you don't really understand what's going on and/or you don't know the definition of certain terms ... like what SLI friggin IS
Edited by brettjv - 4/9/11 at 4:55am
    
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post #25 of 72
I run (2) GTX 460's. I run them in sli. Most games are patched for it if they dont support it out of the box. I find it to be more of a tech-tweak, fun to play around with feature. I play at 1920x1200 resolution, and in most cases, I do not find that I would have needed sli. i think the 3 monitor setup and 3d would be awesome to give a shot, however I would have to steal monitors off of my wife and daughters pcs in order to do it, and then go buy the glasses. No time real soon. God forbid they be without facebook for any measurable amount of time. Anyways, good luck with whatever you decide to do. I honestly think if you want something to play around with, go sli, and find out for yourself how much fun it is. I have had a blast with it. 9800gts - 460gtx's both configs in sli. I loved messing with them to get them doing exactly what I wanted them to do.
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post #26 of 72
No mate they dont
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post #27 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
No, you are the one who is wrong my friend.

If you are running SLI, all SLI'd cards are doing the same thing (aside from a timing differential). Cards operating in SLI simply alternate rendering frames (although split-frame rendering is also possible, it is VERY rarely used anymore ... I believe only Crossfire ever uses this rendering method).

If you think SLI means (or even CAN mean) that multiple cards are working on two totally different 'purposes', dictated by the code that's written in the game itself, then you have a total misunderstanding of what SLI is.

The only time anything remotely like what you are talking about happens is if you use 'SLI' AA ... (which is not actually SLI). I can explain what I mean if you need me to, just ask

I take that back, there's another exception: Whenever GPU PhysX is running on your SLI set you'll find very strange GPU usage patterns happening w/your cards. This is because PhysX can only run on one GPU.

I could go into details on this whole subject but the bottom-line is, as stated, you'll see some strange usage patterns, and all SLI'd cards aren't doing the exact same stuff in this case, because one is also handling physX.

But aside from physX, or running 'SLI' AA ... all cards in SLI are all doing the same thing ... preparing frames for rendering (and all the cards that have monitors plugged into them of course send out rendered frames to these monitors if they're enabled).

I didn't say you can't change the render mode to different types and have SLI still work ... but it has to already work via there being a SLI profile in the driver for the game.

What I *did* say if you would READ, is that there's nothing you can can change in the NVCP to make SLI work if there's no SLI profile in the driver for the game.

Put it this way: IF you can find the game (like Aion) there in the dropdown in NVCP in order to be ABLE to change rendering modes for that game? THEN YOU ALMOST CERTAINLY HAVE AN SLI PROFILE FOR THE GAME.

The SLI profile is just a subsection of the game profile. And they pretty much always populate the necessary SLI information in the SLI subsection in the game profile. It's POSSIBLE it could be a bad profile though ... it's POSSIBLE that your changing the rendering mode caused SLI to work more efficiently, if nV chose the wrong default rendering mode, and you changed it to a better one. But the SLI profile was there already. That's my point.

You CAN, however, 'force SLI support' on a game for which there is no profile by changing the name of the .exe to a game that HAS an SLI profile, because SLI profiles are implemented based on the names of the executables. It doesn't always work, but it *can* work.

You also can 'make your own' SLI profile using nV Inspector (used to be able to with nHancer in days past too), but this is NOT NVCP. Which is what I spoke specifically of.

Telling me to 'Go Read More' ... lulz ... yeah, I don't need to buddy. And I don't care if you want to 'prove your point' or not. I know what I'm talking about

Again, you implied that you forced SLI to work by 'forcing alternate frame rendering' but that the results were unsatisfactory (less FPS). But Alternate Frame Rendering is HOW SLI WORKS. And again, if you *chose* the game in the NVCP dropdown, then that game almost certainly has an SLI profile, or it wouldn't be in the dropdown.

BTW, SLI works perfectly in Batman AA. Like I said above, though ... if you have PhysX running on one of the GPU's in an SLI set, the usage pattern will look very strange/uneven. Turn off PhysX and you'll get even (or close to even) GPU usage on each card.

If you go back and read what I WROTE, I said microstutter is only NOTICEABLE at low FPS, I didn't say it only OCCURS at low FPS. Learn to read, dude.

And to be accurate, microstutter is a phenomenon characterized by a cyclical and roughly consistent alternation between longer and shorter frametimes (the time it takes to render each frame).

I've been running SLI for many years now, dude. I know how it works, and what it is.

And no, you don't have to go make a SLI profile for every game. nV makes them for you, and puts them in the drivers (or patches), all the time, as new games come out. Sometimes you have to wait a bit, but they almost always do it for you.

You seem to base some of your premises on the notion that games have 'native support' of SLI, wherein code in the game itself will utilize one card to do ... something ... textures, and a second card to do something else, like details (to use your vague descriptions above).

Now, I don't know if there are games that can do this ... there may be, and maybe SOASE is one that can. But if it DOES ... THAT IS NOT SLI

SLI is ABSOLUTELY NOT 2-4 cards doing distinct parts of the rendering process, with this workload being distributed by software code that's in the game, like you describe in different parts of your post.

SLI is implemented by Forceware, using multiple cards to do alternate frame rendering (or possibly split-screen rendering, I'm not positive it can't use that method so I won't say it can't, but SLI is always one of those two).

If one card is doing 'textures' and one doing 'details' based on code in the game ... then your cards are NOT RUNNING IN SLI.

The problem is you've made OBSERVATIONS (like things related to temps/gpu usage/changes you make in NVCP, fps changes that occur, etc) and you THINK you have an 'understanding' based on these observations ... but in reality you don't really understand what's going on and/or you don't know the definition of certain terms ... like what SLI friggin IS
Trolololololol

For real, im not going to sit here and argue with a parrot. You dont know what you're talking about, you never will, because you didnt read, you just said the same thing over again.

Go google kid. SLI do not always perform the same tasks. I cant believe im saying this again. I feel as ignorant as you.

"What I *did* say if you would READ, is that there's nothing you can can change in the NVCP to make SLI work if there's no SLI profile in the driver for the game. "

I forced alternate frame rendering 1 and 2 in aion to get both gpu's to work since the game was not supporting SLI at the time of release. Go test it, im not proving anything to a troll who doesnt read.

THE GAME DIDNT HAVE AN SLI PROFILE. BUT I VERIFIED IT WITH SCREENSHOTS OF FRAMES PER SECOND INCREASE AND DUAL TEMPS IN SPEEDFAN. CAN YOU READ THIS NOW?

"And no, you don't have to go make a SLI profile for every game. nV makes them for you, and puts them in the drivers (or patches), all the time, as new games come out. Sometimes you have to wait a bit, but they almost always do it for you."

what? open nvidia control panel. gaming profiles. each game for render type according to your sli settings. exactly what I was talking about. Who makes what for you? Are you brain dead kid?

"If you go back and read what I WROTE, I said microstutter is only NOTICEABLE at low FPS, I didn't say it only OCCURS at low FPS. Learn to read, dude."

"I was just getting 400+ fps on guild wars and getting micro stutter. is that above 30? "

Didnt I just say I was getting over 400 frames per second and still noticed microstutter? I think your brain has a micro stutter dude. Stop replying without reading.

I honestly read 1/3 of your post, seen you repeated the same nonsence and were ignorant enough to respond without doing any research. Please show links or stop the incorrect information.
Edited by FnkDctr - 4/9/11 at 6:36am
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post #28 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by FnkDctr View Post
Trolololololol

For real, im not going to sit here and argue with a parrot. You dont know what you're talking about, you never will, because you didnt read, you just said the same thing over again.

Go google kid. SLI do not always perform the same tasks. I cant believe im saying this again. I feel as ignorant as you.
What the hell are you talking about "I didn't read"? I responded to EXACTLY what you said ... are you just trying to be annoying?


FOR REAL, SLI IS ALTERNATE FRAME RENDERING. BOTH CARDS DOING THE SAME THING (physX excepted), taking turns rendering frames.

Caveat: SLI may also be able to work using SFR, in which case one card does the top half of the frame, the other does the bottom half. I won't say it can't because I'm not positive about that.

But ... persuant to your 2nd post: if you think SLI can be driven by game code directing one card to 'do textures' and the other to 'do details' (whatever that means ) you are DEAD WRONG. That IS NOT SLI. PERIOD. END-OF-STORY.

BTW, I'm 44 years old, KID

Quote:
"What I *did* say if you would READ, is that there's nothing you can can change in the NVCP to make SLI work if there's no SLI profile in the driver for the game. "

I forced alternate frame rendering 1 and 2 in aion to get both gpu's to work since the game was not supporting SLI at the time of release. Go test it, im not proving anything to a troll who doesnt read.

THE GAME DIDNT HAVE AN SLI PROFILE. BUT I VERIFIED IT WITH SCREENSHOTS OF FRAMES PER SECOND INCREASE AND DUAL TEMPS IN SPEEDFAN. CAN YOU READ THIS NOW?

"And no, you don't have to go make a SLI profile for every game. nV makes them for you, and puts them in the drivers (or patches), all the time, as new games come out. Sometimes you have to wait a bit, but they almost always do it for you."

what? open nvidia control panel. gaming profiles. each game for render type according to your sli settings. exactly what I was talking about. Who makes what for you? Are you brain dead kid?
Am *I* brain-dead? That is pretty hilarious. You are the one who doesn't friggin understand the basic concepts involved here ... where do you think that list of game profiles comes from, space?

So ... this whole SLI profile thing ... I'm going to 'splain it to you nice and slow, from the top, okay? It's really pretty simple, try to keep up:

  • Game Profiles are part of the Forceware driver package (made by nVidia).
  • Games with profiles in the driver are the ones that are available for choosing in the dropdown, and customizing the various settings for.
  • New drivers (or patches) = new game profiles added (by nVidia) to the driver package for newer games.
  • The 'SLI profile' for a specific game = a collection of SLI-related settings, which is a subset of a Game Profile for that specific game.
  • The 'SLI rendering method' = A subset of the total collection of settings that make up a SLI profile. It's also the one setting of the SLI profile that is actually exposed to the user through NVCP. The others are hidden unless you use nHancer or nV Inspector.

When a new driver set or patch comes out, newer games get game profiles. Part of the game profile is a collection of settings that enable SLI for that game. Having a game profile for a game is ESSENTIAL for SLI to work for that game (again, unless you mess with altering .exe names).

The basis for SLI support in any game is a game profile that points at the .exe of the game. AION had to already HAVE a profile (and hence the possibility of SLI working was already there) in order for you to even be able to CHOOSE AION from the dropdown and make game-specific changes for that game.

If SLI did not work in AION when you first got the game, but then you got SLI to work by choosing AION from the dropdown in the NVCP, and altering the rendering method, what you did was CORRECT ONE SETTING in the EXISTING SLI profile (that nV made for the game) that was previously INCORRECT (or possibly left NULL), and thus you made SLI work correctly for AION.

If you want to call that 'enabling SLI', fine. But the SLI profile was there, because that's part of the game profile. And you couldn't have 'enabled SLI' in this way without the game profile (of which the SLI Profile is a subset) being there in the driver, created by nVidia.

I really hope you took the time to read what I just wrote for you. It will really help you have intelligent discussions on OCN about SLi with sounding utterly CLUELESS like you have on this thread

Quote:
"If you go back and read what I WROTE, I said microstutter is only NOTICEABLE at low FPS, I didn't say it only OCCURS at low FPS. Learn to read, dude."

"I was just getting 400+ fps on guild wars and getting micro stutter. is that above 30? "

Didnt I just say I was getting over 400 frames per second and still noticed microstutter? I think your brain has a micro stutter dude. Stop replying without reading.

I honestly read 1/3 of your post, seen you repeated the same nonsence and were ignorant enough to respond without doing any research. Please show links or stop the incorrect information.
AFA microstutter goes, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that you cannot see the microstutter at 300fps. Maybe you can. But it's generally accepted (and my personal experience confirms) that it's primarily noticeable at lower FPS.

In lower frame rates[note 1] when this effect may be apparent the moving video appears to stutter, resulting in a degraded gameplay experience in the case of a video game, even though the frame rate seems high enough to provide a smooth experience.

Here's a VERY in-depth article about the subject of microstutter. If you read through the whole thing (which you won't) you'll discover that there's HUGE variability in the whole phenomenon, but the ONE thing that they seem to take as axiomatic is that it's mainly a noticeable problem at lower fps. Here's an excerpt from the conclusion:

Micro-Stuttering
It does, in the strictest sense, exist. It can be a true deterrent from a good gameplay experience ... however, the cases when that happens are already plainly bad: you need to be performance choked in order for the bulk of inter-frame deltas to shift towards being greater than 25 ms, which is the truly obnoxious zone. So, technically, if you're at 20 FPS due to rendering constraints, and not some sort of framerate cap, on a dual-GPU solution, micro-stuttering will be a big problem, but being at 20 FPS is a far greater problem in itself. Where would a single GPU solution be? Low teens? We'd like to reiterate that, if you're in that zone with a high-end single-GPU, going multi-GPU won't save you: don't do it, you'll just frustrate yourself. <snip> We've seen that once performance is good, it becomes a non-issue.
Edited by brettjv - 4/9/11 at 5:33pm
    
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post #29 of 72
And if you prefer the tldr version of this post, here it is:

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of SLI if you think that games 'support' or 'don't support' SLI.

The deciding factor in terms of 'SLI support' is whether or not the driver has a profile for the game, and if it does, that the settings in the driver that configure the operation of SLI (i.e. the subset of the Game Profile that is the SLI Profile) are set correctly for that game.

This misunderstanding you have, thinking that SLI is primarily a 'game-driven' phenomenon, is leading you to misinterpret many of the observations you've made while you've been using it.
    
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post #30 of 72
Any games that can leverage SLI for performance generally supports it.
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